Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 03:01:47 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #481 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. JRs seminar (Rudy Timmerman) 2. RE: Street attack (Master Mark Seidel) 3. Re: Old Time Training (foxdragon@cuttingedge.net) 4. RE: credentials (Master Mark Seidel) 5. Chayon-Ryu (Michael Falba) 6. RE: Heavy Bag Wear and Tear (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 7. Honor and Stuff - Craig (Brian Beach) 8. High Kicks do work, sometimes! (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 9. Role Model (SEXTONR003@hawaii.rr.com) 10. Where are the (KMA) others? (d.mchenry@juno.com) 11. Re: High Kicks do work, sometimes! (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 01:08:58 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] JRs seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JR writes: > We have just secured the dates for the 20th International HapKiDo and > Korean > Martial Arts Seminar, which will be held IN IT'S ENTIRETY at the > Jackson > Southwest Hotel on March 5th - 7th 2004. I urge all NKMAA members to reserve this date and meet me there. There are some great training sessions, and you can meet loads of good people:) Sincerely, Rudy W. Timmerman, Chief Master National Korean Martial Arts Association --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Street attack Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:34:36 -0500 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Effective street fight needs surprise, speed, multiple strikes (hand and foot) or simultaneous blocks and strikes. Stay in a submissive non threatening stance or walk until the attacker is close enough for you to land simultaneous kicks to the foot/ankle, shin and groin while striking the throat nose and eyes. All of these blows should occur within 10 seconds. If there are multiple attackers avoid the middle, keep attackers on the outside striking the closes one to you first, then use the first attacker in a choke hold as a shield, when the time is right let them fall and go after the next one should they still decide to stay around. Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Lynde [mailto:jlynde@diligence.com] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 12:32 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Street attack A voice from the shadows whispers... it depends... :D Happy Halloween, y'all!! Jer, Hapkido Beginner At 12:00 AM 10/31/2003, Rick wrote: >To all martial artist: > > I have read from past emails that high kicks are not recommended in a >street attack. So then, what 5 initial moves and where would you suggest are >the first pre emptive strikes against an attacker on the street? > >Thanks Rick >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 06:34:30 -0600 From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Old Time Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:53:09 -0500 > From: Rudy Timmerman > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Old Time Training > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >"SNIP" In closing, I wish the folks who are heading > North a safe journey. Don't get hurt on the way, I'll take care of > that when you get here:) > Rudy If anyone want to prepare for that dip in Lake Huron, cold showers don't help. Rudy! Snowballs if ya got em! Donna --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] credentials Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:35:52 -0500 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You can write to the WTF they will answer you in about 10 days, you can try e-mail as well. If you are a Master you can call by phone but be prepared to speak fluent Korean. Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy -----Original Message----- From: Mario Bertacco [mailto:taccomc@sonic.net] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:39 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] credentials I am looking to verify credentials on a Master in the World TKD Federation, is this information posted anywhere online? Does anyone have an email address for this Federation? thanks Mario --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Falba" To: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:09:15 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chayon-Ryu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Bruce: >"....If it is Korean... why is it a Ryu?...." Not Being an authority on why GM Kim Soo did what he did, you may read his website at: http://www.kimsookarate.com/ Might as well get the information from the source. I can only convey my own experiences and personal opinions. I'm not an official spokes person for Chayon-Ryu, just a humble practitioner. >My guess is that there are some things I am just not going to be able to >get past and perhaps the need for folks to continually recombine material >so as to report inventing a "new" art is probably one of them. Its not the >use of "ryu" to identify a Korean art, or the mixing of technology for >various arts or traditions. I am simply having a hard time understanding >why a "New" art needed to be invented. Would it not have sufficed to >simply train in some tradition, say TSD for instance(TKD+HKD+Chuan Fa+ >Shotokan Forms?), and then represent oneself as teaching TSD albeit with a >somewhat modified approach? Why, especially need it be a new art? IMHO, As far as I can see there were many different teachers or styles of Martial Arts which were part of GM Kim Soo's training, and instead of practicing say "ITF Style" or "WTF Style" or only Hapkido, etc., why not continue to practice them all, and pass all of them on to your students? He decided to call it Chayon-Ryu, his personal choice. After all, before there was large governing organizations to over see different styles of Martial Arts, these arts and fighting styles were each autonomous passed on from teacher to student, father to son, in many different dojangs all completely separate from one another. Has governing organizations improved the quality of Martial arts practiced? Does the animosity between the ITF and WTF improve TKD? Does the chaos with in a governing organization (take a look at where the ITF is today, or the USTU) help the Martial art which it over sees? We all have to answer these questions for ourselves. >BTW: Is it known how GM Kim Soo selected his particular set of techniques >and why they were structured in the order that they are? My Master's Master was a Korean man, Master Moon, who was part of the Korean Military. His training came from General Choi Hong Hi. You can see him in the 1st edition of Choi's book , Tae Kwon-Do on page 161 doing a double flying side kick. When Master Moon came to the US after much searching he chose GM Kim Soo as his teacher (Master) here in the US. Master Moon later moved to New Orleans trained my instructor who trained me. As far as I know the structuring was passed on from Master to student. I'm a couple of generations removed from Master Kim Soo. I can't tell you why he structured it the way he did, I've never met GM Kim Soo, I just train under his curriculum taught by his student's student in a different state. >BTW#2: As long as I am revisiting old themes, perhaps this would be a good >time to ask, yet once again, with such a steep performance expectation >from White to Black Belt 1 & 2, where exactly does one go from that point. >What is left to significantly differentiate 3rd dan from 2nd or 4th dan >from 3rd.? There's more and I understand that if I practice daily for the next two years I could possibly reach 2nd Dan at the end of that time period. Part of the test is to demonstrate everything you have learned up to the point where you are. All forms, Hapkido techniques etc...then all of the new stuff follows. The test takes several days. There is more knowledge believe me. There are more ITF forms and more WTF Forms as well as Chaun Fa, and Shotokan Forms, fighting techniques, etc. The breaks for 2nd Dan at my Dojang are: Flying Twisting Kick Roll Down Kick Double Flying Side Kick - two separate boards Down Punch Through Concrete As one progresses there are more techniques to learn but the differentiation between Dans also seems to comes from practice to refine and use the techniques plus the added knowledge of new forms and techniques. To me (my opinion) all Martial Arts are the same. They are a "Way Of Life" dedicated to the preservation of life, health, honor, integrity, etc. The paths to the top of the mountain may be different but the goal is the same, to reach the top, enlightenment, so to speak. Be it TKD, TSD, Muy Thai, Karate or Tibetan Gopher Tossing, etc, the goals are the same and as a Martial Arts Practitioner I respect them all. I chose Chayon-Ryu to be the curriculum under which I practice. It works for me, I absolutely love it. You chose what you did and I respect that as well. Best wishes back to you! Mike --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:44:43 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Heavy Bag Wear and Tear Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Vincent: I was trained as a GUP student and beginning Dan using one of those heavy canvas bags. My instructor highly emphasized the importance of conditioning the weapons that you carry with you at all times for self-defense (hands and feet). At first it was hard to move the bag with any significance using hand techniques and kicks but after prolonged usage I was able to "dent" it pretty good and really started to rattle the chain for which is was hanging by. Later I would visit other dojangs and work out. There they would have those nylon and water-filled bags put out by Century. Yes, those bags are nice if you don't care to do any conditioning and wish to have a bag that is easier to kick around in order to be impressive to everyone watching, plus they make a loud smacking sound when hit with the top of the foot during a roundhouse kick, but if developing the hands and feet to withstand the rigors of actual self-defense and to build up leg muscles through resistance of the heavier bags, I would stick with the canvas bag if I were you. But, that's just my opionion. When I took over my present dojang from a fellow Dan back in '00, he had one of those water-filled bags. The VERY first thing I done on the day I took over was take it down and put up a 100lb canvas bag. The students had never seen a canvas bag before. I do not allow my younger students to kick/punch it. They use the body shields and focus pads. Only adult students are allowed to use it due to obvious reasons. Yes, times change and society places sooo much emphasis on safety these days but I refuse to give up my punishing canvas bag. When I was 3rd - 1st Gup, a fellow Red belt and myself used to have contests to see who could put the most blood stains on the bag during punching drills from time to time. Still got the scars, but wouldn't trade that training for nothing! Take care. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV http://www.gtkda.com Member: United States Korean Martial Arts Federation (USKMAF) --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:46:47 -0500 From: Brian Beach To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Honor and Stuff - Craig Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FGP - F***ing Great Post On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 08:12 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Hope that makes sense. This random rant on honor was brought to you > by the > letter H. Check your heads. Nice - Sesame Street reference --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:14:30 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, rterry@idiom.com CC: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] High Kicks do work, sometimes! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net High Kicks do work, sometimes! Ray Terry I agree with your comment that high kicks do work, sometimes. I do not know of any full proof techniques that work all the time. If there are such techniques than we all should just learn them. If you have any, please share them with me. You do not know me, but you seem to believe my success was due to being "very lucky." If you define very lucky as the intersection of opportunity, hard work and proper preparations than I agree with you. If you view it like a game of chance than I do not agree. If self-defense is nothing more than a game of chance than we all should stop training and just take our chances. Having said that, I do not believe you view it as a game of chance. You also stated " Or you're one of those rare special people that can kick high in jeans, or similar pants, when their muscles are cold." It appears to me by your comment than you may not be a big kicker; so let me respectfully add a few comments. During my high school and college days, I worked out all most everyday including stretching and practicing my high kicks so kicking cold was not difficult at that time. My youth was also a big help. As you probably know, the human body can quickly rise to maximum performance in a threat or dangerous situation. One’s heart beats faster, adrenal starts flowing and ones alertness increases etc. when they believe an attack is imminent. Considering all these factors, it was easy for me to perform high kicks. I also believe that health people, who regularly stretch out and practice high kicks, can perform high kicks when they believe an attack is imminent without warming up. As for the clothing, I do not recall precisely what kind of pants I had on, but it would not have been skin tight jeans. I do not recall any problems with my pants. In general, I believe most restrictive clothing would just tear and not stop the kick. I guess if your pants did restrict the height of the kick than the result would be lower kick. In any case, thanks for letting me share my opinions. Cheers John --__--__-- Message: 9 From: To: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:45:43 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Role Model Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> That's what's known as a positive role model! Randall Sexton www.SextonsHapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:47:25 -0600 From: d.mchenry@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Where are the (KMA) others? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net David: "Folks, this is why GM Timmerman has the reputation he does. I've never been to one of his seminars, met the man, talked with him, or even exchanged emails with him. We come from completely different KMA lineages, and he is by far my senior. Yet this is how he treats me." Yup - I've attended some of his seminars, I've met him, I've talked with him, and exchanged emails, and we come from entirely different martial arts - and he was no different. Even before I ever knew him, he had posted somewhere about an instructor program he had. I wrote him and asked him about it, and unselfishly (took a little while, he was moving) he sent me and shared some material he had on his instructor program. He didn't know me from anyone, yet he spent the time and effort (and didn't forget over time) to help me in my questions and went above and beyond. There are a hand full of outstanding individuals I've met like this, and Grandmaster Timmerman is definitely one of those few whom I'm glad to have had the opportunity to be able to get to know and associate with. Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] High Kicks do work, sometimes! To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:49:30 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net [snip] > Considering all these factors, it was easy for me to perform high kicks. I > also > believe that health people, who regularly stretch out and practice high kicks, > can > perform high kicks when they believe an attack is imminent without warming up. Umm, ok. > As for the clothing, I do not recall precisely what kind of pants I had on, > but it would not have been skin tight jeans. I do not recall any problems > with > my pants. In general, I believe most restrictive clothing would just tear > and not stop the kick. I've only been kicking for 30+ years, but I doubt I can rip my Levi's all that easily. Esp when my muscles are cold. IMHO, it is far easier to block a kick to the head than it is to block a kick to the knee or the common peroneal (outer thigh). So... we kick to the knee or outer thigh. When they drop to a knee (or both knees) THEN kick them in the head. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest