Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:46:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #488 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Charles Richards: What is TSD? (George Peters) 2. Australian TKD Seminars/High Kicks (David Ozanne) 3. Re: USOC to the USTU (Kevin Hostelley) 4. In 3 moths black belt (gaby noufaily) 5. Re: Dan Certification programs (Rob Frankovich) 6. RE: Use of Kwan Jang Nim (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Doju_Stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Judo-USA Judo vs. USJA (was: Re: [The_Dojang] USOC to the USTU) (Jeremy Anderson) 9. GM Rim (Amed Hazel) 10. Hapkido Lineage (Amed Hazel) 11. GM Lim, Hyun-Soo (Chris LaCava) 12. AAU Taekwondo Newsletter November 2003 (fwd) (Ray Terry) 13. Training (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:20:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Charles Richards: What is TSD? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir: In your post you describe a type of TSD I am not familiar with. In my studies, I have always been taught that all the power always comes from the waist no matter how obvious or unobvious it may seem, even in the naihanji hyungs. The last mentioned ARE difficult to transmit power from the waist in, but that is one of the primary reasons for doing them. As is the Song of the Sip Sam Seh, all the power comes from the waist.(I inquired in a post in askance for an author to the "song" and no one even ventured an acknowledgement that there even exists such a thing). GM C.S. Kim teaches that all power must come from the waist or the technique is not executed correctly. This is perhaps one of the main attributes that makes TSD unique. Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "David Ozanne" To: "Dojang Digest - Submissions" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:27:36 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Australian TKD Seminars/High Kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all. David Ozanne here. I constantly hear of and see these posts about TKD and other martial arts seminars in America. I have never, to date, heard of a martial arts seminar being held in Australia. Does anyone know a way of finding out, or even better, if there are any upcoming martial arts seminars occuring here? On the high kicks, I believe it is up to the person. If you are defending yourself, your aim would be self-preservation would it not? So if you can do these kicks cold, by all means do it. However I would rather do something like running my boot hard down someone's shin, following with an uppercut/knee to the head. This you can do cold and it works every time... Regards, David Ozanne P.S. I now have a punching bag and to everyone who posted on my topic, thanks, as all your advice helped a great deal ! --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:26:30 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Hostelley Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] USOC to the USTU To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry wrote: >Not sure anyone commented on this when it came up >before.?. Any former >or >current Judoka here? Does USA Judo (usjudo.org) have >their own Dan >cert >program or do they just go through the Kodokan? I believe the Dan certification happens through the two Class A members of USA Judo: USJA and USJF. I know that rank from any of these groups is recognized by the others. ===== Kevin Hostelley --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "gaby noufaily" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:07:38 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] In 3 moths black belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KHF gave me the Email of a hapkido master in Korea to study with him, I contacted him he told me that in three months training intensively with him 8 hours everyday,even if I have not previous experience in martial art I will get a black belt from him, a certificate from his school and a KHF certificate and an instructor certificate also. I was surprised to hear this because I know how much time someone need to work hard and intensively, to master a technique. I asked him  are you going to teach me all the belt requirements or a part of them, he told me 70 to 80% of the techniques, and if you train hard with me you will be able to teach in your country.I asked him also what people would say if they knew that in 3 months I got a black belt,did I train in a martial art school or a business school or a store? he told me that he understand what I am saying and I have to trust him,I have to train hard with him,and after to train hard in my country, I have to go every year to korea to study with him or try to bring him to my country to make a seminar....I would like from you to advise me and tell me if I can invest my money to travel to korea and to study with this master( responsible in KHF) thanks in advance.gaby ------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:08:56 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Frankovich To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dan Certification programs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > All, > > Of all the serious and valid criticisms the OSOC > raised I was struck by the > following: > > > 6. An adherence to the Kukkiwon certification > process and a failure to > develop a U.S. Dan Certification program. > > This would appear to be one mighty can of worms. > Does any other major > martial art's organisation in the US, particularly > judo, have a US dan > certification program?? > Best wishes, > > Andrew Pratt Andrew, I don't know if you'd consider the AAU as a major martial arts program (the Taekwondo program has 14,000+ members) but it has a Dan program that has been in exsistence for over 5 years - I only joined 5 years ago and haven't looked to see when it first developed. Rob Frankovich MN AAU Taekwondo Chair www.mnaautkd.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:24:29 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Use of Kwan Jang Nim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anthony, The fact that most Koreans equate kwanjang nim with head of an art may reflect the fact that this is the terminology Moo Duk Kwan, the largest traditional kwan, as well as other kwans used. In other words, there is only one KJN in a Tang Soo Do org, and that is the leader. Danny Dunn <<<<<>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:37:16 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Doju_Stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Anthony: ".....As an aside, the average person I ask also still thinks of a kwanjang-nim as being the head of an art rather than the operator of a martial arts school......" I may be splitting hairs here but is there a way of differentiating between a person who is the head of the art and a person who is the head of a school under that art? For instance, GM Ji is considered by many to be "doju" and using your definition the correct Korean term could be "kwanjangmin". Is there a particular title that would be used for an individual who heads a school under the Sin Mu Hapkido system? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:07:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Judo-USA Judo vs. USJA (was: Re: [The_Dojang] USOC to the USTU) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All, Interesting. I thought the USJA was the NGB for American Judo. Has this changed recently, or have I always been in the dark? Jeremy Anderson. --- Ray Terry wrote: > > 6. An adherence to the Kukkiwon certification process and a failure > to > > develop a U.S. Dan Certification program. > > Not sure anyone commented on this when it came up before.?. Any former > or > current Judoka here? Does USA Judo (usjudo.org) have their own Dan cert > program or do they just go through the Kodokan? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:09:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Rim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce I guess I have to agree with you to a degree but cannot say that the rank was just handed out but earned, in a manner that we rarely see here in the US. Training here, for many of us, is 3 nights a week at 2 - 2 1/2 hours a pop. I feel sure that GM Rim trained at a schedule that was so much more time intensive. I do not know what his training schedule was, but as a student of GM Choi, but I am sure that one year of his training would equal more than one year of training for some of us here in the US. I think most of GM Rims student could care less about rank. I came to GM Rim with rank in TKD and TSD and after a few minutes with him on the mat I was ready to give up my rank and humbly accept the white belt that he gave me. I miss my white belt and I wish he would let me wear it sometimes. We have had some high ranking martial artist come to our Dojang but only the crazy seem to stay. Our training is extreme as stated by some. Some high ranking Hapkidoist have come looking to keep their rank only to be shown first that they need a white belt. These higher ranks are embarrassed to train with yellow belts and find that they are not as advanced. GM Rim told me once that he had to make the training easier here in America because he didn't want trouble. He said someone might get angry and want to fight. He also stated he trained 6 days a week 2-3 times a day. I wouldn't want to train that way now. As for his rank and how he got it is not for me to say but in my opinion he deserves it. I can ask almost any student in our Dojang what is GM Rim's rank and they couldn't because he just wears a black belt. I asked him one time about and he said belts don't really mean anything to him. Any errors found on the web page are probably mine and I accept responsibility. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:33:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Lineage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net a.) Chang, Chin Il seems to have the high ground as he was promoted by Choi Yong Sul and is apparently the only person to have a 10th dan from Choi directly. b.) Kim, Yun Sang takes second place as one of the few 9th dan awarded by Choi, but got his Doju from the widow of Chois' son, Choi Bok Yuel. c.) Lim, Hyun Soo gets an honorable mention for maintaining the Choi art for the longest time period, 22 years, without getting a "doju" of his own. I wonder how that worked? GM Rim told me that Choi said if you want to learn true Hapkido to learn it from Chang, Rim or Lim ( is GM Lim who Todd Miller and Chris Lacava train with because he was looking at a picture that Chris sent me at the time) --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:52:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Lim, Hyun-Soo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce S. << Lim, Hyun Soo gets an honorable mention for maintaining the Choi art for the longest time period, 22 years, without getting a "doju" of his own. I wonder how that worked?>> Todd Miller could probably answer this better than I could, but my opinion is that GM Lim really didn't care about that. He trained and taught. That's what he did and he was happy doing it. It's nice to be the "grand pooba" and all, but when someone argues about being called a title, that shows me the only thing they're trying to do is help boost ego and/or profits. Call me old fasioned, but to me a title is a show of respect that is earned, not expected. _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:00:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] AAU Taekwondo Newsletter November 2003 (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings! Here is your AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for November 2003. AAU Taekwondo competitions feature both Olympic and Point sparring, and traditional Taekwondo forms, including WTF, ITF, and TSD/MDK forms may be performed. For more information visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org In This Issue: *AAU Holds Senior Black Belt Test *USOC Votes to Decertify USTU *Terry Gautraux Honored With David G. Rivenes Award *AAU Meets PATU *AAU Team Trials *AAU Annual Meeting Update *Tournament & Events Schedule *AAU Holds Senior Black Belt Test On October 22, 2003, masters Giambi, Blair, and Friello traveled to Waldorf, MD to sit on the first Senior Black Belt Testing to be held in a long time. Messrs. Singleton, Shellman, and Holmes, all of Kentucky, tested for 6th, 6th, and 5th Dan respectively, while native Scott Fiorillo tested for his 5th Dan as well. Results to be posted in about two weeks. * USOC Votes to Decertify USTU On Saturday October 18 the USOC unanimously voted to decertify the current National Governing Body for Taekwondo--the USTU. The complete process should take about six months. The AAU Taekwondo Program is taking immediate action to smoothly handle what is anticipated to be a large number of former USTU athletes looking for a new home. *Terry Gautraux Honored With David G. Rivenes Award Congratulations to Terry Gautraux who has been awarded the 2003 David G. Rivenes Award. The award is presented annually to the individual who is being recognized for dedicated service to the National AAU Taekwondo movement. A 5th degree black belt, and bronze medallist at the 1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona, Gautraux is serving as the 2003-2004 AAU National Tae Kwon Do Team Women’s Coach. *AAU Meets PATU A meeting was held on Saturday morning, October 22nd, between Mr. Friello, National Sports Chair, Mr. Rick Blair--National Chief referee, and two distinguished gentlemen from the Pan-American Taekwondo Union; Master Steven Dring--PATU's Executive Director, and Master Chuong Pham--International Referee par excellence and overseer of most PATU Sanctioned events. The topic? AAU Official's Program and how PATU may help the AAU develop the kind of Official's Program it has been building towards these past several years. In other official news, an initial Official's Certification Clinic for just the AAU Clinic Administrators has been tentatively scheduled for early December with another to follow shortly. *AAU Team Trials 2003-2004 AAU Team Trials were successfully held in Las Vegas on Sunday, October 12th. The newest National AAU Team Members and the results of the day's competition can be found on the AAU Taekwondo Web site at http://www.aautaekwondo.org *AAU Annual Meeting Update The National Sport Committee held its' Annual Meeting on Friday, October 10th in Las Vegas in conjunction with the National AAU Convention. Many changes to the Program were adopted including the expansion of the 14-17 year old Black Belt weight divisions from 8 to 10 in order to match the international standard. "The decertification of the USTU as the NGB will hold many opportunities as well as challenges for our program over the next twelve months," says National Sport Chair Mike Friello. "It is the intention of the AAU Taekwondo Program to take full advantage of both." "Much needs to be done in the immediate future to guarantee our continued success," Friello adds. "Changes are being made to our National Official's Program to insure that we have both the quantity and quality of officials that our athletes, both old and new, deserve. Additional days are being built into our national events in order to insure that they remain the epitome of sound tournament management that has shaped this Program." "We are in the process of expanding both the training and competition opportunities afforded our National Youth and Adult Teams in order to take this aspect of the Program to the next level." *Tournament & Events Schedule November 15, 2003 2003 Georgia AAU Taekwondo Fall Classic Rhodges Jordan Park Lawrenceville, GA Registration Deadline November 10, 2003 For Information contact Charles Minter 770-985-0050 info@minterkarate.com November 16, 2003 New Jersey AAU Freedom Cup Morris Knolls Regional High School, Rockaway, NJ Hosted by: East Brunswick Taekwondo Center Contact: Mr. Kevin Balon 732-254-1214 EBTC@juno.com February 7, 2004 KY AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Louisville, KY Contact: Rick Blair Rblairtkd@aol.com March 6, 2004 2004 Georgia AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Smyrna Community Center Smyrna, GA Registration Deadline January 10, 2004 For Information, Contact James Henry 770-975-9757 henrytkd@bellsouth.net March 27, 2004 Ohio AAU Tkd State Championship Thomas Worthington High School 300 W Dublin-Granville Rd. Worthington, OH 43085 For Information go to http://www.geocities.com/ohioaautkd Contact: ohioaautkd@insight.rr.com March 28, 2004 New Jersey Association Championship Morris Knolls Regional High School Rockaway, NJ For Information, Contact Kevin Balon 732-254-1214 Contact: EBTC@juno.com April 25, 2004 2004 Pacific Northwest Qualifier Spanaway, Washington For Information, Contact Ric Gordan 253-536-1146 rick.gordan@gsa.gov *Order AAU Merchandise Online Need an AAU coach's shirt, AAU patches, pins, ties, training videos, or gup rank certificates? Now you can order them online (no more printing out order forms). Just go to http://www.aautaekwondo.org And get all the things you need! *The AAU Taekwondo Web Site Can Help You Want news, AAU Dan Certification info, tournament results, AAU merchandise, club or individual membership registration, or just the phone number of your Sport Chair? Visit: http://www.aautaekwondo.org ************************************************************** *Special Introductory Offer Exclusively for AAU Members from Summit Flexible Products. Buy 50 or more CardioFlex(tm) or CardioFlex Twin martial art mats and get tapered safety edge strips FREE. Call 888-FOR-MATS or email: summitinfo@aol.com ************************************************************** The AAU Taekwondo Newsletter is brought to you by the AAU Taekwondo Program at http://www.aautaekwondo.org Edited by David Mazor dmazor@comcast.net --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:34:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > earned, in a manner that we rarely see here in the US. Training here, > for many of us, > is 3 nights a week at 2 - 2 1/2 hours a pop. I feel sure that GM Rim > trained at a schedule that was so much more time intensive. It is fairly typical to hit the dojang for training five or six days a week in Korea. 3 to 5 days a week is more typical here in the US. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest