Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:39:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #489 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: In 3 moths black belt (Ray Terry) 2. Attendance at seminar (J T) 3. GM Rim (Stovall, Craig) 4. Seminars (Ray Terry) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Good_Attitude?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_GM_Rim?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Congratulations (Rudy Timmerman) 8. RE: Bruce's questions on TSD (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Looking for Master Moon (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 10. GM Bok Man Kim (Gero Grandisch) 11. hangul terms (hellcat) 12. Correction! (Todd Miller) 13. Kicks vs. sweeps (Ray Terry) 14. hapkido concerns (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 15. Judo Certification (FirstPe315@aol.com) 16. Exploring the term "Martial Art" (jmchie@wideopenwest.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] In 3 moths black belt To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:39:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > saying and I have to trust him,I have to train hard with him,and after to > train hard in my country, I have to go every year to korea to study with > him or try to bring him to my country to make a seminar.... $$ making scam. Stay clear, imho. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:50:17 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Attendance at seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "For the record, I was wrong when I said that on 45 had shown up for day one of the Florida seminar - it was about 60. According to my source at the event, the number dropped to 45 the second day and 30 the third." Which may explain why they were none too happy about teaching. I spoke with a gentleman from Korea and he said that GM Oh was told or at least was expecting 120 participants. With respect, Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:45:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Rim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Now THAT is an example that we all need to follow. Some more than others. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:56:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On the topic of seminars... Getting 50 or 60 to attend a weekend seminar is doing very well, esp for the first one scheduled. Not sure why/how anyone would be crazy enough to think they'd get 100 or more to show, esp at the price quoted. But... I'd say they did well, as well as anyone should expect. I remain confused as to what makes people think they can simply announce a seminar and people will beat down the doors to attend. It takes time, years, to build up an event to be the size of Grandmaster West's event in Mississippi where two hundred plus people show-up on a regular basis. Start small, work hard, keep your price low and in a few years you might have an event that people will want to attend... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:47:21 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Good_Attitude?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Chris: ".....Todd Miller could probably answer this better than I could, but my opinion is that GM Lim really didn't care about that. He trained and taught. That's what he did and he was happy doing it....." A man after my own heart. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:56:11 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_GM_Rim?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ahmed: ".....We have had some high ranking martial artist come to our Dojang but > only the crazy seem to stay. Our training is extreme as stated by > some. Some high ranking Hapkidoist have come looking to keep their > rank only to be shown first that they need a white belt. These higher > ranks are > embarrassed to train with yellow belts and find that they are not as > advanced......" Somehow I got the impression that Marc Tedeschi identified GM Rim as a successor to Choi Yong Sul. I'm glad you cleared that up for me. What still remains is my curiosity about GM Rim and Marc Tedeschi. Is there a relationship there? Perusing his book I just found it strange the way folks were selected to give testimony regarding the art. For instance to me it made perfect sense to cite Dr. Kimm, and GM Seo and GM Lee. But then theres' an interview with Joe Sheya, which, to me would be like talking with me when you would really want to talk with the head of my style, GM Myung. Do you know what I am trying to say? In this same line I was also curious at the broad extend of kicking material in Tedeschis' book after hearing that GM Rim actually teaches very little kicking. No offense to GM Rim, but I would have thought that if Tedeschi were to illustrate this approach to Hapkido arts he would have cited more people along the lineage of Ji or Myung or Han. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:42:36 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Congratulations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mary writes: > My son and I started TaeKwonDo 6 months > ago, my life was being a military wife when my husband died in an > accident at > FT. lewis WA. On the 25 of October my son and I tested and received > our > orange belt what a feeling, I realize that being a white belt was like > learning to > crawl and now we are learning to walk and falling a lot. Hello Mary: What great news that you are doing so well. Congratulations on your promotion! Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:55:02 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Bruce's questions on TSD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, If I can jump in here I will give you my $.02 worth. I think I wrote last that I really didn't see a lot of soft until after 3rd dan. That may not be accurate overall, but it probably remains true of the hyung for the most part. If you look at any of the books you will see detailed descriptions of all TSD's hard blocks. But you have to remember that those are the basic techniques and the focus with the basic techniques is first and foremost developing effective power and the ability to use it. But there is a dichotomy taught after the initial basics. 1) I will make you hesitate to send your weapon at me. (hard reaction) 2) I will redirect your technique to set up my own preferred counter-attack. (Hard or Soft, depending on follow-up) At lower ranks, this comes more from one-step sparring than from hyungs, although as Master Richards has alluded, these could be considered a type of 2-man form. As for open hand versus closed hand, the way I view it and teach it, everyone begins with hands closed. It protects the fingers from being broken. However, I expect everyone to be using open hands in sparring by the time they are cho dan. Not to say we don't use fists, but the weapon (whatever it is)is formed on the way to the target. And I think if you watch dans spar, you would not see much in the way of hard blocks. It is a waste of energy to keep executing hard blocks when you can redirect and position your opponent for a finishing technique. Although, this too is somewhat limited in sparring. Another note here is that we point spar in tournaments, but I consider this a game. We always free spar, ja yu dae ryun, in the dojang, with contact. The initiating motion of most of our blocks is circular, so it is just a matter of how much force you put behind them. As for Chinese influence, consider TSD double knifehand block. Our chamber is from ribs to shoulder with the lead hand and the rear hand is inverted at the waist as opposed to some of the other methods of chambering this block from Karate and taekwondo. The power generation is different from other blocks in that the torso moves in a circular motion as a unit to generate the power and motion. Now, rather than considering just the basic explanation of this technique as a powerful block, consider adding a little footwork and doing the block softer to redirect and grasp the wrist while continuing the same circular motion to engage the rear hand to lock the opponent's joints. Or to the inside, consider the same motion continued directly into a throw. Danny Dunn <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:32:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Looking for Master Moon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have noticed while being a member of the DD, that there are a few individuals on this list that currently live and train in Korea. I was stationed in Pan Mun Jom from '93 - '94 as part of the JSA. We were trained by a Master Moon who used to come up across the Imjin River from Munsan to train us. Does anyone over there know of this man? If so, I would like to know what his full name is/was, rank, if he's still there, etc.?? Thanks to anyone who can assist. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gero Grandisch" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:30:39 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Bok Man Kim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, when it comes to "lineage" I hear a few names around General Choi mentioned a lot. I have a book from the late 1960īs written by GM Bok Man Kim, who now teaches at a tiny place in Colorado. Seems he spent many years developing Tae Kwon Do with General Choi, and promoted KMA all over the world since the 1950īs. Can you tell me "where" he falls in the lineage and why so little is heard about him? Cheers, Gero _________________________________________________________________ Localiza y ponte en contacto con tus antiguos compaņeros de clase en MSN Compaņeros. http://mipasado.msn.es/ --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:32:12 -0800 From: hellcat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hangul terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, I've enjoyed reading the discussions on the board, as an 8th gup the information is insightful and educational. I'm trying to find the hangul for backwards as in a retreating back kick. Also the term for workout partner. I believe in Japanese this person is called an Uke and there is a whole ethic to go with it. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Respectfully, Ariana Burns Paradise Ridge TKD Club of Shining Mountain TKD --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:59:39 -0500 From: Todd Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Correction! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > a.) Chang, Chin Il seems to have the high ground as he was promoted by > Choi Yong Sul and is apparently the only person to have a 10th dan from > Choi directly. This is incorrect, Chang, Chin Il was promoted to 9th dan along with GM Lim and GM Sang. He then claimed 10th dan status for some reason? Maybe because Choi asked him to unify Hapkido in America! Todd --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:42:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicks vs. sweeps Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > me it made perfect sense to cite Dr. Kimm, and GM Seo and GM Lee. But then > theres' an interview with Joe Sheya, which, to me would be like talking > with me when you would really want to talk with the head of my style, GM > Myung. Do you know what I am trying to say? In this same line I was also > curious at the broad extend of kicking material in Tedeschis' book after > hearing that GM Rim actually teaches very little kicking. The "kicks" that are shown/taught in Sheya's HKD videos are really sweeps, not kicks at all. I guess this should not be surprising from a style that remains close to Daito-Ryu JuJutsu. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:58:53 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido concerns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< 1.) Should truely traditional Hapkido have kicks, or not? >>> Personally, it really does not matter to me if a 'traditionalist' in hapkido practices kicks or not. We practice all the kicks, simple because I like jumping kicks and really low kicks, sweeps, etc., and my wife likes high kicks. Some day I will no longer teach them. I will be to rusty. But last year someone should me a film of Choi Young Sul doing a twist kick with a wrist out turn in the favor that Master Whalen enjoyed throwing Jack and his others around a few years ago at the big Jackson events. 3.) Without the kicking material, Hapkido is very much like Daito-ryu AJJ to which some lay claim. Mmmmm. Well, when I studied Daitoryu, we practiced several kicks, but all simple ones and the shin was always level with the ground. Then in the late 90's when I first went to Master West's dojang in Jackson, I saw them practicing the same kicks, and I had realized I found an old style of hapkido. Whenever someone touches an art they ad something to it. If they do not put the time in rank to understand it thoroughly, and simply declare this or that technique not practical, they do not ad to the art, in fact, they damage the art. If we do not save it and teach it all, who will? Just some thoughts and opinions..... Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:06:58 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Judo Certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray- It is, as with so many things, that I may be wrong but I believe that USJF and USJI (US Judo Federation and Judo Institute respectfully) rank members through the Kodokan. I have my Judo rank through them. I believe that USJA (Judo Association) does not rank through the Kodokan. Then there are many independent Judo people with Kodokan rank who can individually certify their students through the Kodokan. The only MAJOR reason to belong to one of the above organizations is if you are interested in Competition. You will then need to be a member to compete in their sponsored events. And they sponsor almost all of them. Jeff In a message dated 11/5/2003 6:01:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Not sure anyone commented on this when it came up before.?. Any former or > current Judoka here? Does USA Judo (usjudo.org) have their > own Dan cert > program or do they just go through the Kodokan? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: jmchie@wideopenwest.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:18:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Exploring the term "Martial Art" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was reading through Dr. Kimm's big book of Kuk Sool and thinking about the recent discussion regarding the term martial arts. I am starting to agree with Grant Watson who wrote on Sunday that "Asian Fighting Art" might a a more appropriate descriptor for what I am studying. One of the things Dr. Kimm did in his short history of Korean "martial" arts was to list the types of things one learned while training in "martial" arts in earlier times. For example, in his description of Hwarangdo (I know this isn't new to most people on the list but bear with me), students learned hunting and fishing in addition to the hand-to-hand, swordsmanship, and archery arts. His description of the martial training that was revitalized in 1592 included not just physical training such as long jumping, high jumping, hurdling and swimming, and not just healing arts, and not just battle or military strategies, but also meteorological skills. In training in our "martial" arts, I have never had a class with my Hapkido instructor that emphasized skill at assessing and predicting the weather. We talk occasionally about weather--such as snow or rain--that might impact execution of technique, but nothing more expansive than that. What jumps out at me time and time again, here and in other historical records, is the different types of mental skills and learning that were expected of students of those times. Usually also classic literature is listed as a study area for martial arts training. I do equate this with today's American military. Whereas a martial artist of Korea circa 1600 might have had to have been multidisciplined regarding his skills at war, modern militaries, and the specialization of knowledge, have broken those skills that once had to be in the hand of one man into skills that are spread out over thousands. There are specialized troops that do assess the weather and others that convey that information to the troops that need it. It is true IMO that a meteorologist for the Army is more of a martial artist than any of us. So when I boil it down in my head (an actively ongoing process) I don't like the term martial arts as it applies to what I study. I think if what you are focusing on is practicing and maintaining the hand-to-hand and weapons techniques of your art as they were once performed, then the best term would be "historical fighting art", and only parts of one such art at best. If the focus of your training is self defense then you might say instead that you are learning a "self defense system" since that will less likely involve traditional weaponry. Strange as it might sound, the groups IMO that best fit the term "martial artists" outside of the military are private militia groups that train underground with illegal weapons, learning survival tactics and guerrilla warfare. There is little doubt in my mind that the military and private militias are both the ideological heirs to the systems and arts we study. I would be very interested to hear of instructors or systems of those who subscribe that teach or are learning broader martial skills from their instructor above and beyond what Americans have traditionally viewed as "martial arts", i.e. hand-to-hand combat, weapons demonstration, physical conditioning and history of the art. Jim McHie Jr. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest