Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #490 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Seminar (J T) 2. Re: orange belt (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 3. Re:Choi's early students (Beungood@aol.com) 4. RE: Power from the waist... (Eric Walker) 5. Australian TKD Seminars (Bernard Maginnity) 6. surgery tomorrow/Thur (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Australian TKD Seminars (Ray Terry) 8. Looking for old Master Instructor (Eddie Urbistondo) 9. Quick Hapkido Rank (United HapKiDo Academy) 10. Hapkiyusul (Barrie Restall) 11. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Can_I_get_a_clarification=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 12. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 13. Hapkido quick rank has occurred all along (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 14. Fine points of Naihanji (Charles Richards) 15. clarification (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:55:25 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It could have been a assumption on the side of GM Oh. Perhaps they were thinking every KHF member would show up or at least have of them would show up. Who knows how they got their number? Again I don't know if he was told that would be the attendance or if he just expected it to be that way. With respect, Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 2 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:21:45 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: orange belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net our > orange belt what a feeling, I realize that being a white belt was like > learning to > crawl and now we are learning to walk and falling a lot. congratulations to you both! sounds like youve been having a great time together :). take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:53:55 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Choi's early students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 11/5/03 7:58:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: You folks have been great about the information! Many, Many thanks. I am sure that with so much passed so quickly maybe people are beginning to see how some of this comes together, yes? Here is some of the information I have pulled together. There seem to be a few people in the running for the title of "doju". I have heard of another Aiki/Hapkido man that trained at the same time as Choi young Sul. Ive hard varying accounts that he was there longer or or earlier and then moved back to Korea and became a doctor. It was also said that he had Papers from the Daito leader ship attesting to his training. Anyone shed some light on this? Jack --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:17:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Power from the waist... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Peters wrote; "Good Sir: In your post you describe a type of TSD I am not familiar with. In my studies, I have always been taught that all the power always comes from the waist no matter how obvious or unobvious it may seem, even in the naihanji hyungs. The last mentioned ARE difficult to transmit power from the waist in, but that is one of the primary reasons for doing them. As is the Song of the Sip Sam Seh, all the power comes from the waist.(I inquired in a post in askance for an author to the "song" and no one even ventured an acknowledgement that there even exists such a thing). GM C.S. Kim teaches that all power must come from the waist or the technique is not executed correctly. This is perhaps one of the main attributes that makes TSD unique. Respectfully, George" I've always been taught that power in hand strikes should always come from the waist or hips and the legs. I would not think that this is unique to TSD. I would assume that this would simply be a fact of body mechanics. I'm not familiar with TSD of the forms involved, but I contend that true power in hand striking must at least originate from the legs and hips, any thoughts on this? Eric --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:54:16 +1100 From: "Bernard Maginnity" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Australian TKD Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello David There are a few ways to find out about TKD and MA seminars in Australia. The first point of contact would be locally published magazines such as Blitz, Australasian Taekwon-do, Budo etc. These sometimes have seminars advertised in them especially if they are 'open' seminars. The articles in these magazines can also give you a clue. If you read about a master who has visited or someone who has held a seminar previously, you can contact these people or their organisation and ask if they have any upcoming guests or events. Next you could check out different organisations web sites as they sometimes mention upcoming events. Aside from asking, networking is the best way of finding out. Meet martial artists from other styles and ask if they have anything coming up or have heard of anyone else who has. I found out about two seminars last weekend that way and also heard about some taekwon-do seminars that were held in Queensland recently. Perhaps some of the Australians on the list could post if they have any seminars coming up that would be open to interested Martial Artists? I hope this helps Hope you are enjoying your new bag. Kind regards Bernie Maginnity -----Original Message----- Hello all. David Ozanne here. I constantly hear of and see these posts about TKD and other martial arts seminars in America. I have never, to date, heard of a martial arts seminar being held in Australia. Does anyone know a way of finding out, or even better, if there are any upcoming martial arts seminars occuring here? NOTICE The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Mission Australia has implemented anti-virus software, and whilst all care is taken, it is the recipient's responsibility to ensure that any attachments are scanned for viruses prior to use. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:19:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] surgery tomorrow/Thur Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Going in for shoulder surgery tomorrow/Thursday. This is my third, but I only have two shoulders. Wonder what is going on here... :) The list may be slow for a day, two at most. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Australian TKD Seminars To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:24:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I constantly hear of and see these posts about TKD and other martial arts > seminars in America. I have never, to date, heard of a martial arts seminar > being held in Australia. Does anyone know a way of finding out, or even > better, if there are any upcoming martial arts seminars occuring here? Stay tuned in here. List member Geoff Booth will no doubt keep the list informed of the seminars hosted at his Aussie Hapkido dojang. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:31:55 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Looking for old Master Instructor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hope someone on the list can help with this. I am looking for my first Taekwondo Instructor. His name is GM Li Duk Koong. He owned the World Black Belt Academy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida from 1979 - 1982. His style of TKD is Jidokwan. I believe he left Florida for the US Virgin Islands. He should be a 9th Dan (he was 8th dan in 1979) and around 63 to 65 years old. If anyone can help please e-mail me privately. Thanks. Master Urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "United HapKiDo Academy" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:26:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Quick Hapkido Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, I'm a Hapkido instructor from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm a 1st Dan with 8 years training and I know that I have a lot to learn as a Hapkido practitioner. But I'm happy that Master J.R. West has giving me the opportunity to run my school as a young Black Belt. And for this I'm grateful to him and the USKMAF. But the real reason for this letter is to expose another Hapkido character who is a 7th Dan and he is not even 30 years of age. His name is Chris Garland and he also runs a Hapkido School in Nashville. Mr. Garland contacted me three months ago and he told me he was a 6th Dan and I wanted to know more about him and I found out that he had a cover article in TaeKwonDo Times saying that he was DoJanim Ji's shadow and when this article was posted I believe he was a 5th Dan. How can this be possible? If you will like to find out more about this person you could go to his website www.jinjungkwan.com I just was curious for an answer and I'm not trying to be disrespectful to nobody. Thank you for your time Mr. Joseph Corchado, Nashville, TN www.unitedhapkido.org --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:35:09 +1000 From: Barrie Restall To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkiyusul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks, Dj Kim Yun Sang teaches Hapkiyusul not Hapkido; he distinguishes between the two. The curriculum he received from DJ Choi Yung Sul has 16 strikes and 16 kicks. He says Dj Choi told him he learnt the kicks from Takeda. DJ Kim Yun Sang's main aim is to preserve and teach the curriculum he was taught. On the length of time to attain rank, the Australian student with DJ Kim has trained twice a day, 6 days a week for 18 months and has a first degree black belt. Kind regards, Barrie Restall --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:06:43 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Can_I_get_a_clarification=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: ".....> a.) Chang, Chin Il seems to have the high ground as he was promoted by > Choi Yong Sul and is apparently the only person to have a 10th dan from > Choi directly. This is incorrect, Chang, Chin Il was promoted to 9th dan along with GM Lim and GM Sang. He then claimed 10th dan status for some reason? Maybe because Choi asked him to unify Hapkido in America!......." Ok, so can we get this cleared-up? Did Chang Chin Il get a 10th Dan or not. Did he get it from Choi Yong Sul or did he award it to himself? I thought someone said this event was covered on Korean TV (or did I get that mixed up with someone else?). If Chang wasn't awarded a 10th dan by Choi then I guess Choi had no 10th dans, yes? Giving a title to oneself doesn't count. At least we know that he awarded 9th dans, even if we have some quibbling about exactly who got them from Choi and who just....well....got them. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:16:34 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Danny: "......As for open hand versus closed hand, the way I view it and teach it, everyone begins with hands closed. It protects the fingers from being broken. However, I expect everyone to be using open hands in sparring by the time they are cho dan. Not to say we don't use fists, but the weapon (whatever it is)is formed on the way to the target....." I had pretty much assumed everything that you reported but didn't want to draw any conclusions until someone who actually practices the art verified my hunch. The result is that as a person works their way up through the ranks they gradually transition to a comfortable use of the open rather than closed hand. BTW: This is one of the problems I have with Dr. Yangs' TAN TUI version as I think there is WAY too much use of closed hand for the nature of the techniques. Now, I DID find an interesting bit of technical curiosity as I delve deeper into the form. Some folks on the list may be familiar with the breathing form "TENSHO" organized by Sensei Miyagi of the Goju-ryu tradition. I have noticed that the open hand moves of some of the passages of the TAN TUI material seems to reflect open-hand motions found in TENSHO. Just a bit of curiosity. Along with this I notice that some patterns where one might reasonably find an openhand technique, the hands are closed in Yangs version and I wonder if this is his White Crane background coming through. BTW#2: Does anyone know if similar modifications were made in the Shaolin Chang Kwon form that TSD uses? It would help to know if changes were made in comparing it to Long Fist material as the search continues for finding the original form. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:33:40 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, rterry@idiom.com CC: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido quick rank has occurred all along Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry stated: "In all fairness, quick rank has occurred all along.  ...... e.g., in 1968 Choi Yong-sul promoted Ji Han-jae and Lee Joo-bang to 8th Dan. Gm Ji would have been 32, JB Lee in that same age range....... but 30-something year old 8th Dans is not really a new event..." It was also noted the GM Rim was also promoted very quick to 6th dan BB. My questions are: Has GM Ji followed the same standards and promoted good students to 8th dan in their early 30's? Has GM Rim followed the same standards and promoted good BB students to 6th dan in 6 years? I am also interested to know if they raised the standards for promotion to such dan levels after their airplane ride to the USA. Thanks John --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:44:34 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fine points of Naihanji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Good Sir: In your post you describe a type of TSD I am not familiar with. In my studies, I have always been taught that all the power always comes from the waist no matter how obvious or unobvious it may seem, even in the naihanji hyungs. The last mentioned ARE difficult to transmit power from the waist in, but that is one of the primary reasons for doing them. As is the Song of the Sip Sam Seh, all the power comes from the waist.(I inquired in a post in askance for an author to the "song" and no one even ventured an acknowledgement that there even exists such a thing). GM C.S. Kim teaches that all power must come from the waist or the technique is not executed correctly. This is perhaps one of the main attributes that makes TSD unique. Dear George, Sort of...In Naihanji the toes remain straight ahead....BUT in certain motions the waist is rotated seperate from the lower torso...a different type of power generation, but a waist rotation nonetheless....I should have clarified that naihanji (in these motions) is laking the harmonious muscle addition of the lower torso (for rotation) like say rising defense or "roundhouse"/turning kick. Thanks for keeping the dialouge going. Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:58:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] clarification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Ok, so can we get this cleared-up? Did Chang Chin Il get a 10th Dan or > not. Did he get it from Choi Yong Sul or did he award it to himself? I > thought someone said this event was covered on Korean TV (or did I get > that mixed up with someone else?). The MA expo and promotion event with Ji, Lee and Choi in May 1968 was apparently coverd on Korean TV. Perhaps this is the coverage to which you refer. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest