Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:42:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #491 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. 10th Dan (Troy Charsley) 2. Is there any hapkido magazine (gaby noufaily) 3. Hapkido workout (Todd Miller) 4. Surgery for Ray's third shoulder (A. Boyd) 5. Re: Why is it a "Ryu"? (Jye nigma) 6. RE: RE: Power from the waist... (Master Mark Seidel) 7. TSD FIne Points (Charles Richards) 8. shoulder surgery (michael tomlinson) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Seminar?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. New issue of the Korean Journal (autumn 2003) (Ray Terry) 11. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chois_early_students_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 12. Chin Il Chang Video (Chris LaCava) 13. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Power_from_the_waist?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Fine_points_of_Naihanji?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 15. RE: Power from the waist... (Lasich, Mark D.) 16. power generation in Naihanji (Wicker, H. Keith) 17. Re: 10th Dan (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Troy Charsley" To: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:16:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] 10th Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A while back, I remember reading an article in a MA magazine about a rash of people claiming 10th dan status. An interviewee in the article (I can't remember who) pointed out that he never wants to be promoted to 10th dan because it would mean he was dead. The article said that traditionally, a 10th dan is presented in memoriam to honour someone's life contributions to martial arts. After browsing over a number of comments about people with (or claiming to have) a 10th dan rank it makes me wonder. Is it a true tradition to honour someone in memoriam with a 10th dan rank? If so, isn't claiming a 10th dan rank disrespectful to those that truly deserve the honour (in death) for their lifes accomplishments? Regards Troy Charsley --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "gaby noufaily" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:22:14 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Is there any hapkido magazine Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Nowadays we see that there is a lot of magazines talking about martial art like taekwondo,kungfu,karate,aikido,grappling but we have never seen a hapkido magazine,that talks only on hapkido. Does anyone know any hapkido magazine? thanksgaby ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP spam with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 06:20:50 -0500 From: Todd Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We will be holding a Hapkido friendship training session here at our Dover, NH location on Sat. November 15 from 10 - 12. It is open to all. There will be NO charge for this and the only catch is that I would like to focus on all our similar movements and techniques. Any school owner will get a chance to share a few techniques with the group. If anyone needs hotel info let me know. Take care Todd Miller Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Association --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Surgery for Ray's third shoulder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All the best on Thursday, Oh Grandest Poobah of the Internet. We'll be thinking about you. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:52:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Why is it a "Ryu"? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No Koguryu isn't Koga. Koga was a location in Japan next to Iga. Jye --- Ray Terry wrote: > Kogu-ryu or Koga-ryu (Ninjutsu) or Koguryu? Not > sure that Koguryu > [Koguryu kingdom (37 BC to 66 AD)] is the same the > Ryu of Kogu... is it? > > Manchu-Ryu.?. don't find anything on that. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Power from the waist... Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:05:28 -0500 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I concur all power is genesis (beginning) from the movement of the waist in concert with the muscles of the arms and legs depending on whether it's a kick or strike; but also from Ki origin which is 3" below the navel, still close to the waist. It was once described to me as the waist being the trigger the leg the barrel and the foot the bullet. Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy -----Original Message----- From: Eric Walker [mailto:ericules@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:17 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Power from the waist... Mr. Peters wrote; "Good Sir: In your post you describe a type of TSD I am not familiar with. In my studies, I have always been taught that all the power always comes from the waist no matter how obvious or unobvious it may seem, even in the naihanji hyungs. The last mentioned ARE difficult to transmit power from the waist in, but that is one of the primary reasons for doing them. As is the Song of the Sip Sam Seh, all the power comes from the waist.(I inquired in a post in askance for an author to the "song" and no one even ventured an acknowledgement that there even exists such a thing). GM C.S. Kim teaches that all power must come from the waist or the technique is not executed correctly. This is perhaps one of the main attributes that makes TSD unique. Respectfully, George" I've always been taught that power in hand strikes should always come from the waist or hips and the legs. I would not think that this is unique to TSD. I would assume that this would simply be a fact of body mechanics. I'm not familiar with TSD of the forms involved, but I contend that true power in hand striking must at least originate from the legs and hips, any thoughts on this? Eric --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:07:19 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD FIne Points Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> The result is that as a person works their way up through the ranks they gradually transition to a comfortable use of the open rather than closed hand. <> Enter the black sheep of Tang Soo Do, At Moja Kwan, we teach soft parry from day one along with side stepping. At the intermediate/advanced levels we work towards slipping and parry to trap transitions. Of course, having spent a great weekend with GM Timmerman, we might use a "soft" palm parry to explode your elbow :-) But as Master Dunn says, one approach is to "punish" the agressor for sticking a weapon in your personal space, neh? I have been teaching open hand parry's from day one for 4 years now. FWIW we have had no finger injuries. We do place a big focus on safety and progressive sparring. White belts start by "playing tag" Yellow Belts spar hands only, Orange Belts spar hands only then feet only and Green Belts free spar. BTW#2 I think my clarification is on another DD#, but yes, yes, yes...True power is generated from Chun up through the legs, Dan jun and out the end of the weapon. This happens even in the toes ahead no waist pivot motions in Naihanji, and can actually be more powerful than you think because of the strong connection to Chun in a proper Naihanji posture. Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojkakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:03:58 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] shoulder surgery Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Good luck with your surgery and I hope all goes well for you. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:11:16 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Seminar?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeremy: "..... Again I don't know if he was told that would be the attendance or if he just expected it to be that way....." I have been musing on this since both Rudy and Ray made their statements about the process of developing an event. I also think this speaks to the mindset that we are dealing with versus the population. By this I mean that if one reduces the KMA to a simple marketing issue, then it would follow that you would simply advertise and they would come. Think of it along the lines of the latest Hollywood release. All you do is get enough hype going and people will come to the event out of pure curiosity. The trick is that this only really works for folks driven by image or novelty. For those folks who are involved in actually learning a skill, gathering information, networking with other knowledgeable individuals, simple name- dropping won't work. Let me use myself as an example. If I had gone to Florida and sat on a mat for a couple of hours to hear someone speak me to death after paying an exorbitant amount to get in I would have been pretty teed-off. I can only imagine that my irritation would have grown to find that whatever historic experience was touted was subsumed under an exclusive after-hours dinner and some photo-ops. By comparison, I have been to seminars with GM Myung, Rudy Timmerman, GM Ji and JR West and have spents hours on the mat, polishing material I know or learning new material---- with them--- on the mat---- for one helluva lot less. Photo-ops were a possibility but always an after-thought and the gentlemen I have mentioned made themselves available to EVERYONE, regardless of rank, throughout the event. Now, I'll say it yet one more time to the folks reading this.... IMVVHO if people want to see the quality of Hapkido improve then you need to "vote" with your training dollars. There ARE people who are doing good stuff and they need to be supported. Visit their websites, find out when they are in the neighborhood and make to their events. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:36:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] New issue of the Korean Journal (autumn 2003) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net New issue of the Korea Journal (autumn 2003) has published. This issue features two special topics: cyberculture and North Korean refugees 1. Emergence of Cyberculture in Korea Over the past ten years, information technologies, such as the Internet and cellular phone, have become popularized in South Korea at an unprecedented rate. The following statistics fully demonstrate the alarming level of informatization in South Korea: 32 million mobile phone service subscribers, 26 million Internet users, and 10 million households with broadband Internet service. The autumn 2003 issue of the Korea Journal examines the process of cultural transformation, focusing on the phenomenon of cyberculture. Although cyberculture cannot be separated from the existing "real space" culture, it is possible, when relying on the concept, to gauge the cultural impact of the Internet or cyberspace on South Korean society. Narratives on cyberspace are susceptible to hype, and articles in this issue are not an exception. But since all of authors critically examine some aspects of cyberculture using their own theoretical frameworks, readers will be able to find sophisticated and systemic analyses that cannot be found elsewhere, especially in the mass media. Leo Sang-Min Whang (Psychology, Yonsei Univ.) Online Game Dynamics in Korean Society: Experiences and Lifestyles in the Online Game World Chang Pilwha (Women's Studies, Ewha Womans Univ.) Cyberspace and Sexuality Lee Insook (Education, Sejong Univ.) E-Learning in Korea: Its Present and Future Prospects Kim Hyunhee (Sociology, Hanshin Univ.) Consumption Culture in Cyberspace Baek Seung Ik and Kim Byoung Suk (Business Administration, Hanyang Univ.) Virtual Organizations in Korea Yun Young Min (Sociology, Hanyang Univ.) An Analysis of Cyber-Electioneering: Focusing on the 2002 Presidential Election in South Korea 2. North Korean Refugees in China: Their Life and Suffering as Border-Crossers This issue also addressed the topic of North Korean Refugees in the Chinese-North Korean border, under the title of North Korean Refugees in China: Their Life and Suffering as Border-Crossers. Since the issue of North Korean refugees has been closely connected to the human rights in North Korea and China, an issue of frequent concern in the West, a multi-layered, thoughtful analysis must be offered to approach to the problem. While keeping the delicate political and diplomatic problem at a distance, each of the three authors, who conducted collaborative field research in the region, explores the structural factors of the border-crossing, describes the situation facing the North Korean refugee, and suggests the future tasks for them, using anthropological methodology. Pak Sunyoung (Anthropology, Seoul National Univ.) The Growth Status of North Korean Refugee Children in China Chung Byung-Ho (Anthropology, Hanyang Univ.) Living Dangerously in Two Worlds: The Risks and Tactics of North Korean Refugee Children in China Jang Soo Hyun (Anthropology, Kwangwoon Univ.) Living as Illegal Border-crossers: Social Suffering of the North Korean Refugees in China 3. Article In addition, this issue contains an article focusing on the mother/daughter relationship found in Bak Wan-seo's two novels, Namok (The Naked Tree) and Eomma-uimalttuk (Mother's Stake). Woo Eunjoo (Literature, Ewha Womans Univ.) Mother, Living Things Change!: The Korean Mother/Daughter Conflicts in Namok and Eomma-ui Malttuk. Korea Journal Tel: 82-2-755-6225 Fax: 82-2-755-7478 Home page: www.ekoreajournal.net --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:37:54 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chois_early_students_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jack: "..... Anyone shed some light on this?....." Honestly, Jack, I wish we could. So far everything has turned up a distortion, misrepresentation or dead-end. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:53:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chin Il Chang Video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce S. < To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Power_from_the_waist?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Eric: "......I'm not familiar with TSD of the forms involved, but I contend that true power in hand striking must at least originate from the legs and hips, any thoughts on this?....." Like you I teach the same thing. The conflict that I run into is that most people when they execute a technique with the shoulder girdle they tend to focus their effort there. The challenge is trying to use the shoulders and hips as an integrated single effort of the body. Folks doing a technique such as a single or double leg sweep have an easier time since that is the area one is using most. My sense is that the abdominals and obliques were understood to be massive contributors to technique effectiveness generations ago even if the MA of old didn't really know them for what they were. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 07:57:43 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Fine_points_of_Naihanji?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "......Sort of...In Naihanji the toes remain straight ahead....BUT in certain motions the waist is rotated seperate from the lower torso...a different type of power generation, but a waist rotation nonetheless....I should have clarified that naihanji (in these motions) is laking the harmonious muscle addition of the lower torso (for rotation) like say rising defense or "roundhouse"/turning kick....." Just as a passing thought..... Your explanation addresses why I did not make a big thing out of that book that I mentioned a while back. You may remember that I mentioned that someone had written a book advocating a novel way to chain the three Naihanchi kata together. This was part and parcel of that authors' position that many of the moves had more to do with grappling than with blocking and striking. It DOES make for interesting reading. However, I have long believed that the focus of the kata--- at least biomechanically-- - was in mastering enlistment of the abdominals and obliques in executing techniques. The sidewards movement IS combat effective in its own right, however more importantly (at least in my book) is that the muscles of the lower abdomin, back and pelvis are used and conditioned in a way not seen with standard back and forth linear movement. What would be fun would hit the lab sometime and wire a person up and compare, perhaps a couple of the Pinan Kata to a couple of the Naifanchi kata to bear this up. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:27:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Power from the waist... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW: For the ATA practioneers out there, the power from the waist/hip concept correlates, I believe, the concept of external generation of power vs. the internal generation of power concept. This is why at the gup level the concept of full chambers is emphasized (external generation of power), while at the dan level the single arm action introduced. The generation of power, at the dan level, comes directly from the hip action (internal power). This is not to say gup material should not generate power through the hip, but is certainly promoted at the dan level. Consider Shim Jun, after the spin hook kick, the low block, inner forearm block, punch combination clearly demonstrates this. The real trick is loading the hip to help put the power into the technique, without affecting posture, balance, rhythm and flow of your technique/form. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:15:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] power generation in Naihanji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Charles Richards wrote "Sort of...In Naihanji the toes remain straight ahead....BUT in certain motions the waist is rotated seperate from the lower torso...a different type of power generation, but a waist rotation nonetheless....I should have clarified that naihanji (in these motions) is laking the harmonious muscle addition of the lower torso (for rotation) like say rising defense or "roundhouse"/turning kick." Master Richards, My understanding is that the "power generation" you refer to in Naihanji is "hip snap" (or "hip vibration") rather than "hip rotation" as in a reverse punch or roundhouse kick. Do I understand you correctly? Thanks, Keith Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF League City, TX --__--__-- Message: 17 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 10th Dan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:04:49 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > After browsing over a number of comments about people with (or claiming to > have) a 10th dan rank it makes me wonder. Is it a true tradition to honour > someone in memoriam with a 10th dan rank? If so, isn't claiming a 10th dan > rank disrespectful to those that truly deserve the honour (in death) for their > lifes accomplishments? Seemingly, in the last few years the Korean arts have followed the Japanese arts by accepting the 10th Dan. Prior to that, you are correct, 9th was the highest (for those in the Korean arts) for someone still living. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest