Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:05:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #493 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Black_Sheep_Squadron_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bad_Hair_Day=3F=3F=3F=3F=3F?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. 12th Dan (Ray Terry) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Surgery_Follow-up_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. (no subject) (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. TSD Power Generation and Niahanchi (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 8. Ray, Get Well Soon! (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Power/3 months-BlackBelt (Chris Holmes) 10. Koguryo (Burdick, Dakin R) 11. Wrist Grabs (Pat Montini) 12. Re: open closed fist (Michael Whalen) 13. Get well Ray (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 14. Re: back home (ncahoots@comcast.net) 15. Naihanji power (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:03:56 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Black_Sheep_Squadron_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "......Enter the black sheep of Tang Soo Do, At Moja Kwan, we teach soft parry from day one along with side stepping. At the intermediate/advanced levels we work towards slipping and parry to trap transitions....." I have introduced open-hand to some portions of the Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido hyung where it fits in discretely. There are palm blocks scattered throughout the 5 hyung, but the overall representation favors closed hand blocking. Now, for you followers of Okinawan influences the rule of thumb is suppose to be that a closed hand indicates a striking technique for concussive interpretation and a completed grasp for grappling interpretations. Using that, one could say that there is a helluva lot of grappling in the YMK hyung! :-) For my money, though, the use of the open- hand for deflection and redirection needs to be emphasized as much (or more) than hard blocks. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:20:39 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bad_Hair_Day=3F=3F=3F=3F=3F?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Chris: ".....My questions were if this video tape showed him receiving his 10th dan and him being the successor, why would he suppress the tape?...." I wouldn't pretend to speak for someone of Chang Chin-Ils' standing. It certainly would seem like a MA promoters' dream to have a legitimate investiture as the successor to Choi Yong Sul!! Imagine the commecial distance you could get out of that, with the key moment--handshake, bow, whatever--- plastered all over from here to kingdom come. Then, again, maybe commerce just isn't Changs' cup of tea. From what I have read he teaches a discrete group of students and keeps to himself. Sensei Angier (Yanagi-ryu) is the only recorded inheritor of a legit Japanese Ryu and he does the same thing. And I have to tell you, Chris, after the last 18 months, that looks like a pretty good approach to take to me. You may not realize it but people who take the forefront of managing an art or organization are accepting huge responsibilites and its easy to see not many people do it well. Maybe Chang figures if he can't do it up to his level of perfection, he won't do it at all. Maybe he figures he just doesn't need to hassle of having to explain or defend himself to every twit with an attitude trying to make a name for themselves. Who knows? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:37:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] 12th Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "..... Is it a true tradition to honour > someone in memoriam with a 10th dan rank? If so, isn't claiming a 10th dan > rank disrespectful to those that truly deserve the honour (in death) for > their lifes accomplishments?,,,," > > I think that started in Judo with the death of Kano. I believe Dr. Kano was promoted to 12th Dan after his passing. Yes? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:37:21 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Surgery_Follow-up_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: I hope everything worked out OK. I assume that they worked on the correct side---- and end of your body. Didn't leave anything inside, did they? You know its a bad sign when you rattle as you move. I was thinking that with as much advancement in using animal material in reconstruction, maybe now would have been the time to use the ligaments from a kangaroo's leg in that shoulder. Perhaps an extra-ordinary ability to raise and lower you arm might be of some advantage in your lonely hospital room after a sponge bath by a young nurse. Just a thought..... ;-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:48:55 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear George: ".....The org I belong to says to always have the hand in a closed fist, I will have to inquire why. Can you think of a good reason for this? I mean on all levels gup to dan....." Honestly, and at the risk of irritating TSD people who know more than I, no, I can't. What I have found is that the open hand can move faster, probably because the muscles in the forearm are more relaxed and balanced than with a clenched fist. There are many anecdotal references to closing a hand as a way of stopping Ki and is why many Hapkido arts teach "ki-ing out" when initiating a technique. I don't know from "Ki", I just know that my arms are more relaxed with my hands open. One common arguement is that people learn closed hand first to keep their fingers from getting broken in a fight. I don't know how many fingers get broken in fights. Certainly with fingers clenched they can't be grabbed, but then there is also something called a "boxers' fracture" that is very common when people hit with the unsupported part of the fist because they never learned to punch correctly. Seems like things could go both ways on that. Now, when I introduce my students to blocking we start with closed fists only because I want them focusing on large muscle motion to the block. Learning to keep an open hand firm but relaxed is a bit of a trick but not the huge leap that some might think. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:20:36 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Navarro posted: "I do not know about Anthony but I learned that the school ouner should be SabomNim." This is actually not correct Korean. School owner is Kwanjangnim and an instructor is Sabomnim. Example: In Korea, we called Kwanjangnim Kim, Kwanjangnim since he was the school owner, and Sabomnim Lee, Sabomnim, since he did most of the teaching. Also, you never refer to yourself as Sabomnim. I could say I'm a sabom, or I could sign Burrese, Sabom (or Kwanjang) but you do not use the nim for yourself, it is an honorific used only for others as a sign of respect. Also, I do know school owners that prefer to go by the title Sabom rather than Kwanjang. Just a little Korean lesson for the day, since I'm still trying to improve my understanding of the language. With a baby coming soon that we will raise bi-lingual, it will be even more important for me to become fluent in the language. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:27:27 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Power Generation and Niahanchi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Richards, I also like slipping to the outside and breaking the arm with a palm strike. <<<<<>>>>>> Bruce and Keith, I think you have a pretty good understanding of the power generation in Niahanchi. The hips are used in a small way to transmit power from the legs, but the motion is small and to me it feels like a small rolling wave. The abdominals and obliques are also very important in both timing and strength to develop maximum power in these forms. I believe that you would find a lot of difference in use of the abdominals and obliques in someone who has just begun understanding the power generation in Niahanchi and the use of the same muscles in other forms. I would hope you would not find a lot of difference in higher dans. Because proper breathing and use of the abdominals and obliques should come from integration of what one learned in one form and has applied to everything else. <<<<<<<<<>>>>>> <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> Bruce, It is correct that there are a lot of grappling applications in the Niahanchi hyungs, particularly Niahanchi E dan. As I recall, you were talking about laying out a set of forms for your own use that included Niahanchi Cho Dan. I believe that Niahanchi Sam Dan, at least the way we do it goes even further in coordination of breathing and abdominal and oblique use and timing than cho dan. <<<<<<>>>>>>> Last but not least, let me bounce something off all you guys on the way I visualize power generation. Draw an equilateral triangle with the base down. Make dark dots at the points of the triangle. Now Draw a line from the midpoint of the base extending through the apex point of the triangle and extending a little more than the height of the triangle. Now place a dot about 1/5th of the way down each side of the triangle from the apex on both sides of the triangle. Now outline a persons figure facing you around the triangle and line using the apex of the triangle as the Dan jun, the two lesser dots on the sides of the triangle as the hip joints, the two dots at each side of the base as the bottom of the feet, and the top part of the line to define the center line of the trunk and head. Now visualize the vertical line as being in the center of the body in 3 dimensions and the base line of the triangle as the ground. This will show how I visualize the importance of base or stance, legs in generating and transferring power, and the relationship of the hips with the waist and trunk in generating power. And you can clearly see how rolling or snapping the hips (both moving in opposite directions at the same time, move the waste and generate power to hand techniques. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:47:36 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ray, Get Well Soon! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I wish you a speedy and full recovery. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:17:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Power/3 months-BlackBelt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, First I would like to mention that coming from a Tang Soo Do background into Han Mu Do, it was difficult for me to comprehend the idea of generating power using the whole body as a coordinated unit. This idea of whole body movement took some getting use to. I now am conviced that Dr. Kimm has hit the nail on the head with the idea of getting your body to work in unison rather than as seperate parts. So I would try to focus on getting my whole body into the technique whether it is a kick, punch, throw or whatever... it works. As to getting a Blackbelt in 3 months I know I'm a low man on the totem pole but I would save my money and use it to train with a good instructor closer to home. For me that meant driving 45 miles in one direction 2-5 times a week. If you would tell the list where you live I'm sure someone can point you to a great instructor a whole lot closer than Korea. P.S. the offical Han Mu Do website should be up and running shortly. Chris Holmes _________________________________________________________________ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:18:19 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Koguryo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Khalkee@netscape.net wrote: >What's the interpretation of "ryu"? If you think that it's a purely Japanese term, then check out the old names of Kogu-Ryu and Manchu-Ryu ... Manchuria (Mongolia) and Korea, eh? Do you mean Koguryo? The Japanese "ryu" is spelled "yu" in Korean, so there isn't a connection there. Koryu in Japan means "old school" or "old stream." It isn't related to Koryo, the ancient name of Korea. And wasn't "Manchuria" derived from Manjusri-bodhisattva (Monju Bossatsu in Japanese), the Bodhisattva of Meditation or of Supreme Wisdom, the left-hand attendant of Shakyamuni Buddha? So I think you are mixing up three different words that sound similar in English. In reality, they don't have anything to do with each other. It is kind of like "shinken" which in Japanese means "spirit sword" but in German means "pig." It's like people in different countries have a different word for everything! [last bit stolen from Steve Martin] Jye nigma wrote: >I think where the difference lies is how ryu is written (at least in english) like "Koga-ryu", it isn't written together like Kogaryu. Actually, we can write either Koga-ryu or Kogaryu. Either is correct. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:29:32 -0500 From: Pat Montini Organization: Mount Gallitzin Academy To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Wrist Grabs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Friends, Outside of the dojang, I find it difficult to practice wrist grabs sololy. Does anyone have any suggestions as to practice wrist grabs, ie same side, opposite side grabs? Also, does anyone have any suggestions on how to help one develop the vertical jump? ie, jumps for the jump back kick, jump side kick? When I attempt these jumps, my height of jump does not give me space to execute the kick. Thank you for your time to read this Pat --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:07:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: open closed fist Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW: I was taught that all hand strikes start with a closed fist and if an open handed strike is intended it was opened only at the last moment before hitting the target. This combined with a "snapping" of the waist towards my intended target seems to have given me a lot more power and speed. michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:22:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Get well Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Best of luck on the surgery and the recovery Ray! Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: ncahoots@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:41:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] back home Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Glad the surgery went well. Heal quickly. Chuck Callahan --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Naihanji power Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Master Richards, My understanding is that the "power generation" you refer to in Naihanji is "hip snap" (or "hip vibration") rather than "hip rotation" as in a reverse punch or roundhouse kick. Do I understand you correctly? <> Most specifically, I am talking about what we have called triangle blocks, for lack of a "name" This happens in all three Naihanji when you 1) punch low with the right hand and "parry" across the body with the left. 2) Do a backfist with the right hand to the high rear and a hammer fist to the low left ending with 3) a backfist/jab (palm in) to the front with a palm down cover with the left hand. BTW this sequence is done a little different in Sho Rin Ryu, but most KMA's do it something like the above... The way I do it power is pulled up through the root and whipped through the danjun and out the ends of the hands (at least that's what I conceptualize). I don't have a name, but I gues Danjun catapulting would be close. BTW, this motion either looks very powerful and forceful, or like a bufoon's senseless snatching at air :-) Hope that helps, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest