Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:23:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #497 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Generating Punching Power (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Fort Wayne seminar with Master West (Jim McHie Jr.) 3. Old time training (Rudy Timmerman) 4. HKD video files (K. Barends) 5. Marines (Farral, Kim) 6. Master West Seminar (Farral, Kim) 7. Re: 12th Dan (Lasich, Mark D.) 8. KMA Documented History (Chris LaCava) 9. Veteran's Day (Wayne Watkins) 10. Re: open or closed hand/waist power (Todd) 11. 3s in Korean culture (Ray Terry) 12. Back from Fort Wayne (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 13. FW: For Veterans day... (Ray Terry) 14. Weapons (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:56:19 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Generating Punching Power Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George and Charles write: > I was quite interested in your post. I have been shown by friends > of mine who practice Chinese arts many times how the open hand is > faster than the closed fist, and have also observed many other > practictioners do as you stated. The org I belong to says to always > have the hand in a closed fist, I will have to inquire why. Can you > think of a good reason for this? I mean on all levels gup to dan. Hello George: I teach my students both closed and open hand techniques; however, I do show them that there is likely to be more speed in the open hand strikes because it allows the antagonistic muscles to relax. When making a clenched fist, you tighten the set of muscles that is used to move the arm forward AS WELL AS the muscles that pull the arm in. Thus, the two sets oppose each other causing some friction that results in loss of speed and fluidity. > 2. I have had some TSD players explain to students that a closed fist > during hyung shows focus and discipline. Many of us have a "lazy" fist > and often the rear hand will be loosely closed. Hello Charles: Like you, I also ride my students about the "other hand", because there is nothing that looks more sloppy than having the hand that does not do anything particular just hang around. In fact, it is one of the criteria I use to separate winners from those who do not place. FWIW. A while back there was also a discussion on having the waist originate power in strikes, and I have a simple formula I teach my students that sort of explains that theory. It goes like this: "Generate a whip like action from the largest joint to the smallest joint, in order, without interruption." I demonstrate this theory by giving an example of a simple backhand where you originate the slap by twisting the waist first, then the upper torso, then the shoulder girdle, then the upper arm, then the lower arm, then the wrist, and finally the fingers. All of these motions must be done in order to achieve maximum effect. Once you stop at any of these actions, you actually begin at that point which then negates the larger joints. I know this is probably as clear as mud, but it is a bit hard to describe even though it is easy to show. Sorry! Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jim McHie Jr." To: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:18:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fort Wayne seminar with Master West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I haven't seen a report yet from the Fort Wayne seminar, so here goes. It was my first seminar with Master West, and my first time visiting A W New Hapkido Academy. I drove 3 hours in and 3 hours back in the same day. Bottom line--when I got done I was sore, tired, and very happy. The sore and tired part came from my very excellent and patient training partners for the day, Dave Pryga and "Yuri" (please excuse the spelling if I am getting it wrong!). Yuri looks (and is strong like) like a blocking tight end for a D1 football team, which is exactly the kind of training partner I really like for two reasons. One, you have to be technically accurate or else the techniques won't work (i.e. if you try to muscle a technique rather than be technically precise he'll just stand there with a quizzical look on his face) and two, when he gets the technique right on you, you get to feel what it should really feel like. And Dave was equally excellent for a training partner. Very, very good with pressure points--an area in which I would certainly like to improve. So a hearty thanks to those two for putting up with me the entire day. I also have to say that I have been to seminars in the past where the host school has left a bad taste in my mouth for one reason or another. Certainly not the case here. As soon as I was in my gear and on the floor, several students came and introduced themselves to me; I felt very welcome. I had met a few students before who went to Master Timmerman's Chicago seminar in July. Speaking of Master Timmerman, there was an impromptu soft-break session in the parking lot just before the end of the lunch break. Sorry Master Timmerman, I was not able this time either to break a block. I believe I understand the form, I just have to practice. Several blocks were broken though by others. I am not a member of Master West's organization, or of any national/international affiliation, however I was pleased regading all the material shown at the seminar because there were many excellent nuances in the demonstrations that will be of invaluable assistance in refining my footwork and balance (an area I take much pride in of all my training) and also excellent variations of techniques whose principles I am previously familiar with so I will try very hard to incorporate them into my repertoire. Master West was on the mat and actively instructing most of the time, and circled the room while we practiced to continue to give advice. Very accessable. All of his assistants were excellent and available also. I am rather new at reporting seminar experiences to the list, so thanks everyone for reading. Also, a final bit of advice gleaned from the seminar--if you are ever riding with Master West, I heartily recommend raising your hand to ask for instructions before you attempt to operate any electronic equipment on the stealth van such as radios or video players. I don't know if it's a regular seminar bit or what, but why take the chance? I hope the group pictures taken at the end might be available by e-mail or over the web somehow; I would love to have a copy. Thanks again. Jim McHie Jr. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:36:24 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Old time training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wish to remind all DD members who are driving here to join me in a week long of "old time training" to drive safely. We've had about 6" of snow, and it is a bit on the slick side (no, the snow will not cancel the polar bear swim:). Be safe folks, especially those who are not used to driving in Winter weather. Take your time, and arrive alive. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "K. Barends" Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:24:14 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD video files Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Shameless plug :-) Just uploaded some new quicktime files of a recent HKD event in the Netherlands. For your viewing pleasure: http://www.hapkido.nl/index.php?mode=movie -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:34:10 -0500 From: "Farral, Kim" To: "Dojang " Subject: [The_Dojang] Marines Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Semper Fi Marines! >From a Squid... Remember...If it weren't for us...you wouldn't get where you need to be... PS: Marines are lousy tippers!!! The One and Only "TINK" ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:52:49 -0500 From: "Farral, Kim" To: "Dojang " Subject: [The_Dojang] Master West Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pil Seung... I, once again, had the pleasure of attending Master West's Hapkido seminar in Ft. Wayne...one year after the first as I was continually reminded...if any of you have an opportunity to attend one of his seminars...DO IT...you will not be sorry...it is not only a good time...it is also a great atmosphere to gain valuable knowledge...as well as sore wrists, and other body parts... Master Hilland will be sure to pair you with an Ideal partner if you need one...and I would like to say thank you to Master Hilland for pairing me with the only known Sequoia in the Midwest... And be sure to ask to see a technique demonstrated a second or third time...you will probably have the opportunity to have first hand knowledge of more than just the one technique about which you are asking... Thanks to Master West and all of his Very talented and adept Black Belts for a great seminar... Pil Seung The One and Only "TINK" ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:02:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 12th Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have heard that 9th Dan was the highest one could go for several reasons: - The number 3 is very significant in Korean culture, and 9 is 3x3, so is also significant. - The number 9 is the highest, single digit number. So as an individual, 9th dan is the highest you can go on your own journey. I understand that after death one can be elevated to 10th dan, as this is something that others bestow on you and not an accomplishment that an individual can achieve! For this reason, H.U. Lee of the ATA was elevated to Eternal Grandmaster, 10th Degree, after his death. This was not "given" to him by other members of the ATA, it was bestowed on him by various Masters from across the Korean martial arts......I believe there was even a little blurb in TDKT when this happened, and who was involved.......The number 9 plays very importantly in the ATA/Songahm Taekwondo philosophy. The following year his brother Soon Ho Lee was nominated for, tested for and received the rank of 9th degree, and Grandmaster of the ATA. There can ever only be one Grandmaster at a time within the ATA. So, is 9 as high as it goes for cultural/historical reasons, some arbitrary limit established by some organizations, or is 9 not really as high as one can go??? In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:08:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KMA Documented History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce S. <> Hi Bruce. Oh, I agree with you there, but my point is that this type of information is "documented history." So much of the documented information for Korean martial arts have been destoryed, lost, ignored, forgotton or made up. Even though some may not like the information presented, for one reason or another, it should still be available for people to know and to learn from. I feel this lack of documented information and is one of the major reasons why we, as a community, are in such disarray. Thoughts? Take care Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:10:08 -0600 From: "Wayne Watkins" Subject: [The_Dojang] Veteran's Day Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is the VETERAN, not the preacher, who has given us freedom of religion. It is the VETERAN, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the VETERAN, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the VETERAN, not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to assemble. It is the VETERAN, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. It is the VETERAN, not the politician, Who has given us the right to vote. It is the VETERAN, who salutes the Flag, who serves under the Flag, ETERNAL REST GRANT THEM O LORD, AND LET PERPETUAL LIGHT SHINE UPON THEM. I was out to lunch with a friend of mine who is a veteran. As we were eating he made a trip to the buffet line and on his way back he stopped to talk to a table of men in uniform. When he got back to our table he stopped our waitress and told her that he would pay for their meal. This was a small gesture but this may have been the only thanks these brave men ever get. Wouldn't it be nice if this became a usual thing to do instead of an unusual thing to do. Thank you to all you vets out there. Wayne Watkins Director Technical & Career Ed. Holmes Community College / Ridgeland 412 West Ridgeland Ave. Ridgeland, MS 39157 1-601-605-3313 wwatkins@holmescc.edu --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Todd" To: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:21:10 +1100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: open or closed hand/waist power Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Sometimes it's common sense, like you wouldn't want to punch the top of someone's head. But then it is because of chi penetration...You'd slap the top of the head to allow the chi to penetrate the skull. " Hi Jye, Having limited knowledge of the principles of chi flow/penetration, I was intrigued by your comments about chi penetration of the skull from an open hand vs. fist. Could you please elaborate on this subject or direct me to an appropriate book or website. Thanks mate, Todd - TKD downunder --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:32:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] 3s in Korean culture Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have heard that 9th Dan was the highest one could go for several reasons: > > - The number 3 is very significant in Korean culture, and 9 is 3x3, so is > also significant. It seems that once some Korean MAists left Korea they realized that they were being compared to masters in systems that had living 10th Dans. They simply decided to follow suit. A "reprint"... Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:26:54 PST Subject: the_dojang: 3 in Korean culture It was originally just explained to me that three was very important in the Korean culture because the number three was indicative of earth, man, and the heavens. But I wanted to find a little something more given that this view has been challenged by some in the past, so I went to the very interesting Korea Insights website (http://korea.insights.co.kr). An excellent resource on the Korean culture provided by the Samsung Foundation of Culture. One of the items documented there is "3 in Korea". The following is quoted directly: "Koreans have always had a special attachment for the number three. This sottae (graphic of a wooden post with 3 wooden ducks mounted on the top is omitted here), one of the many 'spirit posts' found at the entrance to rural villages across the country, is topped by three ducks, symbolizing prosperity and fertility as well as agrarian society's affinity for water. The number three has had profound significance since ancient times. Koreans have long believed that the harmonious balance of three elements -- the heavens, earth and human energy -- essential to all existence, and Koreans' affinity for the number remains powerful today." "Korean thought and religion is replete with threes, symbolizing completion and perfection. Tan'gun, Korean's mythical founder, was a triune figure, simultaneously a creator, teacher and temporal ruler. Buddhism centers around the trinity of the Buddha, his teachings and the Buddhist community. The number also figures prominently in folks belief. For example, when a son is born, the kumjul, or 'forbidding rope' hung across the gate of the house, is decorated with three red peppers and three pieces of charcoal." "In traditional society, children were expected to mourn their parents for three years after their death. Today most funerals are held three days after death, and three bows before the memorial alter are standard at rites paying homage to ancestors." "Much of Korea's traditional music follows a three-beat rhythm, and Korean food revolves around the three condiments: soy sauce, bean paste and red pepper paste. Many of the spirits found in folks religions come in threes, as do the decorations worn with the national costume, hanbok. In fact, it is difficult to find an aspect of Korean life that does not feature the number three." In addition, in the website's item describing "T'aeguk, the Supreme Ultimate. ... the three-part t'aeguk symbolizes the heaven, earth and humanity. Each part is separate but the three parts exist in unity and are equal in value. As the yin and yang of the Supreme Ultimate merge and make a perfect circle, so do heaven, earth and humanity create the universe. Therefore the Supreme Ultimate and the three-part t'aeguk both symbolize the universe." --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:35:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Back from Fort Wayne Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We had a great time at the Fort Wayne hapkido seminar this past weekend featuring Master West. A group photo is at http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/photos_1.htm. Master West brought several assistants including our own Mr. Wayne Watkins. Dr. Dave was also there along with Bill. Master West covered the gambit of techniques until time (and our energy) ran out. It was great seeing everyone again and I think the long distant record went to Mr. Pryga in Wisconsin. Jennifer and I stopped in Amish country on the way home to catch the lunar eclipse. It was cold but worth it. Thank to Mr. New for hosting this annual event. My students and I had a very enjoyable experience. If you ever get a chance to attend one of these get together while Master West is on the road, don't pass it up! Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com. PS. Bruce: I have your tape and the original. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:00:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] FW: For Veterans day... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding. This takes a little bit of time to load... But, it's entirely worth it... http://www.pressaprint.com/som/WeSupportU2.htm --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:25:00 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone asked what weapons are taught in TKD/TSD First, to the best of my research no weapons are core part of Moo Duk Kwan TKD or TSD. Various organizations teach different weapons and/or weapons forms. For Moja Kwan 1. Middle Staff (Jo) begining around 4th Gup. Using this two handed weapon, I hope, helps gup's understand the relationship between the um and yang hand. It also developes the forearm and upper body muscle definition. 2. Dando (Dagger) for adults begining around 2nd Gup. The 12 lines/angles of attack and basic parries. Basic knife defenses. 3. Kum (Sword) for adults begining around 1st Dan. Proper respect, drawing, cutting, cleaning and sheathing. This weapon requires an extreme attention to detail and accuracy. It also developes the forearm and upper body muscle definition, along with right hand grip strength. 4. Rope is incorporated as a practical can find anywhere weapon as my skills increase we add more to the kwan tool box. Although first introduced to these techniques by Master James Allison, we have seen Tang Soo Do folks, Dr. Kimm, GM West, GM Timmerman, and Master Booth teach excellent sessions on this weapon. Generally incorporated with advanced gup level in a limited fashion. 5. Stick and/or stick and knife. Incorporated at advanced gup level, youth do not learn bladed weapons. The two man escrima forms teach great accuracy, hand-eye coordination, timing, rhythym and yes require the waist rotation to be effective. The majority of our material comes from GM Hodder and Master Terry. This also falls into my "possible to find in most environments" category. 6. Ji Pangi (Cane) is one of my favorite weapons as it can be legaly carried anywhere, and has some very simple to learn motions that are very effective, along with the more advanced techniques. Again I was first introduced to this weapon by Master James Allison, but have seen TSD folks (Master William Strong), Master Whalen, and a few others teach this weapon. I understand in many styles of Hapkido this is a 4th or 5th Dan weapon. I don't have it in the Moja Kwan system as I am not proficient at all with it, but I think it would be great 5th Dan material. In general, we don't teach one man forms with weapons, just how you might use that weapon in battle (two man forms). And the weapons training, like with sword is used to enhance other common principles. The overall focus is on weapons (except for the sword) that could be carried or found in everyday surroundings. Hope that helps. Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest