Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:03:07 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #498 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Rank, organizations and such (ABurrese@aol.com) 2. Bruce Lee...Myths and Facts (Stovall, Craig) 3. Re: Re: open or closed hand/waist power (Jye nigma) 4. Re: Bruce Lee...Myths and Facts (Jye nigma) 5. Re: Weapons (Jye nigma) 6. Han Mu Do (Steve Kincade) 7. Hap Ki Do (Rudy Timmerman) 8. Breaking (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Hapkido interest (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 10. Fort Wayne Seminar (Hapkido Self Defense Center) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:32:54 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank, organizations and such Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With a lot of the controversy regarding different organizations, rank, etc. I began thinking about a few things. I wonder why people care so much about what rank they have, and what organization or person gave that rank. Yes, I understand the sense of pride one feels when accomplishing something of significance, and achieving a black belt or higher in a martial art is a significant undertaking, worthy goal, and something to be proud of. However, too many people’s self-worth is directly related to their organizational affiliation and certificates on the wall. This happens in many walks of life, and unfortunately, the martial art community as well. Think of your rank right now, no matter what style you study or organization you belong to. Now think of others that have the same rank from the same organization in the same style. Chance are, some of these people with the same rank are better than you in some areas, and others with the same rank are not as proficient in some things as you are. This is natural. Now if you go outside your style and organization (which I’m assuming here teaches the same curriculum) you find that people with the same rank have skills and abilities that vary to extremes. And then you can top all of this off with the fact that rank and organizational affiliation have nothing to do with one’s ability to fight or defend themselves. I’ve had people question my fighting ability based on the Hapkido rank I hold. Hmmm…. What the heck was I doing fighting in those bars during my military years without a black belt? Hmm… Black belts that have been stomped by people with no formal martial art training should have won right? Fact is, rank in a martial art does not necessarily relate to one’s fighting ability. Especially the real high ranks. Heck, do you really think a 70 year old grandmaster can fight as well as a young 20 some year old that is in the best shape of his life? Sure, the 70 year old has tons of knowledge, and probably can still hold his own to a degree, and the person would be great to learn from, but as we age we lose physical abilities, it’s just a process of time. High rank does not always mean a better teacher either. There are those with high rank that cannot teach that well. So it really does go by individual to individual and you can’t tell just by looking at a certificate on the wall. So, what the point of all this? First, don’t get hooked into the trap of thinking that rank and organizations are everything, and definitely don’t place your self-worth in them. Be confident of who you are, what you can do, and where you are going. Don’t get caught up in the my rank is higher than your rank, my organization is better than yours, and in the politics related to this. Do concentrate on developing relationships with your instructors and others along the path so that you can help each other grow and martial artists and human beings. Do focus on becoming the best you can be, whether that is better than others does not matter. Do focus on the reasons you are training, and that should be personal and I hope not just to impress others with rank, certificates or trophies. Do remember that with the knowledge and skills related to hurting others that are taught in the martial arts comes added responsibility. We should all strive to be better people, and if we are teaching to teach character development as well as the physical skills. Martial artists can follow a path of warriorship with honor, or they can become egoists and bullies. Remember what Mr. Miyagi said about his Karate, it was in the heart, not around the waist. What’s inside is important, not your rank or certificate on the wall. Train hard and live with character and honor. Yours in Training, Alain (I'll be responding to some of the posts of the last couple weeks more this week, as well as explaining why I will no longer be in the KHF) (I'll be in a different KHF) www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:55:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce Lee...Myths and Facts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> <<>> Having been firmly entrenched in the JKD concepts community from the time period of around 1991 to 1997, I feel obligated to comment on this (not that I'm an expert). The problem with a lot of these anecdotal references to Lee's striking power, is that they don't hold up to the clear evidence that we all can observe. By evidence, I mean footage of Lee himself, and a common sense use of physics. I remember reading the Hyams book as a young man and being enthralled about the passage of Lee knocking someone clear to the middle of a swimming pool. I also recall my later disappointment after seeing footage of Lee demonstrating his 1-inch punch at Ed Parker's International. Here, we can see Lee barely knocking someone back into a folding chair. I can't imagine he was holding back, as this was his "coming out" party for Jun Fan Kickboxing/JKD. I've also seen footage of Lee boxing medium size canvas punching bags at what looked to be pretty close to full bore, and it's not like he was knocking the hide off of it. A fast and powerful man for his size, yes...but nothing as Olympian as what's been written about him. If he could knock someone back five feet with a 1-inch punch, imagine what would happen if he punched a small canvas bag with fully chambered punches. He would have had to send out for a new bag every week. As far as distance goes, knocking someone back several feet (in my mind) would imply a push...not a punch. Quite frankly, most of us can push someone several feet before ever walking into a martial arts school. A concussive strike that would physically propel someone five feet over water (implying that they couldn't stumble back on their feet) would have to be something AT LEAST on the order of a small hand grenade...maybe larger. I've seen a lot of footage of Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, and Sonny Liston. Anyone who thinks Bruce Lee (all 125 lbs of him) could hit as hard as these guys is smoking something pretty good. Point is this...I've never seen any of the aforementioned knock somebody 5 feet through the air. Reason being is two-fold...assuming you could hit somebody that hard it would pulverize every bone from your knuckle to your shoulder. Second, a strike that hard would penetrate and drop you where your stand...as most powerful strikes do. Pushes knock you back...strikes knock you down. Tyson could hit like a government mule, and I've seen him blast folks flush to the body (center of mass) dozens and dozens of times. Never once did they go flying through the air for 5-inches, much less 5-feet. It just doesn't pass the smell test. IMHO, there was a TON of embellishment done to the stories of Lee in the years following his death. This is sad in that it takes away from the man's REAL contributions as a cinematic pioneer, as well as a revolutionary in terms of his liberated approach to martial arts training. Of course, this is all just my opinion. Craig "Master of the 3-Hole Punch" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: open or closed hand/waist power To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok, here's an example in a car accident, people are usually told to stay right where they are [unless it's really bad like my father's. and this is typically because you don't know to what extent they may have internal injuries are. So paint this picture, a car is going 80 MPH and slams into a tree, the body and internal organs is stil going at that speed then suddenly STOP, and slam inside the body. Now what you don't see is the speed or force of 85 mph. you see the car the body, and it slamming into the tree, but the hidden thing is the invisible energy of the speed, which untimately causes all the damage. Now let's apply that to the body in martial arts. Chi in a non crystals and granola definition is basically energy. I like to think of it as electricity, because it's invisible, can be hot, can cause physical damage, etc. So you can think of it as the bodies battery. So for instance, when you're bench pressing heavy weight, and you do reps using only your muscles, the "battery" isn't needed. But when those muscles start to get tired, the "battery" kicks in. Much like a reserve battery. *Ever heard of Bruce Lee say flow your energy by trying to move [or press against] an immovable object? this is what is going on, your muscles get tired, and so your chi starts to flow to move that weight. Now we see how one way chi flows. But you can also learn to "tap" into this energy and to control its flow. So in many soft styles they teach the concept of chi (ki/qi) where it comes from, how it can be obtained, how it can be improved and what you want to know, how to use it. Easy answer, it takes a while to grasp the concept, longer to harness it, and longer to move it and control it. It is guided by the mind....but anyhow to what you actually wanted to know. I wouldn't punch the top of the head because it's very hard! So no matter how hard you punch it the only damaged would occur to you. So you look to a palm strike with or without chi energy. At the top of the head is the baihui point (accupunture point Meeting Point of the Governing Vessel with the Bladder, Gall Bladder, Sanjiao and Liver Channels. Point of Sea of Marrow.. To strike this point with a palm strike with moderate force can be damaging alone, but with penetrating chi power is devestating/deadly. Striking with chi power means that you use little to no external force, all the power is harnessed, guided and execute in a blow where the actual target is beyond the point of contact. So, to give you a concrete idea of an abstract topic. When you punch 7 boards you are always told to try to hit a target BEHIND the board right? This is done to keep your flow of energy going so you don't hit the first board and get an unrealistic domino effect, it's so you keep an unhindered flow of motion/energy through the boards. Where people don't break all the boards is because their focus of going beyond the physical target is distorted even for just one second. So just as with focusing your mind on aiming beyond the physical target you in a sense do the same thing when guiding your chi. After you learn how to move it you learn how to focus it to go where you want it. SO basically in a nut shell chi strike are really meant to disrupt the flow of chi in your opponent's body to certain structures by attacking certain vessels, meridians, and cavities. So typically when I fight I fight open handed to deliver sometimes chi strike to manipulate my opponent's energy. Hope that helps. Jye bigpond.com> wrote: Hi Jye, Having limited knowledge of the principles of chi flow/penetration, I was intrigued by your comments about chi penetration of the skull from an open hand vs. fist. Could you please elaborate on this subject or direct me to an appropriate book or website. Thanks mate, Todd - TKD downunder _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:21:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bruce Lee...Myths and Facts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just some thoughts of mine here... "Stovall, Craig" wrote: I remember reading the Hyams book as a young man and being enthralled about the passage of Lee knocking someone clear to the middle of a swimming pool.I also recall my later disappointment after seeing footage of Lee demonstrating his 1-inch punch at Ed Parker's International. Here, we can see Lee barely knocking someone back into a folding chair. I can't imagine he was holding back, as this was his "coming out" party for Jun Fan Kickboxing/JKD. I can understand where you're coming from, but I think he wasn't trying to show of how far you can send someone, that's not really practical. I think what he was doing was showing traditionalist that you can generate power/the same power without having to chamber the arm. So for instance, if you're bringing out Chris-do. and in Chris-do you have found that you don't need to chamber the arm to deliver a powerful blow, and that you can actually knock someone across the room, which is more important to you? The fact that you can do a "trick" or the important message. What's going to stick better the trick or the message you're bring against traditional training? I can run a few steps up a wall [or off someone's chest] turn and kick someone behind me, push ups on fingertips, etc. but I don't really show off those tricks to show someone about martial arts. I've also seen footage of Lee boxing medium size canvas punching bags at what looked to be pretty close to full bore, and it's not like he was knocking the hide off of it. A fast and powerful man for his size, yes...but nothing as Olympian as what's been written about him. If he could knock someone back five feet with a 1-inch punch, imagine what would happen if he punched a small canvas bag with fully chambered punches. He would have had to send out for a new bag every week. I agree sometimes people can make others seem larger than life, and this is where the old time legends of ninja, shaolin monks, etc. come from. But we do it even now....if you were in a tournament and won...people would say, "man that Chris S is a bad MF!!! He's so fast, he can hit a man 20 times in 1 second" sometimes it actually seems like that's what you did. Remember enter the Dragon when Bruce Lee and 'Ohara' Bill wall I think were faced off? Now because you've studied JKD you probably caught it, but to some they honestly thought that Bruce with the back of his hand to the back of Ohara's hand actually shot his hand straight and punched him in the face. I got into a discussion at work once about this. Bruce actually did 2 moves, he 1)reached with the back hand to grab Ohara's hand pushing it down, 2)used the actual hand that was touching ohara's hand to hit him in the face, just like one of your basic drills in JKD. Now although the guys I was talking to was simply impressed with the thought that he was fast enough to do a one hand strike, you know they were indisbelief that he did 2 movements. So what I'm saying is we can not depend on footage...it can never replace actually being there, talking to and discussing with the person in question. I doubt he'd have to send out for a new canvas bag if he could hit real hard. Material stretches, and stuff but if the canvas bag was full and he hit it and that suck bent at the point of impact that is still doing serious damage. As far as distance goes, knocking someone back several feet (in my mind) would imply a push...not a punch. Quite frankly, most of us can push someone several feet before ever walking into a martial arts school. A concussive strike that would physically propel someone five feet over water (implying that they couldn't stumble back on their feet) would have to be something AT LEAST on the order of a small hand grenade...maybe larger. I've seen a lot of footage of Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, and Sonny Liston. Anyone who thinks Bruce Lee (all 125 lbs of him) could hit as hard as these guys is smoking something pretty good. Point is this...I've never seen any of the aforementioned knock somebody 5 feet through the air. I disagree here. Knocking someone back several feet could be from shear power. I've seen Tyson knock someone half way across the ring with a left cross. I've seen Roy jones jr knock people around off their feet, like rag dolls. I think we need to remember we have pushing power, penetrating power, and the pure hit dispersal power. But all this power reacts differently against a real life opponet with solid stances, blocking ability, etc. So sometimes like the one time we saw Roy Jones Jr. break the guys ribs, he demostrating that penetrating power where he may not have wanted to send the guy flying. Then when he fought the other guy who he bogusly lost to, he may not have wanted to use his penetraing power and used the pushing power that sent the guy back looking like he just saw Jesus. Right now, everyone on this list no matter the training all has the ability to kill someone with their barehands yet we know that there are times when our abilites are necessary and not, and I think this is the case with Bruce Lee, Roy Jones Jr, and others. Sometimes you don't want to send these guys flying. *I really do believe that if Roy Jones Jr. wanted to send someone flying, they'd be lucky if 5 feet is the furthest they go...lol. Besides it wouldn't be that hard for him, he'd most liking hit them up and out. Reason being is two-fold...assuming you could hit somebody that hard it would pulverize every bone from your knuckle to your shoulder. Second, a strike that hard would penetrate and drop you where your stand...as most powerful strikes do. This is why we properly condition our hands or what ever else we are using to be able to withstand that amount of force that it will be receiving. Ever look at a boxers knuckles? or shake the hand of one? The density is a little different then P/T martial artist. and the knuckles are huge! Pushes knock you back...strikes knock you down. Tyson could hit like a government mule, and I've seen him blast folks flush to the body (center of mass) dozens and dozens of times. Never once did they go flying through the air for 5-inches, much less 5-feet. It just doesn't pass the smell test. Yes pushes can send you back, but so can punches. You must have missed the one wear he was fighting a guy with white shorts and red trim and he hit that guy with a left and that poor fellow went flying got to his feet fell over and did that for a few more times...lol. Maybe 5 feet is a bit much, but I have seen people going off their feet. IMHO, there was a TON of embellishment done to the stories of Lee in the years following his death. This is sad in that it takes away from the man's REAL contributions as a cinematic pioneer, as well as a revolutionary in terms of his liberated approach to martial arts training. Of course, this is all just my opinion. Yeah most likely there was some embellishment going on. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:30:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Weapons To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yeah I think the teaching of weapons is very important in schools. Doesn't necessarily have to be hundreds of weapons but should be some. Then to get the real feel of it, weapons sparring should be added in....now before someone is like "THAT'S RIDICULOUS" What I am saying is protective weapons. Sticks possibly with the rubber foam coating, rubber knives etc. I remember when I had first learned weapons it was just forms and self defense stuff, but when it came down to really banging weapons together I wasn't comfortable with the actual feel of it. So now by my being comfortable with the actual feel of it, I feel that now I'm ready for the real world. I think I may have stated it before, but I would definitely incorporate weapons [basic and most common] that easily blend with TKD into the regime. Like bo, short sticks[escrima]single and double, knife, and rope. Jye Charles Richards wrote: Someone asked what weapons are taught in TKD/TSD First, to the best of my research no weapons are core part of Moo Duk Kwan TKD or TSD. Various organizations teach different weapons and/or weapons forms. For Moja Kwan 1. Middle Staff (Jo) begining around 4th Gup. Using this two handed weapon, I hope, helps gup's understand the relationship between the um and yang hand. It also developes the forearm and upper body muscle definition. 2. Dando (Dagger) for adults begining around 2nd Gup. The 12 lines/angles of attack and basic parries. Basic knife defenses. 3. Kum (Sword) for adults begining around 1st Dan. Proper respect, drawing, cutting, cleaning and sheathing. This weapon requires an extreme attention to detail and accuracy. It also developes the forearm and upper body muscle definition, along with right hand grip strength. 4. Rope is incorporated as a practical can find anywhere weapon as my skills increase we add more to the kwan tool box. Although first introduced to these techniques by Master James Allison, we have seen Tang Soo Do folks, Dr. Kimm, GM West, GM Timmerman, and Master Booth teach excellent sessions on this weapon. Generally incorporated with advanced gup level in a limited fashion. 5. Stick and/or stick and knife. Incorporated at advanced gup level, youth do not learn bladed weapons. The two man escrima forms teach great accuracy, hand-eye coordination, timing, rhythym and yes require the waist rotation to be effective. The majority of our material comes from GM Hodder and Master Terry. This also falls into my "possible to find in most environments" category. 6. Ji Pangi (Cane) is one of my favorite weapons as it can be legaly carried anywhere, and has some very simple to learn motions that are very effective, along with the more advanced techniques. Again I was first introduced to this weapon by Master James Allison, but have seen TSD folks (Master William Strong), Master Whalen, and a few others teach this weapon. I understand in many styles of Hapkido this is a 4th or 5th Dan weapon. I don't have it in the Moja Kwan system as I am not proficient at all with it, but I think it would be great 5th Dan material. In general, we don't teach one man forms with weapons, just how you might use that weapon in battle (two man forms). And the weapons training, like with sword is used to enhance other common principles. The overall focus is on weapons (except for the sword) that could be carried or found in everyday surroundings. Hope that helps. Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Steve Kincade" To: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:45:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Han Mu Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For those of you interested, the World Han Mu Do Association now has an official web site. It has taken a long time to develop, but I feel it was worth the wait. Please drop by for a visit at www.hanmudojang.com Thanks! Steve Kincade --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:40:44 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hap Ki Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Maldonado writes: > I like Hap Ki Do. > My hat is off to all of you fine people that have dedicated your lives > to > this art. I may sign up for some lessons. Again thank you for allowing > me > to post. Maldonado Kwan Jang Nim. Hello Master Maldonado. I hope you will consider joining us in Jackson next March. Not only will you be able to take a close look at Hap Ki Do, you'll meet some great people there. Sincerely, Rudy, Kwan Jang --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:52:44 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jim writes: > Speaking of Master Timmerman, there was an impromptu soft-break > session in the > parking lot just before the end of the lunch break. Sorry Master > Timmerman, I > was not able this time either to break a block. I believe I > understand the > form, I just have to practice. Several blocks were broken though by > others. Hello Jim: Great to see you are participating more and more in these seminars, and don't worry about breaking... it will come when you can relax more. BTW, NOT breaking is not limited to those who are new to it. My partner, who has done it numerous times, was unable to break after our (somewhat exhausting) trip to the land donwunda. I did not even try it, because I just KNEW I was too tired. However, I did spot a young man in the seminar group who looked VERY relaxed. When I asked him to try it, he broke it first time out. Bottom line is not to worry of it does not work, just keep trying until it does. The bricks don't mind:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:08:58 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido interest Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Maldonado wrote: > >> I like Hap Ki Do. > My hat is off to all of you fine people that have dedicated your lives to > this art. I may sign up for some lessons. << Sir, You would be most welcome to visit any of our Los Angeles area schools. Feel free to contact me offline for more info. Sharon Tkach Jang Mu Hapkido --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:16:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fort Wayne Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. McHie: You should have said that was you so I could have put the name to the face. That was my pickup truck with, and I brought about 10 concrete slabs with me. I ended up breaking 4 blocks with my left hand (due to a right shoulder injury) to demonstrate the technique. But getting taekwondo people to relax is tougher than the average person. But keep up the effort and I hope you got a copy of the photo from my website (just click on the thumbnail picture). I am also glad you enjoyed yourself in the art of hapkido. Dave was recently promoted to chodan in hapkido and has a solid grasp of hapkido basic motion. Master Farral: It is always good to see you again and toss you around a little. I promised Terrance (aka the Sequoia) that I would partner him with someone who had at least been to one hapkido seminar. You just got real lucky. :) After all, if you can perform the technique against a tree truck of a human being, than you know it works.:) Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest