Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:44:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #504 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Rubber knives = bad idea (Jye nigma) 2. dan bong (Mario Bertacco) 3. Clarification (Victor M Cushing) 4. Taekwondo specifics (David Ozanne) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Rubber_Knives?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Gedo_Chang_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. RE: Rubber knives = bad idea (Martin Von Cannon) 8. Re: Rubber knives = bad idea (Ray Terry) 9. Re: dan bong (Ray Terry) 10. Board holding (David Weller) 11. RE: Rubber knives = bad idea (Stovall, Craig) 12. Hard work and university students (Burdick, Dakin R) 13. Re: Re: Rubber Knives (TKDTOM) 14. Ray's impressive board holding ability (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 15. Re: multiple people (Michael Whalen) 16. Re: kunecticut (Michael Whalen) 17. Re: Ray's impressive board holding ability (Ray Terry) 18. Fourth Annual Moja Kwan Moo Do Camp (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:26:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad idea To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Depends on what you're doing with the rubber knives. I was talking about sparring, Jye Ray Terry wrote: Rubber knives are not recommended. They will teach you bad habits. Use wooden or dull metal training knives, not rubber or even hard rubber knives. Rubber knives bend. That is bad. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Mario Bertacco" To: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:31:39 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] dan bong Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know a good online source for ordering a Dan Bong? thanks, Mario --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:15:17 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor M Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Clarification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The position I hold in the American Kido Association is Executive Director which will be an elected official after the startup period (assumed to be two years). Rank is not relevant to this position because it will be controlled by the membership. Vic --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "David Ozanne" To: "Dojang Digest - Submissions" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:21:33 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo specifics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all. I have learnt from my instructor that I currently do Chung Do Kwan TKD. I am curious as to how this differs from other 'styles' of TKD. Does anyone know much about this particular style'? Any input is appreciated. Regards, David Ozanne --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:02:26 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Rubber_Knives?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "......Rubber knives are not recommended. They will teach you bad habits. Use wooden or dull metal training knives, not rubber or even hard rubber knives. Rubber knives bend. That is bad......" Not just knives, but swords, too. By this I mean that I have found that use of some items such as rubber knives and the foam-bat swords seem to give a false sense of accomplishment, and allow the person executing the technique not to peform proper committment to the technique or follow-through before and after. It must seem odd after watching so many TV shows and movies, but the human body actually puts up quite a bit of resistance to being pierced or cut. Of course, one part of this is the actual structures of muscle and bone that are co-located with the nerves and blood vessels one is trying to impact. Another aspect is that the target is invariably in motion, and often has clothing or protective gear. I think people will note that often, to execute a pre-determined lethal strike with a knife one often must momentarily stablize the target and then excute with significant force. There are several sentry elimination techniques that demonstrate this. On the other hand, knife styles which do not first stabilize/immobilize the target often have a goal of executing a progression of cuts or slashes reducing the individuals ability to respond through "attrition" (read also blood loss, tendon or ligament damage). If people would be interested in an experiment, you may want to take a sizable steak, or perhaps a side of ribs--- uncooked--- and suspend it by a cord. Now, attempt to skewer that piece of meat. You will find that despite surface damage, the meat is not injured unless one makes a significant committment to really cutting or thrusting with a significant tool and considerable force. I believe this why so many disarms for weapons are practiced with large body motions on the part of the weapon- weilding attacker. It actually takes quite a bit to do damage without the element of surprise, or immobilizing the victim first. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:05:25 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Gedo_Chang_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dingo Dog: ".....Yes sir, I'll try. This information was culled from Master Tammy Parlour's website in the U.K. and fliers from our old school....." Thanks for passing that along. It helps to know what tradition can be expected when people get to the seminar. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Martin Von Cannon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad idea Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:36:13 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have used these in my class to a good amount of success. http://www.nolieblades.com/ It is recommended that you not wear a uniform with them, as the lipstick can stain you clothes. - Martin Von Cannon Instructor Tacoma, WA. Dojang -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 7:53 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad idea > Yeah I think the teaching of weapons is very important in schools. Doesn't > necessarily have to be hundreds of weapons but should be some. Then to get > the real feel of it, weapons sparring should be added in....now before > someone is like "THAT'S RIDICULOUS" What I am saying is protective weapons. > Sticks possibly with the rubber foam coating, rubber knives etc. Rubber knives are not recommended. They will teach you bad habits. Use wooden or dull metal training knives, not rubber or even hard rubber knives. Rubber knives bend. That is bad. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad idea To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:37:09 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Depends on what you're doing with the rubber knives. I was talking about > sparring, Yep, for sparring, too. Empty hand to knife drills, knife to knife drills, controlled sparring, free sparring.... use metal training knives or wooden tantos. Stay away from rubber knives. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] dan bong To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:41:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Does anyone know a good online source for ordering a Dan Bong? No need to order one, just make your own. Depending on your taste, just a stick 8" to 12" inches in length, about 1" to 1.5" in width. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:50:44 -0600 From: David Weller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Board holding Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 03:01 PM, Master Timmerman wrote: > IMHO it is near impossible to have someone hold seven boards. Unless > you are "different" than most people, the hands are simply not big > enough to hold more than five. Are you using some kind of holder? If > so, please elaborate. Thanks! > Sincerely, > Rudy We had a demonstration this fall, and one of the school's black belts wanted to do a 6 board break. He had done 5 before with no problems. Outside of the holders trying to keep a grip on 5 boards.... as you say, five seems to be the limit of the average human hand. He decided that DUCT tape was the answer!! (isn't always guys???) SO he dutifully taped six boards together. And being a diligent black belt, he made sure they were tightly bound! Well, after about 4 or 5 tries, and cracking the last board in the pile, we gave up. Not because the power was not there, but because he was in essence trying to break a solid block of wood. He would have kept at it until his feet bled, but the holders were taking some serious punishment. We learned a good lesson about leaving a little "breathing room" between the boards! Without some sort of mechanical contrivance to hold the lumber, anything over 5 boards is just not doable. It'd take some "big ol' boys" to hold more than 5 boards without assistance. have a groovy day, dave weller --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:08:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Rubber knives = bad idea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I agree with Ray. With rubber knives, you might as well have them grab opposite ends of a garden hose, and tell them to have a slap fight. That's about what it degenerates to once the range is closed. Without the firmness of the wood or metal, you don't really know if you've just been gutted or had your arm slashed open (theoretically). There's no mystery as to the effectiveness of the technique when a metal trainer gets thrust into your belly. With rubber, you can't really tell. With wood and metal, there's also real consequences to getting hit in terms of bumps and bruises. That's an unfortunate part of the training, but it makes you more range conscious...just as you would be if the blade was real. Anybody will crash in on a rubber knife. Not so with the wood or metal. Same thing with the stick. I appreciate the way the Dog Brothers do their thing (heavy sticks, little armor) as opposed to what you typically see in a WEKAF type format (light sticks, lots of armor). In WEKAF, it's the guy who can swing the stick fastest that wins...defense is a moot point. In Dog Brothers, defense and range awareness are paramount because there are real consequences to getting hit. I think the DB method builds the better fighter, since any old fool off the street can hit you upside the head with a stick. Same thing with the rubber knife...any high school football player can slap you to death with a piece of rubber. It takes skill to come out the other end when some real metal (even dulled) is flying. Just my honest opinion. Craig "Say No to Rubber" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:51:47 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Hard work and university students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: IMVHO there is simply WAY too much embellishment, personality and fantasy associated with the KMA specifically and MA in general. We ALL know it, but since there are many more commercial interests than private interests associated with MA, few people will do anything about it. .... I know that this must sound like a particularly strongly worded agreement to your statement, Dakin, but perhaps I see this repeated more often than many folks with each changing semester at the college. In variably I have a waiting list to get into my class at the beginning of the semester, only to have the majority of students drop half-way through when they realize that they actually have to break a sweat, get sore, get tired and push the edges of their envelope. Of course, maybe the population has something to do with this. My Reply: I entirely agree Bruce. College students are not the best population to work with if you want people to sacrifice comfort and money to protect themselves. I see the same thing down here at Indiana University. Students take the classes for fun and to learn some stuff that may help them someday. My favorite students have been in law enforcement or the military or both. They NEED this stuff during their work, and they really get good at it as a result. Perhaps you could pick up some good students if you became a reserve Police Officer? Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "TKDTOM" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Rubber Knives Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:02 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rubber Knives If people would be interested in an experiment, you may want to take a sizable steak, or perhaps a side of ribs--- uncooked--- and suspend it by a cord. Now, attempt to skewer that piece of meat. You will find that despite surface damage, the meat is not injured unless one makes a significant committment to really cutting or thrusting with a significant tool and considerable force. Marc "animal" MacYoung does what you suggested and I see different results. Marc attacks a hanging side of beef with a knife in his "Surviving a Street Knife Fight" video and puts some deep gashes in that beef. I would not want to be on the receiving end of one of his knife strikes. Tom Kennelly 2nd Dan USCDKA TKD 1st Dan Combat Hapkido --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:24:49 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ray's impressive board holding ability Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I'm impressed you could hold 6 boards. I can't hold more than 5 without taping them together, and I usually tape 5. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:13:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: multiple people Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Multiple people are holding these boards?> When breaking multiple boards we'll have two people holding them in sort of an "X" fashion. Facing the "striker" the person on the right is in left stance with right hand on bottom right corner of boards and left hand on top left of them. The second person is on the left side in right stance and right hand is holding top right , the left hand is holding bottom left. If they have a firm stance this keeps the boards in a more stable position with less chance of any "give". The down side to this (and it's happened to me) is if the other holder gives you'll receive a big fat elbow in the jaw. It does hurt less if your head is turned ,though! michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:22:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: kunecticut Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Hey Michael where are you from? I knew a kid named Michael Whalen in connecticut ... Jye, Not me. However, I did once date a beautiful young lady from there who was quite hospitable.... michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 17 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ray's impressive board holding ability To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:12:22 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Ray, > > I'm impressed you could hold 6 boards. I can't hold more than 5 without > taping them together, and I usually tape 5. But they ripped into my hand causing a fairly deep wound. 6 is really too many for someone to hold with only average size hands (for this 6'1" guy). I broke 6 boards once myself, as well as my foot. But they were taped together and held by a couple of guys over 6'4". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:03:08 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Fourth Annual Moja Kwan Moo Do Camp Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My Dear friends, Here we are at the fourth annual, and I'm finally looking at a camp setting for our TSD/TKD/SBD/MDK seminar. Tentatively we are looking at Red Top Mountain Lodge on Lake Altoona in north Georgia. Trying to stay about two weeks from some other events that we support leaves us with the following dates September 25, 2004 alt #1 September 18, 2004 alt #2 October 2, 2004 Anyone having an interest in attending or having dates near those please give me some feedback on this list or by private email mojakwan@yahoo.com Many Thanks, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest