Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:22:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #506 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 practice blades (Jye nigma) 2. Re: Ray's impressive board holding ability (Jye nigma) 3. Re: Re: multiple people (Jye nigma) 4. Holding Boards-7 boards are too wide (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 5. Re: Rubber knives and such... (Jye nigma) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Dan_Bong_Material_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. re: Wavemaster kicks (Lasich, Mark D.) 8. re: dan bong (Kevin Hostelley) 9. Sword stuff (Burdick, Dakin R) 10. Blades are dangerous (Burdick, Dakin R) 11. RE: Knife Sparring (Dr. Daryl Covington) 12. Re: Rubber knives and such... (Ray Terry) 13. Dan Bong stuff (Ray Terry) 14. Re: Gedo Chang (MJD1128@aol.com) 15. Re: Ray's impressive board holding ability (Ray Terry) 16. Cold Steel (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:31:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 practice blades To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't see anything wrong with using wooden knives for sparring but I was just thinking about if you accidently fell on it. You want a knife where if something like that happened, you'd be ok. Jye Tammy & Greg Hindley wrote: I make a variety of custom made practice knives and custom blades as well out of various woods to your specs. If you are interested e mail me. For pics and prices. Greg Martialscience64@earthlink.net. -----Original Message----- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:26:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad idea To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Depends on what you're doing with the rubber knives. I was talking about sparring, Jye Ray Terry wrote: Rubber knives are not recommended. They will teach you bad habits. Use wooden or dull metal training knives, not rubber or even hard rubber knives. Rubber knives bend. That is bad. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ray's impressive board holding ability To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hold on....you just said that you broke 6 boards that were held by a couple of guys....so what was so hard to believe when I said I've seen that time and time again? Jye Ray Terry wrote: I broke 6 boards once myself, as well as my foot. But they were taped together and held by a couple of guys over 6'4". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:40:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: multiple people To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks! I don't know why it seemed so unbelievable. We've done it, I've seen it, and especially seen it with the Korean Tiger team. sheesh...lol Jye Michael Whalen wrote: >Multiple people are holding these boards?> When breaking multiple boards we'll have two people holding them in sort of an "X" fashion. Facing the "striker" the person on the right is in left stance with right hand on bottom right corner of boards and left hand on top left of them. The second person is on the left side in right stance and right hand is holding top right , the left hand is holding bottom left. If they have a firm stance this keeps the boards in a more stable position with less chance of any "give". The down side to this (and it's happened to me) is if the other holder gives you'll receive a big fat elbow in the jaw. It does hurt less if your head is turned ,though! michael whalen KSWnut _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:43:11 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, rterry@idiom.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Holding Boards-7 boards are too wide Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Rudy & Jye Ray stated: "Multiple people are holding these boards? Not quite.  There are multiple people involved, but it still takes a single hand to hold the N boards being broken. 7 boards are too wide, unless you're taling about people with a 12" spread between thumb and little finger.  Mine is 10.25". I just tried holding 7 boards and it was no problem. Jye is correct. The key is the thickness of the boards. I used 7 "demonstration" boards. These boards are very thin (less than one half inch). We use them for our kids demonstrations. They are very popular with Korean Demo teams. I hope that I am not giving away any KMA secrets by telling you this info. I should also note that my hand is a little smaller than yours. Cheers John --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives and such... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That's crazy. Anything can happen, now when I was in my early teens and a guy heard that I studied martial arts he pulled a real knife out and attempted to attack me....I think in all his efforts I got him to drop the knife and that thing could fall any kind of way, on/inb your foot, thigh, etc. Jye Eric Walker wrote: How many of you practice with a live blade when doing knife defense (at least some of the time)? I'm taught that if you won't do your technique with a live blade, then you shouldn't teach it to someone else. I haven't actually done any live as I am just beginning (it's Dan Kum Sool in our class), and I can't say I'm looking forward to the day when the sheath comes off...but I know it will eventually. Eric _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:41:00 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Dan_Bong_Material_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Stanley: ".....I recently started training Jang Bong. I did some surfing trying to find something affordable and wound up going to Home Depot (not online). I got myself a hunk of closet rod (1.25" diam), trimmed it to length, sanded it down and gave it few coats of tung oil. It looks great but I'm sure it won't hold up too well to any real contact because it not very hard....." You bring up a VERY important point. The material one selects for making a weapon, especially an impact weapon for training where there will be much use needs to be carefully considered. The use of stainless steel when it comes to swords is one example. When considering wooden items, pine would likewise be a poor choice even though it is cheap and easily available. Personally, I would suggest contacting someone like Melinda here on the Net and ordering up one of her chang bong (staffs) and then cutting it into forearm-length sections. The definition of a dan bong is 12inch by 1 inch in diameter but there is quite a bit of room for variance. Purists tend to subscribe to holding a short stick by the end in a reverse grip ("ice pick"-grip to knife people) and allowing the stick to lay along the forearm, marking it for trimming beyond the elbow. Of course, if you ever run into Geoff, he can do some pretty uncomfortable things to you with a much shorter and stouter piece equipt with a longer lanyard. I wonder what he makes HIS pieces out of? Anyone know? Some exotic product of Australia? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:13:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: Wavemaster kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce: Right you are, if left to freeze, the bottom of the wavemaster does indeed round off - making it much easier to kick over. Yes, I remember all too well that cold winter when I was too lazy to bring mine in from under the deck! Takes a long time to thaw too! Danny: I re-read my post. Don't know what I was thinking, but you are correct about the round kick! The crescent kicks, wheel kick, and to a lesser extent the hook kick could cause problems using a wavemaster. We were in Sam's Club the other day and saw a wavemaster-like device that has the pad on a flexible collar that slips over the neck of the wavemaster. As such, the pad has more give to it, and less action is expected out of the water filled base. It is "supposed" to give more realistic action (like hitting a body). Anyone else see these, comments???? In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:35:17 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Hostelley To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: dan bong Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >If you would like to order a Dan Bong online, >Master Geoff Booth would be a good contact point at >which to start. > >I think that there is some information on his Dan Bong >on his website >at: Didn't Tommy Chong just get into trouble for selling Bongs online? :-) ===== Kevin Hostelley --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:53:01 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: "Dojang Digest" Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye wrote: I've been informed that. Kendo is primarily a slashing weapon. Foil & epee are "point it & thrust" weapons. Sabre is a thrust & cut weapon. A slash will not result in a touch. My reply: Well, kind of. Kendo is not really a slashing art. Since it uses a shinai, it has changed over the years to become a stick art. They really don't work on slashes - you get points for hitting, not for drawing the blade back after the cut. That is one reason I practice iaido, because you use a real sword and do work on the slicing action. As for sabers, a slash will result in a touch, it is just not a good idea to do it in competition. A slash takes much longer than the simple wrist flick that will get you a touch in competition. If you actually get a slash in, you will still score a point, since fencing is all about the touch, and a slash is definitely a touch. I love pirate movies too much, so I still go for the slash, even though it is not wise in competition. It still feels fun to drag the saber over someone's stomach like in the movies! Jye also wrote: Wutang/wudang fencing is just wutang/wudang swordplay like wudang dragon sword. My reply: Hmm. Still doesn't help much. I did a bunch of google searches and still didn't clarify what you were talking about. When I did a search for wudang dragon sword, I came up with one and only one (on Google this is surprising!) page: http://gate8.com/bbs-tai/messages/1997.html Dragon is "long," and when I search for dragon sword I come up with I find on another page that a "dragon sword" is a "qinglong dao" with "qinglong" being translated on various pages as "black dragon," "blue dragon," and "green dragon." Make up your minds people! There are some Wudang taijiquan styles that use a "dragon sword" which is a jen (straight double-edged sword) and some Bagua styles that use a "dragon sword" which is a dao (saber). Which is it? Jen dragon swords: A Tzuran men swimming dragon sword VCD is found at http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd/vcd335.htm. Dao dragon swords: I find a manual for the Wudang Bagua Feilong Jian (Wudang Bagua flying Dragon sword) is found at http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/sinicus/my_manuals.htm. Shaolin Wo Long Dao (Shaolin Crouching Dragon Broadsword) VCD can be found here: http://www.allmasters.com/vc00shaolw.html. And "As to weapons, one of the most demanding routines is the long handled broadsword called Qunqiu Da Dao, i.e. (spring and autumn) large broadsword, or qinglong yanyue dao, i.e. Qinglong crescent moon broadsword. Grandmaster Chen Zhenglei has recorded the routine for those who have reached the level, and strive to practice with a 3 kg training or 10 kg real helbard of this type. Following an intoduction on the history of Chen taijiquan and Chen Zhenglei (6.5 min.), and a complete view (3 min.) plus general explanations (3 min.), the routine is being introduced in 5 sections (10 min, 10 min., 8.5 min., 10 min., 14 min.). Each section is once fully displayed before and once after the single movements. The single movements are presented some 5 times each, including explanations and slow motion. The VCD closes with a final view of the whole routine (3 min.). All demonstrations are front view presentations. The VCD is part of a collection on Chinese martial arts produced by Guangzhou Beauty Culture Communication Co. Ltd. The ISRC is CN-M23-02-0010-0/V.G8. " The webpage for Guangzhou Beauty Culture is http://www.gzbeauty.com/ and looks like it has good VCDs. Anyone bought stuff from them yet? The only reference I can find to dao fencing is John Painter's site where he talks about (and has a photo of) soft sword fencing. Scoring, I imagine, is something like old style dry fencing? see: http://www.ninedragonbaguazhang.com/weapon.htm By the way, if you are interested in learning how to fight with a dao, another thing to do is learn to fight with sticks. Double sticks from the Philippines is pretty close to double saber, although you still have to keep the difference between a stick art and a blade art in mind. But most of the Filipinos train with the knife in mind, so that reduces the problem. For that kind of thing, I would recommend the Dog Brothers (http://www.dogbrothers.com/index1.htm) but only if you like pain! Still trying to figure out what wudang dragon sword is! Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:03:58 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Blades are dangerous Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: It must seem odd after watching so many TV shows and movies, but the human body actually puts up quite a bit of resistance to being pierced or cut. My reply: I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one Bruce. Any blade is a dangerous weapon. Your response seems to have been based on the idea that such a strike would be lethal, and I agree that a lethal cut is not going to be easy to do (hence sentry elimination techniques) BUT a knife is incapacitating. You spoke of hanging a steak or side of ribs up. That is different from a living being in a couple of ways: 1. Living beings feel pain. Even a paper cut can make you flinch. 2. Living beings have muscular tension. A cut across a muscle will be ripped even wider as the muscle contracts. A friend of mine saw a guy cut with a penknife in school. The blade was about an inch long. The cut was across the bicep and the wound was about 3 inches long and and an inch wide by the time the muscles got done with it. The guy collapsed immediately from shock. I've seen enough people in iaido cut themselves seriously (eyes, thumbs, hands, arms) to know that a blade is a dangerous thing. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Knife Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We use a knife pattern cut from a 1/2 inch thick piece of durable plastic (Mine actually are cut from an old plastic cutting board / butcher block). One the pattern is cut int he shape you want, glue a piece of felt along the "blade". When sparring, you can cover the felt in lipstick. Then, you can tell wou really got "CUT". Adds some fun and reality to knife fighting. On a personal note, I prefer to carry my Charles Daly 1911 .45 to the knife fight. ha ha daryl --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives and such... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:41:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > How many of you practice with a live blade when doing knife defense (at > least some of the time)? Yes, we do that. But the students must be rather advanced (a couple of years of knife practice) before they're allowed to "go live". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:57:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Dan Bong stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Personally, I would suggest contacting someone like Melinda here on the > Net and ordering up one of her chang bong (staffs) and then cutting it > into forearm-length sections. The definition of a dan bong is 12inch by 1 > inch in diameter but there is quite a bit of room for variance. Purists > tend to subscribe to holding a short stick by the end in a reverse grip > ("ice pick"-grip to knife people) and allowing the stick to lay along the > forearm, marking it for trimming beyond the elbow. Several years ago I worked out a dan bong weapon design where the stick was longer in length (17") than the average dan bong and had a loop of 14" cord on the end. The extra length of the stick and the cord gave it some interesting capabilities. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: MJD1128@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:57:43 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gedo Chang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 11/14/2003 6:59:07 AM US Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > From: Dingodog1@webtv.net (Donald Pillow) > Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:21:47 -0500 (EST) > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Gedo Chang > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > No problem, happy I can contribute to this list. > Does Master Chang still do his annual seminars in Chicago? I trained with him for a few years in the late 80's and I really enjoyed his system and seminars. Does he have a seminar schedule? Mark --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ray's impressive board holding ability To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hold on....you just said that you broke 6 boards that were held by a > couple of guys....so what was so hard to believe when I said I've seen that > time and time again? Because you insisted that you saw seven (7!) regular size boards being held, hundreds of times. Sorry, no. Not by someone with halfway normal sized hands. The guys holding my 6 boards were rather large men with rather large hands holding taped boards. We tried seven that way, wouldn't work. And, of course, I we would not have used smaller boards. Those are just for little kids. Thread end... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:09:40 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Cold Steel Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> How many of you practice with a live blade when doing knife defense (at least some of the time)? I'm taught that if you won't do your technique with a live blade, then you shouldn't teach it to someone else. I haven't actually done any live as I am just beginning (it's Dan Kum Sool in our class), and I can't say I'm looking forward to the day when the sheath comes off...but I know it will eventually. ================================================== Dear knifefighters, I have heard that my Hapkido instructor has done this, but I have never seen this. Knowing him and his skill level, I'd say it was safe for him and his partner...but. For the rest of us, please remember rule #1 1. Steel cuts flesh. I have two puncture scars to remind me what happens when you do things unsafely or without qualified coaching and preparation. There are so many quality aluminum or steel training blades out their, I'd say dip one in some water based paint or put some ink on the "blade" and practice first. You will still "feel" your mistakes. Start with protective gear and work up to no protective gear except goggles before you decide to face cold steel. Also, if you do some of the parry/grab/wrist twisting defenses, the knife can come out of the attackers hand. I have had practice knives droped on my foot, fall on the attacker during the takedown, fall on the floor and then have the attacker fall on them, and have the practice knife fly across the room. Just a friendly caution. Just $0.02 worth from a gray beard Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest