Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:09:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #510 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: mechanical board holders (John Frankl) 2. Re: Correctly converting Korean Words into English (John Frankl) 3. Friendship (David Ozanne) 4. RE: Bernard Maginnity (Farral, Kim) 5. Gun or Knife (Chris LaCava) 6. Re: Knee operation (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Whats_with_the_knees=3F=3F?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Gurkhas and knives (Burdick, Dakin R) 9. Injuries (Charles Richards) 10. Do and Sul again (Charles Richards) 11. Reconstructed Knee (Dr. Daryl Covington) 12. Reply: Gun vs. Knife (Dr. Daryl Covington) 13. Seminar hosted by UMAS (Troy Smith, Jr.) 14. Austin Seminar (Wicker, H. Keith) 15. RE: Live blade training (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 16. Hapkido Schools in the Houston Area (Gordon Ray Polk) 17. Breaking (Art VanVranken) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] mechanical board holders Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:39:53 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry wrote: "It was interesting, but keep in mind that one serious problem with such a device is that if you don't hit the boards perfectly on target and kick part of the holding device you may very well end up with a broken foot." True, but better some "master" should break his own foot than break some poor student's fingers/wrist. Such a holder would provide some degree of danger to the one trying the break, and thereby force him/her to have true confidence, or to suffer the consequences of a failed attempt. In either case, this may be the one and only positive use for such circus demonstrations. Nice to be back, John Frankl >From: Ray Terry >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Subject: [The_Dojang] mechanical board holders >Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:14:48 -0800 (PST) > >On the topic of mechanical board holding devices, the first one I saw in >action was one that Hee Il Cho used during his 1st Beverly Hills Open that >was held at Beverly Hills High School (Calif) circa 1982. > >It was interesting, but keep in mind that one serious problem with such >a device is that if you don't hit the boards perfectly on target and kick >part of the holding device you may very well end up with a broken foot. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Correctly converting Korean Words into English Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:06 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Steven, I hope this proves useful. There are a couple of accepted "standard" systems of romanizing Korean. No matter which you choose, of course, students will often be far from the proper pronunciation. But it is nice that you are putting forth the effort to get them in the ballpark. The McCune-Reischauer system should be posted somewhere on the web--try a google search. It does employ some diacritics, but it has been the standard for academic and many other works for some time. More recently the Korean government adopted a new version of an old system, and that is what is currently in use in South Korea. I find it less appealing than the M-R system, partially because I am used to the latter but also because it is unwieldy and contains certain ambiguities. I will post a few words below in each system and you be the judge of which your students will read to approximate more closely the "proper" pronunciation: Çѱ۠                     M-R                       New govt. ºÎ»ê                     Pusan                     Busan ÀÎõ                     Inch'on                               >From: "Steve H. Kim" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Correctly converting Korean Words into English >Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:56:23 -0800 > >Slowly creeping out of lurk mode.... > >Howdy everyone. Long time reader, first time writer (sorry, too much talk >radio). I'm hoping someone can answer this question for me. Does anyone know >if there is a book or a website that instructs someone on how to correctly >romanitze Korean into English. It seems much easier to teach younger kids >Korean terminology if it is written down, but the way we have it written down >on our current curriculum, seems to just butcher the Korean language. I write >this post with quite a bit of embarrassment because I am Korean but raised in >the states so my Korean is fairly weak, and correctly romanizing these words >would actually help me quite a bit (it's for the kids). >Any help would be appreciated. > >Thanks >Steve Kim >Victorville Tae Kwon do >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "David Ozanne" To: "Dojang Digest - Submissions" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:29:20 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Friendship Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello. What does everyone think of friendship between instructors/students? eg. should it happen, does it happen, does it work etc. Regards, David Ozanne --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:10:14 -0500 From: "Farral, Kim" To: "Dojang " Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Bernard Maginnity Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pil Seung... Bernie... Since you brought it up...I have to ask you the same thing I ask all my friends and acquaintances in Oz... What crime did YOUR Ancestors commit? Pil Seung! The One and Only "TINK" ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:43:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gun or Knife Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Eric W. <> I agree with your post except for the above statement. There are so many variables in a gun or knife altercation. With that said, I understand your thoughts on the subject and they really seem logical, but in general, unless a person has been in a situation where a firearm has been introduced, they may think differently about the situation. It's similar to a person with no children saying that raising kids isn't that difficult. With respect. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:44:58 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Knee operation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gaye Hope the surgery goes well, and wishing you a speedy recovery. I've has surgery on my right knee four times, but for different problems than yours, so can't say how long. Work with your doctors and physical therapists to get your knee back to 100% safely and quickly. Again, wishing you a speedy recovery. Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:44:39 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Whats_with_the_knees=3F=3F?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Gaye: ".....I am having an athroscopic knee reconstruction tomorrow. I have torn my MCL and also fully ruptured ACL it seems. I wanted to ask you all if you have or know someone who has had such an operation in the recent years and if so how long it took before they were on the mats fully functional again. Any information shared on this, suggestions, warnings welcome....." I don't mean to put you on the spot in particular. What I would like to do is use your letter to draw a line in the sand, if you will, and ask folks who practice arts such as TKD and TSD what it is about their training patterns that may have contributed to bad joints. (BTW: I am not excluding HKD or TK practitioners, if they want a piece of this.) So far I think I am identifying four villains. 1.) People who practice in two activites that repeatedly stress the same joints (ie. TKD and soccer?; TSD and basketball?) 2.) People who overtrain with excessive repetition especially for form (ie. to the air). 3.) People who prepare poorly or use inappropriate warm-ups such as deep kneebends or bunny-hops. 4.) People who participate in competitions which put them at extreme risk for injury (ie. "open tournaments") or do not adequately rehab from such injuries. I am concerned that people may be of a mind that joint injury may become viewed as inevitable or acceptable consequence of KMA training. I have heard this view voiced at times by HKD practitioners and I personally do not concur. Anyone have any thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:31:14 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Gurkhas and knives Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: >But there needs to be some way of incorporating the necessary committment to a technique. >You know, I was just thinking that those tough little men from Nepal -- the Gurkhas--- pride themselves on their considerable knife skills and have proven their abilities in combat. Does anyone know anything about THEIR training approach? My Reply: Funny you should mention that Bruce. I went to several of Dr. Maung Gyi's training camps and combat camps. He is the head of American Bando and was a Ghurka. He is a very tough old guy, with great technique. We trained in Kukri technique (and a Ghurka kukri run), but I preferred our work on sentry elimination techniques with the Ka-bar. We hanged a number of heavy cardboard tubes (about 4 inches in diameter, about a quarter inch thick) up from some wires and approached them from a crawl, standing, etc. We worked on penetrating these free-hanging tubes with a variety of strikes. The aim was to penetrate BOTH sides of the tube (go in one side and come out the other), which he assured us was adequate to penetrate a skull (he also taught at Ft. Benning). I would say, however, that this is different than fighting someone who knows you're coming. I would still tend to cut the limbs and work my way in. Seems safer. Eric Walker writes regarding training with live steel: It's not crazy; it's confidence in your technique. This isn't some jerk jumping around really trying to hurt you with the knife; it's an advanced martial arts partner that you've been working with for some time, many years perhaps. My reply: I still say it is crazy. As I mentioned, people I know have taken people's eyes out like this, and they were experienced martial artists who were just doing a FORM. Even if you agree with this training with live steel, you can't go full speed and with commitment unless you are willing to kill a new guy everyday. You're going to run out of training partners pretty quick! The reason kendo and fencing were developed was so that one could train with power and speed SAFELY. Ray wrote: Not all out sparring, of course not. But working live is necessary to develop proper skills and real appreciation of the blade. My reply: That's fine, but I would stick to target practice. Another thing I learned from Dr. Gyi was that the blade can hit you if you (1) miss or (2) it rebounds from the target. Eric also wrote: We haven't used protective gear from day one. We use a large measure of control in the beginning, but protective gear? Seems like too much to me, why not wear protective gear whenever we train then? You never know what could happen...a finger can do a lot of damage to an eye so why not always wear goggles. Don't you think that we should train as realistically as possible? My reply: Yes, a finger can hurt (I had the skin under my eye cut by a spearhand thrust one day - I wear goggles with people I don't know now) but a knife cuts better. I don't see many people cutting their steak with their fingers! "Training realistically" is not as important as training safely. The only guys who really train realistically are (1) at war (and you don't see them getting into a lot of knife fights) and (2) murderers (who DO get into a lot of knife fights). Why are you training with a knife? What is the purpose? Are you going to carry one around? If so, you are asking for trouble if you ask me. If you are that concerned about your safety, get a permit and training and carry a concealed firearm. They work better. Sharon wrote: Even so, occasionally the use of steel for the test will be overruled by the test board in favor of spectator safety, as in the past we've seen poor knife control by the partner. My reply: Yep. I remember watching Gary Alexander demonstrate a knife disarm out at one of the Martial Arts Hall of Fames in Pennsylvania (I think). The (butter)knife went flying and struck the wall between the heads of two members of the audience. "Last time it did that, the Ka-Bar stuck right in the wall," was Gary's comment! I'm sure one or two of you were there for that one. Remember? Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:40:13 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Gaye, Wishing you a speady recovery. I had a 60% tear in the outter ligament in my knee. Took about 6 months of PT to heal and about 3 more months of strengthening to get back to normal. It was odd for a while to see one thigh a couple inches reduced in diameter. For the gentleman that broke his leg in a tournament. Randal is right and you will know when it's going to rain for the rest of your life and Ray is correct also. Go slow during the recovery phase. Be Well, Charles RIchards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:16:01 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Do and Sul again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear list, Our thread on training with live blades relates to a long conversation my wife (6th gup after 4 years and two children) and I had. 1. Our interpretation of the 5th codes is "Justice, never to take a life without cause." She was a little concerned with 6 year olds memorizing/learning this concept. I of course explained that we are of course not teaching children how to take lives, but how to choose wisely (with the seriousness of life and death) about choices in life. I can see from her perspective why my first instructor modernized to "Never fight to achieve selfish ends, but to develope might for right." I can also see that based on my approach to martial arts and content I choose to teach maybe it's time to shift my entry age to 8 or 10.... 2. On that same concept she mentioned her concern with the WTF style sparring that includes knockouts in the 14+ BB divisions. I was trying to explain that IMHO that it's another contact sport that an athelete may choose to take themselves to "the edge" knowing that a 175# adult is going to try to kick you in the head hard enough to knock you out will teach you to sidestep and keep your guards up as realistically as training with a real knife. Since I've entered this division at a state and national level competition, I can say I personally thrive on this level of strategy and preparation. And, given as much preparation and confidence in my knife skills as I have in doing roundkick over the last 18 years, I could see myself training with an experienced partner with a live blade, and like Eric being OK with getting some "tough lessons." My wife's view is that all combatative sports (Boxing,Toughman, etc.) teach the "wrong" philosophy and are too violent. All this discussion really points back to the eternal question ...Is my approach to martial arts karate-do (character development) or karate-jutsu (application). I wouldn't let my students participate in the WTF style sparring if I hadn't done it myself, and I can see Eric's instructor's approach to teaching knife defense. Don't teach someone something that you have no basis for confidence in. Especially representing it as something to be used in a "mind-no-mind" crisis situation to defend yourself. OK enough reambling, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:34:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reconstructed Knee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "In response to: I am having an athroscopic knee reconstruction tomorrow. I have torn my MCL and also fully ruptured ACL it seems. I wanted to ask you all if you have or know someone who has had such an operation in the recent years and if so how long it took before they were on the mats fully functional again. Any information shared on this, suggestions, warnings welcome. I am not really looking forward to it but it needs to be done if I want to have my right leg functional again. It has never been 100% throughout my volleyball years in the league anyways but still, knowing there will be caps and screws in your knee is just not the best source of enthusiasm by any means." I have had this surgery twice. The first time, it didn't go well, I was too active, and everything tore loose. The second time, a donor ligamate was used. It took me a year to recover and about 14 months to gain full range of motion, but it is holding up nicely know, although I did retire from the NHB and Kickboxing. daryl --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:38:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply: Gun vs. Knife Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Most people that would use a Gun against you would not get close enough for you to do a "gun self defense". As far as you preferring to be attacked with a gun over a knife, that is your personal preference, but I'm still taking my .45 to the knife fight. Id rather shoot than cut any day of the week --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:30:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Troy Smith, Jr." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar hosted by UMAS Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to thank all those who came out and supported the United Martial Arts Society, and Master Jason Thomas. We had an awesome time. Topics covered were: Hop and Jump Kicks by Master Dennis McHenry, Hapkido Basics with Mr. Wicker, Sweeps and Takedowns with Master Thomas, Hapkido empty hand and advance tech. by Master Troy Smith, Escrima and Knife Fighting by Master Valdes. I hope everyone had a good time and we can do this again soon. It was my first time meeting some of you but hearing about you from Master Thomas I felt I already knew you. Again thank you and God Bless! Master Troy Smith, President United Martial Arts Society __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:12:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Austin Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The seminar in Austin, Texas this past weekend hosted by Master Jason Thomas was a great success!! Sessions included hyung applications, power kicking, Arnis, Sayoc Kali, and Hapkido. I enjoyed meeting Master Valdes (TKD, Sayoc Kali) and Master Smith (TKD, HKD) of the UMAS. Master McHenry (TSD) made sure we completed his power kicking session completely drenched in sweat!!! I wanted to thank Master Thomas for coordinating this event and being such a good host. I highly recommend attending the next Austin seminar it you can make it. Keith Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF League City, Texas --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:41:27 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Live blade training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have trained with partners with a live blade. Notice I say trained with, because it is not full open sparring. And a lot more solo. Won't do it with anyone I don't know, and I don't have any dans with enough experience where I am now. Care must be extreme. And Ray is correct, you will get cut if you train with a live blade. I have also used tape on the blade on the blade to increase safety. Lets you use the knife you really would use instead of a trainer. But still have to be careful, especially with double edge blades. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Gordon Ray Polk" To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:52:27 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Schools in the Houston Area Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am looking for a Hapkido School in the Houston area. I would prefer something North, near Spring, TX. Years ago I studied Hapkido under GM Hyun in Chicago. I am looking for a similar type school that emphasizes the practical. I would prefer a school that concentrates on technique, not forms. Forms were not part of my training in Chicago. If not Hapkido, is there another art of similar philosophy in the area? I've looked into Kuk Sool Won, Tang Soo Do, and others, but have not found what I am looking for. I am too old to compete. I am looking solely for self defense. Any advice would be welcome. Thank you. Gordon R. Polk gpolk@houston.rr.com --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:02:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We just had a situation in our school where the holder almost got his thumb broken from a misplaced kick. Maybe we should make a non human board holder for these breaks. Unfortunately for this person he also got his nose cut while sparring with a black belt while testing for his Black Belt. I hope this is the end of his bad luck for now. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest