Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:36:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #511 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Friendship (Martin Von Cannon) 2. MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI (Tammy & Greg Hindley) 3. CHAYON Ryu in New Orleans. (William.Baldwin@ureach.com) 4. Re: Reply: Gun vs. Knife (Ray Terry) 5. Soo Il-Ann (fwd) (Ray Terry) 6. Re: MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI (Ray Terry) 7. Re: MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI (John Frankl) 8. Area of Focus (Michael Anderson) 9. Re:_Whats_with_the_knees - II (Myron Murff) 10. Re: Gun and Knife Distance... (J Thomas Howard) 11. Re: Friendship between instructors and students (Richard Zaruba) 12. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_How_about_Chinese_=3F=3F=3F?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 13. RE: Rubber knives = bad ide (Kirk Lawson) 14. Hapkido in Houston (Wicker, H. Keith) 15. RE: Austin Seminar (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 16. Different KHF (ABurrese@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Martin Von Cannon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Friendship Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:26:47 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Speaking from personal experience, this is a tough subject. I have had friends that attended my school, before I became an instructor. Now that I am an instructor and sometimes have them in my sessions, it is tough to enforce discipline. They slip up as do I. The other students catch on to that. My friends have been warned, and I constantly warn myself, that when it comes to TKD I am not the same type of friend. Feelings do get hurt on both sides. It makes non-TKD functions difficult at times. My opinion on the subject is to avoid it at all costs. If your friends want to attend your class, try not to be their instructor (if possible), or recommend they take a different class. I have lost good friends over TKD classes. Try not to associate with your students outside of class functions if possible. You may act differently in class than you do in a more relaxed atmosphere. This may allow Joe Student to get close to you and then the discipline issues start. Again, this is all just my experience and opinion. - Martin Von Cannon Instructor Tacoma, WA. Dojang A Black Belt is more than something you wear. It's more than something you earn. A Black Belt is something you become. -----Original Message----- From: David Ozanne [mailto:tkdwarrior@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 3:29 AM To: Dojang Digest - Submissions Subject: [The_Dojang] Friendship Hello. What does everyone think of friendship between instructors/students? eg. should it happen, does it happen, does it work etc. Regards, David Ozanne --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Tammy & Greg Hindley" To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:29:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hap Ki Do barely maintained its continuation through individual masters, Buddhist monks and royal families practicing the arts in seclusion. In an attempt to prevent the complete loss of the fighting arts, King JUNG-JO ordered his general LEE-DUK-MOO to compile a book of all the known martial techniques. The book known as MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI has many detailed examples of Hap Ki Do techniques. Does anyone on the list know how to obtain a copy of this book or excerpts? Thanks Greg --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:23:33 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: William.Baldwin@ureach.com, MD-S Subject: [The_Dojang] CHAYON Ryu in New Orleans. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net [[From: "Michael Falba" [[To: [[Subject: [The_Dojang] Chayon ryu [[Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:37:26 -0600 [[Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net [[ >I also attended the CHAYON Ryu school in New Orleans. [[Hey William: [[What years did you train with Moon and do you still train? [[Mike Falba I caught the last six months or so before he left. Damn good school. I trained on and off (Sabunim would say mostly off...) until a few years ago. Then I took a job that involved a lot of travel. Wish I could say that I still train, but it's hard moving around and finding time when you work 60+ hours a week. Anyone knowing a good Martial Arts school in Norfolk, Va. let me know. Do you still train there Mike? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Reply: Gun vs. Knife To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:56:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... but I'm still taking > my .45 to the knife fight. Id rather shoot than cut any day of the week You're my kind of minister... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Soo Il-Ann (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A new(?) twist. Nigerian scam spam, but with bit of a Korean historical twist. Somewhat humorous to read... Chun Doo-hwan was president of SK from 1980 to 1988. Also strange to note that this scam spam was sent to, and deleted from, the Eskrima list. :) Ray ====================================================================== My name is Soo Il-Ann, The younger brother of Mr. Chun Doo-Hwan, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately Amnesty International stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. He has finally being released though still under house arrest in the sense of conditions of the freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. We have plans to invest this money for our children's future on real estate and industrial production. Before my brother's was overthrown, we secretly siphoned the sum of One hundred and eleven (111,000,000.00)million american dollars out of Seoul and deposited the money with a reputable security firm I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the security company and claim the money on our behalf since we have declared that the funds in the consignment belong to our foreign business partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investment in your country. I hope to trust you and hope you will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather assist me properly, I expect you to declare what percentage of the total money you will take for your assistance. When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the security company is and the payment pin code to claim the money which is very important. What we need is to indicate your interest that you will assist us by receiving the money on our behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a security company. We cannot do this ourselves because we do not have any relatives living outside South Korea and moreover we do not want the government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe we got the money from my brother while he was still in office as president. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I will come over with my Children to your Country or any Country in Europe to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, we intend to use our own share in acquiring some real estates abroad. For this too you shall also be our overseas manager of all our properties and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed on by both parties. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because my line is right now connected to the South Korean Telecommunication Network services therefore we can not take the chances of being over-heard. Please also send me your telephone number. The reason why it took this long was that the security company's agreement with me was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that will transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it paid off. His Excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, Soo Il-Ann --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:23:15 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hap Ki Do barely maintained its continuation through individual masters, > Buddhist monks and royal families practicing the arts in seclusion. Hapkido comes from Japan's Daito-Ryu JuJutsu as taught by Takeda Sensei (somehow) to Choi Yong-sul and then enhanced by Ji Han-jae and others. Not from Korean royal families or Buddhist monks practicing in seclusion. > In an attempt to prevent the complete loss of the fighting arts, King > JUNG-JO ordered his general LEE-DUK-MOO to compile a book of all the > known martial techniques. The book known as MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI has > many detailed examples of Hap Ki Do techniques. > > Does anyone on the list know how to obtain a copy of this book or > excerpts? The book is really more of a documentation of the Chinese arts, but I believe you can find one translation in the archives of this list. Others are also available. Doesn't Dr. Kimm have one?? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com P.S. Looking forward to seeing Gm Ji this evening. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:26:47 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a couple of copies of the work in both literary Chinese and modern Korean translation. It has nothing to do with Hapkido. In fact, it is largely based on a similar Chinese work and contains many Chinese martial arts techniques. It also has a section on Japanese sword techniques. The false ideas concerning purity that are so prevalent today simply did not exist prior to the late nineteenth/early twentieth centuries. John Frankl >From: "Tammy & Greg Hindley" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:29:46 -0600 > >Hap Ki Do barely maintained its continuation through individual masters, >Buddhist monks and royal families practicing the arts in seclusion. In >an attempt to prevent the complete loss of the fighting arts, King >JUNG-JO ordered his general LEE-DUK-MOO to compile a book of all the >known martial techniques. The book known as MOO-YAE-DO-BO-TONG-JI has >many detailed examples of Hap Ki Do techniques. > >Does anyone on the list know how to obtain a copy of this book or >excerpts? > >Thanks >Greg >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP spam with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Michael Anderson To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:03:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Area of Focus Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My family, (myself, my wife and son) are looking to begin training in one of the practiced martial arts. Of all the different variations and forms, beliefs, philosophies, etc. we are a little indecisive on where to focus to say the least. Does anyone know of a website that might detail what is involved in the different martial arts, training, practices, etc. so that we might further research our choices unbiased? Please excuse the 'newbie' question, I hope no one takes offense to me posting such to this list. M Anderson --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:20:14 -0600 From: Myron Murff To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:_Whats_with_the_knees - II Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We are often told that improper technique will lead to joint injury. In particular, executing "round" kicks with out pivoting on the base leg foot. Myron --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:20:53 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gun and Knife Distance... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" > Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply: Gun vs. Knife > Most people that would use a Gun against you would not get close enough > for you to do a "gun self defense". As far as you preferring to be > attacked with a gun over a knife, that is your personal preference, but > I'm still taking my .45 to the knife fight. Id rather shoot than cut any > day of the week While I agree with the "take the gun to the knife fight" I'm also not blind to the fact that a gun in the holster vs. a knife that is out at close range is a bad choice. (Of course, that is true for any self-defense tool---if it isn't in your hand at the right time, it isn't useful.) But hey, I take a gun AND a knife to a knife fight. :) Why I'm really replying is because of Dr. Covington's first statement above, that most people who use a gun won't be close enough for useful self-defense techniques. I'm curious where this comes from? I'm always interested in more information about self-defense. I'll note that from my experience (and my information) criminals will indeed get close enough. When it happened to me, he was close enough. One incident does not make for a good generalization, but most of the information I have on gun self-defense situations say several things, all of which indicate that close range is what happens: 1) Most criminal shootings occur at a range of 7 feet or less. Often around 3 feet. (Not yards, FEET.) 2) Some study which I can't cite at the moment (I'm not at home at my normal computer) cited a statistics review whose conclusion was that in general, most victims of crimes (that included a firearms) were menaced from less than arms length distance. As an aside, the national criminal accuracy average at 3-7 feet was 1 in 17 a year or so ago. :) Please, please, let Hollywood keep telling criminals to hold their guns sideways and just blast away without aiming! Thomas ---------- hapkido@mindspring.com Nebraska Hapkido Association hapkido.4t.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:30:56 -0600 From: Richard Zaruba To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Friendship between instructors and students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, My question is how do you go about training a student and not develop a friendship with them after a period of time. In my dojang we take after our own name and tend to view one another as an extended family by the time they reach the advanced underbelt ranks if not by the time they reach the intermediate ranks. Along the same train of thought would an instructor be willing to truly spend the time and effort to develop a student to their fullest potential if they did not have a personal relationship with them. I find that I can not view my students as "customers" I view them as close acquaintances if not personal friends after a period of time. This may not be what is preached at some of the MA business seminars but I find my retention of my students, both beginning and advanced, to be better than a number of commercial schools that I have been to. Rich > Message: 3 > From: "David Ozanne" > To: "Dojang Digest - Submissions" > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:29:20 +1000 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Friendship > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Hello. > > What does everyone think of friendship between instructors/students? eg. > should it happen, does it happen, does it work etc. > > Regards, > David Ozanne ____________________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba, KSN Kuk Sool Won Family Martial Arts Center 2500D South Columbia Road Grand Forks, NDD 58201 Http://www.ksw-nd.com/ richard@ksw-nd.com Sch: (701) 775-7088 --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:57:15 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_How_about_Chinese_=3F=3F=3F?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear John et al: ".....I hope this proves useful. There are a couple of accepted "standard" systems of romanizing Korean. No matter which you choose, of course, students will often be far from the proper pronunciation. But it is nice that you are putting forth the effort to get them in the ballpark....." I asked this question of Thomas Chen on the SWORD FORUM INTERNATIONAL after a fine reprint of an entry on Gen Qi Jiguang from the Dictionary of Ming Biographies. I had attempted to use the same text to locate other notable generals and had failed miserably. Of course I had noted that my rendering of Gen Qi's name was much different from that of the Dictionary (Geheral Chi Chi Juang vis General Qi, Jiguang vis Gen. Ki Chi Kwang). I was sure that Wade-Giles was a standard but that not withstanding is there some rendering of names in Chinese that will increase the probability of research success? Its not bad enough that names and titles change as a life progresses, but there are even differences after the person dies!!! Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:00:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad ide Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 7:53 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Rubber knives = bad idea > > Rubber knives are not recommended. They will teach you bad > habits. Use > wooden or dull metal training knives, not rubber or even hard > rubber knives. Rubber knives bend. That is bad. This is good. Hard rubber knives that bend a little bit are far better then blunt wooden or metal trainers that will still jam into your body with a strongly committed thrust or lunge. As evidence, I present to you sport Fencing which has been dealing with this *exact* problem for centuries. Their solution (besides flexible armor) was to select weapons that were firm enough to parry and thrust, yet flexible enough to bend when contacting the body in a committed thrust and then learn to know when you've been "hit." That's not to say that there isn't a place for inflexible training weapons, but, by the same token, there is also a place for (somewhat) flexible training weapons. Bad habits that you learn are your own fault, or that of your instructor. Don't blame the tool if you make it out to be something more then it is. Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:36:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in Houston Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Polk wrote: "I am looking for a Hapkido School in the Houston area" Mr. Polk, Hodder's Korean Martial Arts in the Seabrook area (Southeast of Houston) teaches Hapkido. Master Hodder is a great TKD and HKD instructor. Good Luck, Keith --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Austin Seminar Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:21:11 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Keith, Thank you very much for the kind words. I'd like to thank everyone who came out and to Austin and in particular the knowledgeable Masters & Black Belts who shared there skills with everyone at the seminar. In particular, I'd like to give special thanks to: GM Cordoncillo Sr. Master Troy Smith Master William Valdes Master Dennis McHenry Mr. Keith Wicker Ms. Mindy McHenry Mr. Tripp Ateyeh I've posted pictures on my site from the event, for the participants to download at their leisure. There are about 200 pics, which will stay of for about 30 days. If anyone is interested they are located at www.natkd.com/events. Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Tae Kwon Do www.natkd.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Wicker, H. Keith [mailto:Wicker@cl.uh.edu] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:12 AM > To: 'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net' > Subject: [The_Dojang] Austin Seminar > > The seminar in Austin, Texas this past weekend hosted by Master Jason > Thomas > was a great success!! Sessions included hyung applications, power > kicking, > Arnis, Sayoc Kali, and Hapkido. I enjoyed meeting Master Valdes (TKD, > Sayoc > Kali) and Master Smith (TKD, HKD) of the UMAS. Master McHenry (TSD) made > sure we completed his power kicking session completely drenched in > sweat!!! > I wanted to thank Master Thomas for coordinating this event and being such > a > good host. I highly recommend attending the next Austin seminar it you > can > make it. > > Keith > > Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF > League City, Texas > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:23:18 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Different KHF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A little while ago I made reference to a new Korea Hapkido Federation that I was going to belong to, so I thought I should get that clarified before too much more time passes. I was speaking at a CLE (Continuing Legal Education) last week on professionalism and have been working harder on a couple projects lately, so I’m still behind in e-mails. Anyway, as most know I have been under the Dae-han Hapkido Hyup-hwe (Korea Hapkido Federation) with GM Oh, Se-lim as president. The reason I have been under this organization, and that I have dan rank from this organization, is because my instructors in Korea were under this organization. (Kwanjannim Kim, KHF 7th dan; and Sabomnim Lee, KHF 4th or 5th dan) As I’ve said before, my connections are directly with Korea, and I have no affiliation with and KHF people here in the States. I do not really know much regarding KHF people in the States, and don’t like the negative press the KHF has gotten. After all, an organization is only as good or bad as the members, and many organizations have both good and bad. (Bigger the organization, the easier to see people at both extremes.) But this post is not about that. I do know that my instructors and friends in Korea are excellent martial artists, hapkidoin, and people. And that last part is the most important. I don’t care what kind of martial skills you have if you don’t have the character to go along with it, or if you abuse your position, rank, skills, etc. (you get my drift, I’ve been on that soap box before) I will be getting my next dan rank from a new Korea Hapkido Federation. That’s right, a different Korea Hapkido Federation. They actually go by The Corporation Korea Hapkido Federation on the front page of the website, but everything else has The Korea Hapkido Federation. Now, before people get all bent out of shape about the name being the same, or similar, please note that the names are different in Korean. It’s just that the translation is the same, as anyone who does any translating knows, translations can be difficult. This organization’s Korean name is Hanguk Hapkido Yun-maeng. It’s president is GM Park, Kum-shil. You can see more about this organization at www.koreahapkido.tv. The website is in Korean only at this time. Okay, some people might be thinking that I am switching organizations because of recent actions by some here in the States. Not so. My changing has nothing to do with anyone from the States, so don’t go there please. Okay, so next you think, “Alain’s changing organizations to hop around and get higher rank, and I thought he didn’t care about all that. What about all the relationship stuff he talks about and not caring about rank and certificates?” Well, I’m not changing any of that either. I still believe that relationships with instructors, students and fellow martial artists are far more important that any organizational patch on your uniform or certificate on the wall. So why change? It is simple, my instructors in Korea have changed. They are operating their schools under this new organization now. Therefore, I will stay with those instructors I have a relationship with and greatly respect, and get more rank from them through the new organization they belong to. It is the instruction they provide and the people they are that matters to me, not what certificate they give me. At this time I know very little about this new organization. I spoke with my instructor in Korea a month or so ago and he told me he was now affiliated with this organization rather than the Dae-han Hapkido Hyup-hwe. There were several reasons, and those were political I’m sure, but we didn’t discuss them that much. I do know that the Hanguk Hapkido Yun-maeng is recognized by the Korean government, just as the Dae-han Hapkido Hyup-hwe is. (as are several others, there are 5 that are recognized out of around 40 organizations in Korea) This means that a dan rank from this organization meets the requirements for police officers, etc. (One reason a school in Korea needs to be under one of these government recognized schools is so students wanting to be police officers and such can get the required rank) As far as the organization being better or inferior to any others, you can’t say. Again, organizations are made up of people. I know my instructors, who they are and what they can do and teach. That makes them first rate in my book, no matter what organization. And if you are a 7th dan in one organization and then change to another organization, aren’t you the same person? Don’t you have the same skills? Organization doesn’t mean as much as who you are. I do know that Kwanjangnim Kim has known President Park for a long time. President Park is also the president of a chiropractic organization in Korea, and Kwanjangnim has been a chiropractor for years too, and has run this practice out of an office next to his Hapkido school. So, that is why I’ll now be affiliated with a different Hapkido organization. As I learn more, I’ll let those that are interested know. Train Hard. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest