Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:30:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #523 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Guns training in martial arts (Jye nigma) 2. Re: Gun Stuff... (Jye nigma) 3. Hapkido history (Barrie Restall) 4. Marketing gimmick (Beungood@aol.com) 5. BJJ proved on TV? (Beungood@aol.com) 6. WOW, what a weekend!!!! (Braeswood Martial Arts) 7. AAU NGB? (Manuel Maldonado) 8. RE: Are law enforcement encounter data representative of self def ense (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Re: Re: Meditation (eleusis) 10. Re: Re: Stats on ending up on the ground (John Frankl) 11. Re: Hapkido history (Ray Terry) 12. Re: Guns training in martial arts (Ray Terry) 13. Re: 90% ground fight stats (John Frankl) 14. Re: Re: Chokes (John Frankl) 15. Re: Re: On-the-ground stuff (John Frankl) 16. Re: Re: Ground Fighting Citation (John Frankl) 17. Re: BJJ et al (John Frankl) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:58:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Guns training in martial arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net now the reason I asked was because when I worked at the CNN center a journalist once told me that when they were going to go overseas in hostile countries, they had to be trained to learn certain things one of which was to use an AK-47. This is to show them how to tell if the rifle is on safety or not. Now I was told that they CAN NOT have guns, so by them being able to tell if it's on safety or not, they can determine if they want to try and fight someone with one pointed at them. Do you teach things like that as well? Jye Ray Terry wrote: Yes, after a fashion... As a California and NRA certified firearms instructor (and a certified instructor of instructors), I teach firearms safety as well as tactical use. I make this info available to our students in separate training sessions. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:13:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gun Stuff... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just found it interesting how certain schools include gun training yet others didn't. I'm from the city, live in ATL (which I don't really consider a city YET). We do have alot of shooting ranges here in GA, but I'm more interested in learning disarming philosophy you know? I have to admit, my father taught me how to shoot, but most of my real time applications have been in the streets unfortunately. But I often wonder why some systems never did include them you know as time went on. Jye Eric Walker wrote: We haven't practiced any of the disarming techniques in class yet, but I know they are coming. I have sort of picked up on the fact that you live in a major city (?). I guess it's not as easy to find an outdoor place to practice your shooting, but I would suggest that you look into an indoor range. There certainly isn't anything scary or weird about guns, as someone had mentioned earlier, they are simply tools. Familiarization with the tool helps to de-mystify and to learn to train for situations where they may be used against you. Like Master West said, if you have a familiarization with the weapon, whether it be a knife or gun, stick or sword, you minimize the "OH SH*T!" factor when facing it in real life. Just my two cents worth... Sincerely, Eric _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Barrie Restall" To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:32:34 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jesse and others, It is just too easy too present conjecture as fact, better to do a little delving and keep an open mind. DJ Choi taught DJ Kim, and others, a very systematic and complex martial art in his later life. DJ Kim calls this curriculum Hapkiyusul and has written down the curriculum; I have seen it up to 5th Dan. The curriculum contains 16 kicks which DJ Choi said Takeda taught him, There are twisting kicks similar to GM Ji's. There are no spinning kicks or turning kicks. As well, one layer of the complex follows the wrist, elbow etc sequence ending up with chokes. By studying the Hapkiyusul curriculum and mainline Hapkido it is possible to see the similarities and differences. There is no doub that DJ Choi knew a very complex and sophisticated curriculum and appears to have taught part of it to his early students, as elements of it persist in mainline Hapkido, including the basic sequence. Is it just coincidence that GM Ji 'organised' DJ Choi's teachings?. I might conjecture that its highly unlikely as DJ Choi knew a very systematic teaching method. Did GM Ji add elements and reorganise? Most likely. This is not to put down anyones contribution to Modern Hapkido, just to minimise the conjecture and not jump to conclusions, and to consider alternate scenarios. As far as other influences on hapkido, historical curiosity is a legitimate pursuit in its own right irrespective of the art practised. Why do you people think Chin Na is so similar to the jujitsu arts? Go for it Bruce. Kind regards, Barrie Restall --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:43:44 -0500 From: Beungood@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Marketing gimmick Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 11/19/2003 9:57:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Its just a marketing gimmick. (ie. maybe a lot of fights end up on the > ground. If they do we can capitalize on a weak spot in MA > most folks don't > address.) Comments? I think alot of it IS a marketing gimmick. On my job Ive been to countless fights and I don't think it was 90% in favor of going to ground. Every confrontation is dynamic and unpredictable. Our training should hel;p us avoid , no? I can't see letting anyone commit and take me to the ground before I mount my defense. What about multiple attackers? Jack --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:47:29 -0500 From: Beungood@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ proved on TV? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 11/19/2003 9:57:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Then he proved it on > pay per view. Since then thousands of BJJ students have > proven it in > thousands of situations. I have to dis-agree with this statement. He did win the MATCH under controlled conditions, with RULES. Would he still have won if other techniques were allowed to be used? I couldnt see falling to the ground to end a confrontation with more than one opponent. Jack --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:12:40 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] WOW, what a weekend!!!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, I returned from training with Grand Master Timmerman and have to say as always I received more then I gave. It was wonderful to be back in my home dojang in SSM Ontario and to be able to train with such great martial artists was a true honor. To see the masters of different styles and backgrounds come together and support and help each other re-established to me what martial arts is all about. I am grateful to all who were there to help me over the wall with my injury. Even though the purpose was to push ourselves we were always there to help each other and put safety first. I would also like to thank all of those from the DD who have taken their personal time to call or send me an email of congratulations. It means so much to have such a large martial arts family. Thank you all!!!! Looking forward to seeing everyone in March and look for Master Timmerman to be down south again summer 2004. Kat --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:14:38 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] AAU NGB? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net  The AAU is going to be a NGB? Thats a joke in a half right? As most of you know I live in Los Angeles California. They (AAU) isn't even active here. Since I don't have a credit card I sent in a money order. well nobody dose patches I've gotten the run around by several people out here.Theres a GM Moon, Im who supposedly is the president or head honcho out here. Well he dosnt do or support the AAU. Actually said that I practice Coomie TaeKwon-Do. To me the AAU is like any other organization out there all they want is your hard earned money. Now my students are out the $12.00 or $14.00 that we sent in since we haven't even got our membership cards yet. We purchased memberships and patches. Man a sucker is born every minute and I'm sick and tired of being suckered. My advise stay away from such organizations. Master Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:36:26 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Are law enforcement encounter data representative of self def ense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark, You made a really good point here. I am not an officer, but if my intent was to restrain and control someone, then I would want to try and put them on the ground too. And that is definitely not what I would want to do if I were defending myself and not worried about restraining or controlling the attacker. Most of the studies about fights I've heard people talk about were from police studies. I wonder if they are really representative of non-law enforcement goal conflicts? Maybe not so much? Danny Dunn <<<<<<>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "eleusis" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Meditation Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:28:26 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir, Thank you for your input. What method do you personally use? Breath counting, vision fixation or closed eyes? Suggestions? Rich Chicago Ill. ----- Original Message ----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:20 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Meditation Dear Rich: "......I have been doing TKD for just at a year now. To improve and hone my spirit I have been learning some about breathing methods of Zen but also reconnecting with my Christian spiritual roots......" Kudo-s for investing yourself in this manner. I would want to throw a couple of cautions your way to consider. 1.) The mind is much more powerful than most folks imagine. Regardless what nay-sayers might state, creative visualization, daily affirmations, the "power of suggestion", and mental imagery have all been used as methods of shaping consequences in the physical world. Probably the most common application is in the area of pain managment and terminal progressive illness such as cancer. For this reason I think its important to have a clear objective in mind as you begin such programs. 2.) Allow for accomodation. The four planes that make up the human person - -- body, intellect, emotion and spirit ARE all related of course, however each separate plane operates according to its own laws which may be similar to the laws of another plane but are certainly not identical. As You make changes in one plane other planes are influenced. That is after all what you are advocating and it is certainly a fact--- at least in my world. Meditation is more than sitting quitely contemplating a truth for a while and then getting up to go about your daily business. The physical act of sitting and contemplating is a way of incurring an influence whose effects will reververate at their own speed across all the planes of your person. Think of dropping a stone in a pond and waiting for the concentric rings to reach the shore from the middle and bounce back--- it takes time. Allow time for your meditation to work its influence both in the immediate (sufficent quiet time dedicated each day) but also in the extended time frame (a regular time designated for each day for, say, a month). FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Stats on ending up on the ground Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:03:01 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps. In any case, no adult should be getting in fights anyway. 99% are completely avoidable. The other 1% are more like muggings than "fights. They are unavoidable and may wind up anywhere. John >From: Pete Knox >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Stats on ending up on the ground >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:37:16 -0500 > >My understanding was that the 90% figure came from institutional fights involving law enforcement. In such a context, the high number makes sense, as a law enforcement officer would want to take someone to the ground so as to handcuff or otherwise immobilize them. Black Belt ran an article on this a few months back; they also mentioned that the non law enforcement number is most likely lower. > >Pete Knox >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >peterknox@optonline.net >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido history To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:07:00 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The curriculum contains 16 kicks which DJ Choi said Takeda taught him, ... Of course the question we'd all love to have answered is exactly when and where did Choi train with Takeda, if ever. He is unknown to the Takeda family, never lived with them nor worked for them nor was adpoted by them, so.?. Unfortunately Gm Choi's story changed many times over the years, so we'll probably never discover what he learned and from whom. Clearly he learned something from someone, but that is about all we know for sure... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Guns training in martial arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:08:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This is to show them how to tell if the rifle is on safety or not. Now I > was told that they CAN NOT have guns, so by them being able to tell if > it's on safety or not, they can determine if they want to try and fight > someone with one pointed at them. > > Do you teach things like that as well? No, that is not part of my syllabus. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 90% ground fight stats Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:08:30 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Right on, Mark. Another statistics game. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that only 50% of fights go to the ground. This still provides no argument against groundfighting, because 50% is still a heck of a lot higher than the fights that end with spin kicks or wrist locks, and because the detractors do not dedicate 50% or even 10% of their training to effective ground fighting. John >From: tntcombatives@comcast.net >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] 90% ground fight stats >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:54:00 +0000 > >Exit lurk mode... > >Greetings All, > >I seem to remember that the LAPD conducted a use of force study several years ago that had the number in the 70% range. They continued to track the on-duty incidents while increasing/changing? officer training in the area of patrol combatives to include ground fighting/grappling instead of the punch-em-out-then-polyester-pile-them training. They found that the rate of fights that went to the ground increased to above 90%. If someone wants to dig for that study--more power to ya. > >I know that on duty when I get into a scrap, I always try to ground the suspect...in fact I think my % is about 100 for the last 7 years. > >I train my police students the same way. I just find it much easier to unbalance and toss someone (which can be done gently or accelerated) who is resistive rather than mess around in a stand up waltz. > > >-- >Mark Gajdostik >TNT-Police Combatives >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Chokes Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:16:09 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, All good questions. Poorly applied chokes can be very dangerous. I don't teach them with a baton; they are no better, often worse, and always more potentially harmful than naked chokes. I also do not teach chokes against the trachea for the same reasons. When I write "choke," I refer to limiting oxygen to the brain by constricting the carotid arteries. The crook of the elbow is aligned with the trachea, providing room for continued breathing and so that no damage is done to the trachea. The pressure is not applied front and back in a shearing motion, but equally from the sides. Oxygen enters the lungs, but never makes it to the brain. Very safe, very quick, very effective, very humane. And none of us should overlook the humane part, for both moral and legal reasons. John >From: >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chokes >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:32:12 -0600 (CST) > >Dear John: > >"......I teach a lot of LEOs and they give me story after story of 160# >men on >PCP resisting and fighting with an officer on each wrist and ankle (4 >officers total) twisting and wrenching with all their latest wrist and >ankle locks. Joint locks/pain compliance do not work in many situations. >Properly applied chokes, OTOH, end the problem in a manner of seconds, >and are much more humane......." > >I had begun to thought that the use of chokes was being dissuaded in LEO >training due to liability in training and on the street. Students hate >those nights when I go into choke training, and I make sure that we always >limit it to one or two techniques per night and intersperse it with very >active techniques before and after to get people back to "the-here-and- >now" before leaving class. Have guidelines for the use of chokes changed >nationally or are you speaking of policies just in your immediate area? >Are these techniques which incoporate the use of an item such as a baton? > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: On-the-ground stuff Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:21:49 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Comments. 1. Typical KMA, and many other MA, knife defenses are criminally dangerous and anyone teaching them is very irresponsible. Ray and anyone else with FMA experience, to say nothing of hardened criminals, would see the gaping holes in such defenses. 2. If you cannot fight on the ground, you cannot fight. Period. John >From: >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: On-the-ground stuff >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:59:21 -0600 (CST) > >Dear Folks: > >I saw something very interesting on the TV this morning and I thought I >would share it for whatever comments people would like to make. > >The news show aired a story about people in their teens and early 20-s >video taping fights of a sort of "fight club" type. What struck me was the >all-out ferocity of those attacks. Discounting for a minute the fact that >these were not actually fights in the sense of wanting to do permanent >damage to another person I was struck at the all-out aggressive nature. It >reminded me of a similar program I had seen once on prison "hits" where >murder was done among inmates using ice-picks or "shanks". There also I >was astounded by the savage speed at which these attacks were done. Add to >that the fact that the kicking and punching and gouging never stopped even >as people fell from a standing position to the ground and began rolling >about. It brought to mind a couple of extremely aggressive sword styles >from the Satsuma clan in southern Japan whose very defensive techniques >are still aggressive strikes. > >There is, I think, a place in the typical KMA training that may not be >meeting a need here. I wonder if folks want to comment on this based on >their own training regimes. > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Ground Fighting Citation Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:34:15 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "BTW: I don't know how relevant this is to the discussion but Hapkido does have its ground fighting, and so does Kumdo. In either case it is not as though one would actual seek to combat another person under those circumstance but rather is responding to a situation in which one finds themselves (ie. position of disadvantage). In this way, I don't know that I would be disposed towards purposely taking a person to the ground, but if thats where we wound up I would need to be able to deal with it. Best Wishes, Bruce" I think this is very relevant. Having ground techniques, and having a ground game are totally different. Yes, I learned seated techniques (jwagi) and lying techiques (wagi) back in the day, but they were totally ridiculous. They simply do not work against a resisting opponent. The idea that you can elbow lock an opponent who is mounted on you and then force him to dismount is totally contrary to both common sense and physics. The inclusion of the technique itself in a martial art's syllabus demonstrates the fact that its teachers and practitioners are not ground fighting.  Secondly, I find the fact that post-UFC you see TKD guys like Hee Il Cho and Wing Chun guys like Emin Boztepe shamelessly marketing their arts' heretofore secret ground fighting techniques. This reveals tremendous insecurity in what they do. They are terrified because they know they would be all but helpless on the ground. Contrast this with, for example, Rickson Gracie. How many Black Belt articles have you seen in which Rickson reveals the hidden jump spinning kicks of BJJ? None! Because Rickson in comfortable with his art as it is. He is not insecure and so feels no need to misrepresent himself or his art. This is a very important distinction and one worth pondering. John  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] BJJ et al Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:35:26 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Our Country": Changing Images of the Foreign in Korean Literature and Culture >From: "Burdick, Dakin R" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: "Dojang Digest" >Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ et al >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:18 -0500 > >For John Frankl -- Your dissertation sounds like a good read -- what is >the citation? > >For Rudy Timmerman -- I'm actually pretty happy I never had to train >with Pak. I think he would have torn me up! But I'm glad that Will >Widmeyer went through all that and then kept the torch going! > >Kirk Lawson wrote: This is the same Brad Parker article, not a Dossey >article. > >My reply: Oops! You're right! My mistake! > >Kirk also wrote: Are you suggesting that Dossey ingored altergations >that didn't end up "on the ground" in order to skew his results? > >My reply: No. I'm suggesting that his practice of BJJ perhaps >influenced the design and reasoning of his argument. If he studied BJJ, >his belief going into the study would be that people go to the ground. >Rather than confirming that, I suggest that a better research topic >might have been to figure out how to avoid going to the ground. > >Yours in the arts, > >Dakin >dakinburdick@yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP spam with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest