Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:46:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #525 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Gun Thread (Charles Richards) 2. AAU as an NGB (Charles Richards) 3. RE: BJJ et al (Kirk Lawson) 4. RE: _Ground_Fighting_Citati (Kirk Lawson) 5. Re: AAU as an NGB (Ray Terry) 6. RE: Are law enforcement enc (Kirk Lawson) 7. Hapkido Legends and myths (Jesse Segovia) (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 8. Crossfit (Stovall, Craig) 9. RE: Chicken or the Egg (Stovall, Craig) 10. Re: aau cards (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 11. Re:Waiting periods between belt tests (Dan Monjar) 12. Re:RE: Gup time in grade (Dan Monjar) 13. Re: BJJ proved on TV? (Ray Terry) 14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_HUH=3F=3F=3F?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:38:21 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gun Thread Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I just found it interesting how certain schools include gun training yet others didn't. I'm from the city, live in ATL (which I don't really consider a city YET). We do have alot of shooting ranges here in GA, but I'm more interested in learning disarming philosophy you know? I have to admit, my father taught me how to shoot, but most of my real time applications have been in the streets unfortunately. But I often wonder why some systems never did include them you know as time went on. <> Jye, Interesting point. As I've posted before, I try to include weapons that could be carried or found in everyday life. Or add some dimension to training (sword). Looking at the world through my "what is the thusness of a technique" glasses (sifu Lee), it would seem to make sense to use the Glock .40 or Colt .45ACP in lieu of traditional stone throwing as a mid-range projectile weapon. But then again rock throwing is "traditional" and rock-like projectiles can be found in everyday surroundings. Hmmm..... BTW, you posted that you are in the ATL. I am 40 miles NW of the airport up I575 in Cherokee County. Let's start an off-list thread to see if we can share some mat time? Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:13:59 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: pauls@sullivanstkd.com, tkdbill@pacbell.net Subject: [The_Dojang] AAU as an NGB Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> The AAU is going to be a NGB? Thats a joke in a half right? As most of you know I live in Los Angeles California. They (AAU) isn't even active here. Since I don't have a credit card I sent in a money order. well nobody dose patches I've gotten the run around by several people out here.Theres a GM Moon, Im who supposedly is the president or head honcho out here. Well he dosnt do or support the AAU. Actually said that I practice Coomie TaeKwon-Do. To me the AAU is like any other organization out there all they want is your hard earned money. Now my students are out the $12.00 or $14.00 that we sent in since we haven't even got our membership cards yet. We purchased memberships and patches. Man a sucker is born every minute and I'm sick and tired of being suckered. My advise stay away from such organizations. <> Dear Master Maldonado, I am sorry you had this experience. FWIW, I have had a good experience with the AAU here in Georgia (Master James Henry) and with our sister associations in TN (Master Kim Cerami) and North Carolina (Master David Sgro). It sounds like you had a bad experience with your state representative. I think you can resolve your issues with a little follow up work. 1. As to patches, rule books, AAU ties and Coaches shirts. It has been a poor logistic in the past, but all these items are now available through www.teknousa.com (sorry for the plug Ray). I got my last ties and Coaches shirts in about 3-4 days via UPS ground. 2. As to registration cards. It's good that you paid with a check/money order because you have trackable proof of payment. Contact your Assosiation Director (I'm not sure which in CA so I'll give both) and explain what happened. Central CA Pacific Paul Sullivan Bill Dewart 681 S. Madera Ave., Ste 109 988 Oak Street Kerman, CA 93630 San Francisco, CA 94117 559-846-3222 415-668-8173 pauls@sullivanstkd.com tkdbill@pacbell.net As you can see GM Moon,Im is apperntly not "in-charge" of any AAU activities in California. Please contact Master Bill Dewart or Master Paul Sullivan directly. Good Luck! Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:00:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] BJJ et al Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:18 -0500 > From: "Burdick, Dakin R" > To: "Dojang Digest" > Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ et al > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Kirk also wrote: Are you suggesting that Dossey ingored altergations > that didn't end up "on the ground" in order to skew his results? > > My reply: No. I'm suggesting that his practice of BJJ perhaps > influenced the design and reasoning of his argument. If he > studied BJJ, > his belief going into the study would be that people go to the ground. > Rather than confirming that, I suggest that a better research topic > might have been to figure out how to avoid going to the ground. That would be an applicable study if it was determined that a significant number of altercations "go to the ground." If they don't, then it's wasted time, right? Now, how should he determine whether or not it's useful to study how not to be taken to the ground? By looking to see how often it happens. Hence, the first study. Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] _Ground_Fighting_Citati Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:03:32 -0600 (CST) > From: > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Ground_Fighting_Citation?= > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm not interested in debating the stat or the use of ground > fighting. I > was simply interested in knowing where this much represented > stat came > from. It seems to pop-up so casually in seminars and presentations. To the best of my ability, that's it. > I seem to be reading that the source is either Parker or > Dossey but in > either case the represented % was exaggerated from 60 to 90. > Am I even close? Yes. Dossey. > I am also still not certain if the focus, then, is to > willfully take the > offender off their feet as a tactic, or to simply know what > to do should > one be taken down when attacked. Both, depending upon what you want. Remember, Dossey's study was done before BJJ training for the LAPD was integrated into the curriculum. It found that a statistically significant number of LEO/Civilian altercations ended up "on the ground" with that in mind, "ground fighting" training seems logical for LAPD LEO's for the second reason. However, most ground fighters assert with great confidence that the majority of people have no idea what to do in "ground fighting" and are therefore easily and quickly dominated without significant injury. This is a second reason why LEO's might want to try to *force* it to the ground. YMMV. > My guess is that a large portion of > that motive comes from wanting to subdue the person rather than > incapacitate or damage him, yes? Yes. > BTW: I don't know how relevant this is to the discussion but > Hapkido does have its ground fighting, The canned response from BJJ proponents is that many arts have some amount of ground fighting or grappling in them but they are not practiced in a way that will allow the martial artist to learn to use them against a fully resisting oponent. Further this gives the martial artist no way of knowing which ground fighting techniques are the "high percentage," bread-n-butter techniques that he should use all the time and which ones are the "low percentage," Hail-Marry's that should be rarely (if ever) used. > and so does Kumdo. The Korean name for Judo. > In either case it is not as > though one would actual seek to combat another person under those > circumstance Some do. > but rather is responding to a situation in which > one finds > themselves (ie. position of disadvantage). In this way, I > don't know that > I would be disposed towards purposely taking a person to the > ground, but > if thats where we wound up I would need to be able to deal with it. If you were in a war and were told that the enemy's infantry and tanks were on a par with your (or that you just didn't know for sure which was better) but your enemy's air power was 50 years behind yours, 1/4 the number of yours, and their pilots were poorly trained teenagers, then you were told that you could choose to engage the enemy either with ground forces or with air forces, which would you choose? Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] AAU as an NGB To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:15:57 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Central CA Pacific > Paul Sullivan Bill Dewart > 681 S. Madera Ave., Ste 109 988 Oak Street > Kerman, CA 93630 San Francisco, CA 94117 > 559-846-3222 415-668-8173 > pauls@sullivanstkd.com tkdbill@pacbell.net > > As you can see GM Moon,Im is apperntly not "in-charge" of any AAU > activities in California. Please contact Master Bill Dewart or Master > Paul Sullivan directly. I don't know Paul Sullivan, but Prof. Dewart is a fine gentleman and a llloooonnnnngggggg time TKD player. I believe he came up under Silak Henry Cho (NYC) back in the 1960s. Of course, both Kerman and San Francisco are a long way from LA, but worth a try. You might check with Prof. Dewart first and see what he has to say. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:21:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Are law enforcement enc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" > To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" > > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:36:26 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Are law enforcement encounter data > representative > of self > def ense > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Most of the studies about fights I've heard people talk about > were from police > studies. I wonder if they are really representative of > non-law enforcement goal conflicts? I would contend that LEO studies can not be applied with any predictive value to the broader civilian population. The initiative, goals, and procedures for LEO's are different then for the broader civilian population. Unfortunately, there are not any studies tracking the broader civilian population. In fact, it may be impossible to accurately collect data on civilian altercations ("Street Fights"). It leaves one to try to shoehorn inapplicable studies to broader circumstances. Most frustrating. Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:32:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Legends and myths (Jesse Segovia) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jesse, every year this comes up and we have the same discussion. Please note that I said 'mainstream' hapkido. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:52:53 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Crossfit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I wouldn't call myself a crossfitter since I don't follow the WOD, but yes, they have had a PROFOUND impact on my definition of fitness as well as being a great source for information. I would say that I do a modified version of crossfit. They really turned me on to the anaerobic pathways, and their importance in true physical fitness/athletic performance. They have most definitely converted me forever away from all of the Mickey Mouse isolation lifts, and I now concentrate fully on compound movements (O-lifts, thrusters, swings, etc.). Also, I think it was their site that I first picked up on the Tabata protocol. Haven't gotten into the gymnastics stuff yet, but I 100% believe in where they are coming from on that front. I think it's safe to say that an athlete who has a solid foundation of General Physical Preparedness through a combination of compound lifting (O-lifts, et al), gymnastics, and multi-modal sprinting can pretty much move into any physical arena they want and perform at levels approaching elite within a fairly short period of more sport specific training. This includes martial arts in my book. That about sums up the philosophy that I've adopted from them. I also got turned onto Dan John and his website from the Crossfit forum. Dan really shares a lot of good info at his site, and folks would do well to heed some of the sage advice that he's picked up from the old-timers and is now passing on...free of charge I might add. He really convinced me about the Olympic lifts and their variations. Particularly, the overhead squat. I've incorporated that as one of my core movements over the last few weeks, and I can already tell a profound difference in terms of core strength, hip extension, and general posture. If I had to answer the old theoretical question "if you could only do one exercise", that one would definitely make the finalists that I had to choose from. I also like what Tyler Haas and that crew are doing with their Girevik magazine...I think they call it Power Athlete Magazine now? I haven't seen Brooks Kubrik's materials, but I like his dinosaur concept. Charles Staley is cool too, but he's becoming the Matt Furey of sports conditioning...I feel like he's just trying to sell me something. Oh well, everybody's gotta eat. The great thing about Crossfit and Dan John is that they are this tremendous source of information, and they're just giving it away. I used to do a little bit of Furey's stuff, but I can no longer recommend his material. The Tabata protocol with squats beats the living dog crap out of sitting there doing endless Hindu squats, plus I'm not sold on the fact that squatting on the toes with the knees that far forward is completely safe. All squatting can be inherently dangerous when done incorrectly, but those Hindus just don't feel right to me. I'll keep my heels on the ground, thank you very much. And overhead squatting will build more back/core strength than all of the bridging in the world...IMHO. That about does it for me. Keep going with the Crossfit stuff...I think they're on the leading edge! Craig Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:19:53 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chicken or the Egg Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> You're probably talking about Kazushi Sakuraba. He has on numerous occasions thwarted the open guard game of opponents by simply jumping straight over their legs and stomping with both feet as he lands. He was also one of the first to use the cartwheel guard pass in MMA competition. One of my favorites was when he fought Anthony Macias...Macias was on his back in an open guard, and Sak comes running in with a baseball slide around the guys legs and kicks him in the face. <<>> What's sillier is the fact that we've yet to see a traditional martial artist thwart this simple tactic. For people who train for the "real deal"...like taking on multiple opponents...you'd think it would be simple enough to thwart a takedown from the standing clinch. What's interesting is the fact that the Gracies and company have continued to evolve so much in the last 10 years...quite frankly, it's a wonder to watch. Circa 1993, the GJJ/BJJ takedown game consisted mostly of straight shoots to double/single leg takedowns, and tripping an opponent backward from a chest-to-chest clinch with double underhooks. Up to that point, this had been sufficient to put people where they wanted them. Well, when wrestlers like Kenny Monday, Kevin Jackson, Don Frye and Mark Kerr starting getting into the MMA scene, these simple takedowns didn't work so well anymore. Wrestlers who knew how to sprawl were thwarting the shoots, and their pummeling skills from the standing clinch nullified the basic trip. So, the BJJ guys starting cross-training in wrestling and learning more technical ways to ground someone...and the art took another leap forward. Meanwhile, the "real deal" crowd is still sitting at home pouting, and talking about how they'd show the world what's up if only eye-gouging and nut grabbing were allowed. Let me tell you something...those rules are to keep the athletic commissions off of their backs so that they can carry on events in public venues...not to mention the fact that the cable and satellite companies won't air something that's a pure bloodsport. Behind closed doors is a different story. I know for a fact that there are boys out there carrying the GJJ/BJJ banner that will accommodate just about any "rules" (or lack thereof) that you can think of. Eye gouging and finger locks sound really good up until the point that you find yourself on your back, and then you realize that the guy who's mounted on you can do anything he pleases. Forget about "dirty tactics" people...you can grab someone's wad without ever having stepped inside a dojang. Having a positional ground game is a different story...that indicates skill, knowledge, and training. Respect it. Ryan Gracie had a challenge match in Brazil way back in the day with one of these "I can gouge my way out of those holds" suckers. Ryan sent that fool home with part of his ear missing! I'm not trying to beat the BJJ drum. I'm just saying don't call it silly until you can keep one these guys from putting you on your back and keeping you there with impunity. And thank you to everyone for pointing out the fact that you don't want to go the ground against multiple opponents. What a revelation! Here's one to return the favor...don't stick your tongue in a light socket. You cannot fight two or more people and be successful in the long-run unless you are Warren Sapp and they are the Mr. Furley twins. Now, I know Grandmaster's like to throw their students around in pairs and sets of three, and there's a lot of you that believe this trick just like you believe David Blaine really levitates. And there's always the exception...I was jumped by three people at a park one time, and actually "won" the frigging fight!!! But, that's because the two pups decided they weren't emotionally invested in the outcome once I had taken the alpha male of the litter and proceeded to apply a front kick to his manhood followed with a straight blast to his melon. If they had really been out for blood, I would have been beaten without mercy...and all the Steven Seagal moves in the world would not have stopped it. If someone threatens you...run. If they have a friend...run faster. Words to live by. Craig "Not a Paid Endorser for Gracie Jiu-jitsu" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:34:52 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: aau cards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net master maldonado, you might want to call or email them. usually, they can email you a copy, or give you a link to where you can print out your membership and club cards. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:37:11 -0500 From: Dan Monjar Subject: Re:[The_Dojang] Waiting periods between belt tests To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --On Tuesday, November 18, 2003 03:01:55 AM -0800 the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > From: "Keith Causton" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:30:36 -0500 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Waiting periods between belt tests > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Hello all! > > I just wanted to poll everyone's opinion on how long a student should > train before he/she should be allowed to go for their next belt test. I > personally think that there should be at LEAST a three month waiting > period in which the student should practise getting their new pattern > down as well as everything else that they must know according to the clud > they go to. My club, and I'm sure there are others, test coloured belts > every month; basicly to real in the cash. Some students only show up to > class about two times a week, which means that they are only getting > eight classes before their next test. (provided they dont practice at > home, which most of them at my club don't, and should.) That is just not > enough and I wanted to see if other people agree with me. Also, what are > some of the waiting periods between belt tests for some of your clubs? > > Thanks, > > Keith  Our school uses a minimum of 16 classes between tests... you must also earn three stripes or 'tips' to be invited to test. These stripes, which are white and go on the right side of the tied belt, are presented by the master at the end of normal classes. Presumably when he feels you've well learned a certain part of the current requirements. It seems to be a pretty well balanced scheme to me. You have a minimum number of classes to attend, but at the same time it is not a guarantee that you'll test after 16. -- Dan -- Daniel Monjar IS Manager, Technical Services bioMérieux, Inc. Durham, NC US --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:00 -0500 From: Dan Monjar Subject: Re:[The_Dojang] RE: Gup time in grade To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --On Tuesday, November 18, 2003 07:18:02 AM -0800 the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" > To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" > > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:22:42 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Gup time in grade > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Keith, > > It take kids about 6 - 6.5 years to get to dan, and about 4 for adults > that make > 4 hours of in-class training a week. That is 2 classes, as my classes > are 2 hours long except for the younger kids below green belt. You can > do the math based on the gup system your school uses. Remember, the > quality of the student > depends on the quality of instructor and the time spent training. I know all is relative but how intense are these 2 hours? Are you running 'full bore' for 120 minutes or are there breaks? I ask because my classes are 50 minutes and we are pretty wiped afterward. Or maybe I'm a wuss... -- Dan -- Daniel Monjar IS Manager, Technical Services bioMérieux, Inc. Durham, NC US --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] BJJ proved on TV? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:02:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To your first question, almost certainly. If rules are removed, imagine > the following. You are mounted. You are unable to escape from this > position. In desparation you bite, or eye gouge, or whatever. It does not > kill your opponent. It does anger him, and escalate the level of > violence. He can then return 1,000 fold whatever tactics you employed. > The difference? He is in a position to do it effectively and > continuously, whereas you are only in a position to suffer. On the other hand... A proper eye gouge takes out the eye. A proper bite removes a hunk of meat, save through heavy clothing. When I've seen either of these used the fight pretty much ended asap as the person having a hunk of meat removed or eye removed jumped up and looked for immediate medical attention. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:40 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_HUH=3F=3F=3F?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: "......My good luck and prayers go out to Master Nabors who is deploying to Bagdad this week. As some of you know Master Nabors is employed by the SOCOM and CENTCOM agencies and he has recieved info that he is to leave this week for not so greener pastures far away from the Tampa Bay area and McDill...... Good Luck Master Nabors and Godspeed on your journey and work.. see you when you get back brother...." I was sure that he had relocated to that area some time ago. Had he gone and come back? Good Luck to him. What comes his way, please remind him that its never a good idea to pick your head up to see where it came from!! :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest