Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:19:01 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #526 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Waiting periods between belt tests (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_attribution?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Self-abuse_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_Styles_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Ground fighting (Randall Sexton) 6. Best wishes (Rudy Timmerman) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Ground_fighting?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Wearing the white belt (Rudy Timmerman) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Quick_Thanks_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. Time for Gup Grade (Charles Richards) 11. "Divided Nation" Symposium, Dec. 12 (Ray Terry) 12. Re: BJJ proved on TV? (John Frankl) 13. Re: Ground fighting (John Frankl) 14. Re: Wearing the white belt (John Frankl) 15. ending a fight, frequently (Ray Terry) 16. Hapkido forms ? (Ray Terry) 17. Long Time no type (L. Veuleman) 18. Re: Old Time Training/rank question (John Frankl) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:11:31 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Waiting periods between belt tests To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In regaurds to rank testing. Depending on the rank itself, decides on the length of time the martial artist holds his/her rank. Considering of course that they have made it to the aloted hours of class as well as knows his/her requirements. For the beginner ranks ie. Yellow/Orange, Blue the holder usually holds those for 3months (16) classes as well. Once that student reaches Blue belt he/she is expected to hold that rank for approx. 6months (32) classes to move on to Green belt. Once he/she gets the greenbelt 5th kyu, it is held for 6 to 9 months as is the next following rank Purple belt 4th kyu again held for 9months-1yr. the Brown belt 3,2,1 kyu is held for no less than 1 yr. this puts the student at at least 3 to 4 yrs to reach black belt. Some do take the extended 4 or 5 yr route depending on their training and such. thanks Cory Ballinger I.M.A.A. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:14:57 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_attribution?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jesse: "...... But from everything I've seen, the majority of Hapkido instructors still basically teach GM Ji's curriculum....." FWIW to me assigning authority to a single person in Hapkido is like assigning authority of Karate to a single person. One can easily make the arguement that Funakoshi did an incredible job spreading Shotokan around the orient by taking it to Japan and his son and Nakayama and Nishiyama spread it to the West. However there are still other folks like Oshima who did their part, and there are still other forms of Karate-- some related to Shotokan like Wado-ryu and some not--- such as Goju-ryu, Shorinji-ryu kempo, Matsumura Seito Orthodox and Uechi-ryu. Joo Bang Lee, In Hyuk Suh, and other still teach Hapkido albeit by another name. If you want to continue to trumpet Ji as though he were the owner of some sort of proprietary information well and good. Maybe he needed to copyright and trademark his material like the KSW people did. Now hes' just one more guy on the seminar circuit. A great man to be sure, but just one among several. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:04:56 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Self-abuse_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Kevin: "...... Martial Artists who have been accepted to become personal students of Grandmaster Timmerman....." I thought I would offer my services as a licensed counselor in case any of this demented group would like to address their personal issues. Unfortunately I am not licensed to dispense anti-biotics so if any of you hard cases come down with pneumonia from yer little swim I am afraid you are out of luck! I will also share that some parts of me reacted strongly at the mere thought of 34 degree water! :-) I will say with all humor put to one side that a teachers' role is to set the bar of such a height that people can learn more about themselves. As always, it sounds like Rudy hit that squarely. Congratulations to all of those who will be priveleged to train under Rudy on a regular basis. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:10:57 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_Styles_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Gordon: Small world. The very first Hapkido school I ever spend time in was GM Hyuns' school down on Western. Of course it has changed significantly since 1985 as he has taken over pretty much that whole section of the block. As far as curriculum and teaching standards things don't sound like they have changed much except that maybe he has brough in more help from Korea. I understood that he was leaning a bit more towards Kuk Sool kind of material for a while or maybe that was just a momentary phase. I wasn't sure what sort of things you were looking for and it somehow appeared unseemly to compare his approach with others. How about a bit more to go on? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:46:50 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ground fighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I don't think I proved any of your points. John does Native American grappling which is different from BJJ pig wrestling. He doesn't advocate going to the ground...neither do I. The principles he advocates are to enable one to stay on their feet so your statement, "Only because he was a highly skilled grappler could he opt to keep the fight standing" doesn't really apply. He trains not to go to the ground...so do I. I don't need years of BJJ to keep me standing; I just need to know what BJJ guys like to do and train to prevent it. I know one instructor that says if your teacher can't teach you to stay on your feet, you need a new instructor. Any ground training I do is geared to getting up as quickly as possible. Randall Sexton "Results are the best proof of ability." --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:30:23 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Best wishes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Best wishes for your safe return home Master Nabors. Sincerely, Rudy Timmerman and your friends at NKMAA --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:35:19 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Ground_fighting?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Kirk: Many thanks for your patient answers. While I probably have more than enough on my plate right now to consider pursuing such practice its plain that there is a place for pursuing ground-fighting as an addendum to ones' training. BTW: You may have misunderstood my previous comment. The art I was referring to was "Kumdo" not "yudo". The only point that I was making was that the use of the Korean sword likewise includes a group of techniques executed from a grounded position. They are, however, not of the number of say Eishin-ryu which has its share of standardized kata executed from this position. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:50:05 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Wearing the white belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kevin writes: > There is one more important item that needs to be mentioned....All of > the > above persons wore a white belt throughout the week. This, I believe, > represents an all but lost display of character and humility Hello Kevin, thanks for the cudos. Your statement above is only a partial reason why I asked these folks to wear the white belt. To be sure, I wanted people who were humble enough to wear the white; but, I also wanted to make sure they realized that I am NOT a person who awards rank just for time in the arts. Even though a Dentist and a Physician are both Doctors, I would hate to have my appendix removed by a Dentist. In this case, these martial artists (many of them Masters in their own art) wanted to learn what I know, and that is different than what THEY know. In addition, their ranks to date were awarded to them by someone else... not me. With so many folks claiming this, that, and the other thing, I wanted everyone there to be absolutely sure they understood the fact that I was NOT cross ranking them. These folks are learning the art I teach from white belt on, and they will test for each geup level until they reach black belt. To be sure, they may do so faster than a complete novice, but they MUST go through the basics just like any other new student I accept. In the end, I wanted to be comfortable with the fact that all of these martial artists could care less about that and simply came for the knowledge, not the rank. What a novel idea. Imagine, to train for knowledge:) Sincerely, Rudy, Kwan Jang --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:40:43 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Quick_Thanks_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: I wanted to take a moment to thanks various folks who brought to my attention my recent celebrity on the radio. Thank you very much. Regardless of the comments made its a simple matter to consider the source of the comments, his background, motives and unhappiness. Coincidentally my grandson was recently taken ill and likewise cried and fussed in order to get HIS attention. To my way of thinking the radio program that was cited has about as much to do with Korean martial arts as the crying my grandson did. Thanks again for your concern, though. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Time for Gup Grade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's what we do. Those of you that have read Grayden's book will recognize what I modified. 1. 10th gup to 9th Gup White Belt with a Yellow central stripe. Almost everyone tests in two months. The first form is optional, but everyone can walk through it on the test (we had one 5 year old that took 7 months). 2. 9th gup to 8th gup Yellow. Almost eveyone tests in two months. The first two forms are optional. Most students know the three Kicho Hyung (at least all the moves). The same 5 year old above took another 5 months or 1 year to get from 10th-8th at age 6. 3. Starting at 8th gup moving to 7th gup Orange we introduce a progress check (stripe) system. Instead of the tape we go traditional and write the hangul for Tang Soo Do on their belts right (senior) side. One word for each Checkpoint. Check #1 Begining of form and new hand motions 6 classes minimum Check #2 Half of new form and new kicks 12 classes minimum Check #3 Must know entire form and gross motor motion of all required skills or you do not pass. 18 classes minimum Month 4 = Testing must have all three Checks, 24 minimum classes For 8th to 7th gup (Teen/Adult may test in 3 months, then all others 4 months) 4th to 3rd gup requires 27 classes 3rd to 2nd gup requires 30 classes 2nd to 1st Gup requires 40 classes 1st gup to 1st dan requires 6 months So for an adult/teen 9th gup 2 months 8th gup 4 months 7th gup 7 months 6th gup 11 months 5th gup 15 months 4th gup 19 months 3rd gup 23 months 2nd gup 27 months 1st gup 31 months 1st dan 37 months minimum Practical reality. My longest training students = 4 years and 3rd gup soon to test for 2nd gup, and my wife at 6th gup. I have some 7&8 year old 4th gups that have been with me over two years. Many of them have spent 5 to 6 months strugling with a form, or the needed "crispness" to get to the next level. All of them have "failed" the 3rd checkpoint at one time or another. Few of the younger guys make it above green 6th in 4 months, but so far all of them have kept going. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:30:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] "Divided Nation" Symposium, Dec. 12 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is information on a December Symposium in San Francisco that may interest some members of the list. The symposium is in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Korean Armistice. The event is free and open to the public. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Intercultural Institute of California (IIC) Presents "Divided Nation: A Symposium" In recognition of the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Armistice Agreement to the Korean War, IIC presents a symposium exploring the reasons for the continuing divide of the Korean peninsula. Distinguished panelists will offer their scholarly research and expertise to examine the causes of the "Divided Nation." Date: December 12, 2003 Time: 9:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Place: Conference Theater Grand Hyatt, San Francisco Special Guest: Colonel Kim Young Oak, United States Army Schedule Morning Session 9:00a registration and coffee 9:30a Youn-Cha Shin Chey (IIC President), welcome 10:00a Bonnie Oh (Georgetown University) 10:30a questions and answers 10:45a break 11:00a Robert Scalapino (U.C., Berkeley) 11:30a questions and answers 11:45a Howard Dratch (filmmaker) 12:15p questions and answers 12:30-2:00 Lunch (on your own) Afternoon Session 2:00p Henry Em (University of Michigan) 2:30p questions and answers 2:45p Ilpyong J. Kim (University of Connecticut) 3:15p questions and answers 3:30p coffee break 3:45p John K.C. Oh (Catholic University of America) 4:15p questions and answers 4:30p roundtable discussion 5:00p Hilary Finchum-Sung (IIC), concluding remarks 5:15p seminar adjourns This event is free and open to the public For more information, please contact: Hilary Finchum-Sung hfinchum@iic.edu Or contact: The Intercultural Institute of California (IIC) 1362 Post Street, San Francisco, CA 94109 Tel: 415-441-1884 E-mail: info@iic.edu Web: www.iic.edu --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] BJJ proved on TV? Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:49:47 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is "proper"? You mean "successful"? That is like saying a proper knockout punch knocks someone out. Of course it does. But my argument is that these things are not as easy to do as people think. Eyes are small, well protected by evolution and instinct, and moving all over the place in a real fight. If you cannot score a one punch KO, for which all you must do is get a good portion of your fist on a good portion of his face, how will you score an eye jab for which you essentially need your finger tip to enter his eye--needle in a haystack. I also take issue with the certainty that an eye jab or bite will end a fight. Read police reports. People are often stabbed multiple times and are able to finish a fight before realizing it. They are also able to sustain bites from sharks, bears, and mountain lions and still "fight" their way to survival. I say it again, adrenaline, tequila, steroids, PCP, take your pick would make a bite or eye jab little more than an inconvenience. Cetainly these would require medical attention AFTER the fight, but they would not stop it. OTOH, they would certainly escalate the violence so that if you were trying to do these things from an inferior position you would then be subject to massive retribution and unable to do a damn thing about it. John >From: Ray Terry >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] BJJ proved on TV? >Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:02:26 -0800 (PST) > > > To your first question, almost certainly. If rules are removed, imagine > > the following. You are mounted. You are unable to escape from this > > position. In desparation you bite, or eye gouge, or whatever. It does not > > kill your opponent. It does anger him, and escalate the level of > > violence. He can then return 1,000 fold whatever tactics you employed. > > The difference? He is in a position to do it effectively and > > continuously, whereas you are only in a position to suffer. > >On the other hand... A proper eye gouge takes out the eye. A proper bite >removes a hunk of meat, save through heavy clothing. When I've seen either >of these used the fight pretty much ended asap as the person having a hunk >of meat removed or eye removed jumped up and looked for immediate medical >attention. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ground fighting Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:57:51 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Randall, Please reread my post. I only wrote that he was a "highly skilled grappler"; I said nothing about ground fighting in regards to John. OTOH, you wrote that he was skilled in Native American "ground fighting" and that it was "nasty stuff."  So relax. ><>highly skilled grappler could he opt to keep fights standing. Ignore >grappling and you will have little choice in the matter. In short, those >who ignore grappling/ground fighting because they hope not to be on the >ground in a fight are their own worst enemies, and not very intelligent >either. > >John>> > >I don't think I proved any of your points. John does Native American grappling >which is different from BJJ pig wrestling. He doesn't advocate going to the >ground...neither do I. The principles he advocates are to enable one to stay >on their feet so your statement, "Only because he was a highly skilled >grappler could he opt to keep the fight standing" doesn't really apply. He >trains not to go to the ground...so do I. I don't need years of BJJ to keep me >standing; I just need to know what BJJ guys like to do and train to prevent >it. I know one instructor that says if your teacher can't teach you to stay on >your feet, you need a new instructor. Any ground training I do is geared to >getting up as quickly as possible. > > >Randall Sexton >"Results are the best proof of ability." >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Wearing the white belt Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:01:38 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy, I have a couple of questions for you regarding your post below. When is the last time that you put on the white belt in order to learn from someone new? And what belt did you begin at during your interlude with Kuk Sool Won? Although I do not know the answers to these questions, they would seem to be extremely relevant to your post below. John "Hello Kevin, thanks for the cudos. Your statement above is only a >partial reason why I asked these folks to wear the white belt. To be >sure, I wanted people who were humble enough to wear the white; but, I >also wanted to make sure they realized that I am NOT a person who >awards rank just for time in the arts. Even though a Dentist and a >Physician are both Doctors, I would hate to have my appendix removed by >a Dentist. In this case, these martial artists (many of them Masters >in their own art) wanted to learn what I know, and that is different >than what THEY know. > >In addition, their ranks to date were awarded to them by someone >else... not me. With so many folks claiming this, that, and the other >thing, I wanted everyone there to be absolutely sure they understood >the fact that I was NOT cross ranking them. These folks are learning >the art I teach from white belt on, and they will test for each geup >level until they reach black belt. To be sure, they may do so faster >than a complete novice, but they MUST go through the basics just like >any other new student I accept. In the end, I wanted to be comfortable >with the fact that all of these martial artists could care less about >that and simply came for the knowledge, not the rank. What a novel >idea. Imagine, to train for knowledge:) >Sincerely, >Rudy, Kwan Jang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:06:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] ending a fight, frequently Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I also take issue with the certainty that an eye jab or bite will end a > fight. Read police reports. Yep, I have. And worked w/a lot of LEOs and learned from their experiences. Will removing an eye or biting out a chunk of meat always end a fight? No. Just like other finishing techniques, they work a large % of the time but not 100% of time. A few .45ACPs to center mass won't even work 100% of the time. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:11:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido forms ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To those in Hapkido styles/schools that do forms/hyung/poomsae, what are your forms like? Are they like Taekwondo forms, i.e. singular, one person forms (kicking and punching the air)? Or partner forms like Judo's kata? Or ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: "L. Veuleman" To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Long Time no type Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Ya'll, Its been a while since I have posted, just wanted to be the first to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. I will be traveling a little bit, and away from the computer, and I never get the first say on wishing happy holidays, so here it is. Eat lots of turkey for me. Preferably fried. MMM...grease. Yours in the Martial Arts, Charlie Veuleman ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 18 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Old Time Training/rank question Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:38:37 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don't know about current affiliations/rank, but the last time I saw Rudy Timmerman he was in a Kuk Sool Won uniform. What happened? John >From: Rudy Timmerman >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Old Time Training >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:54:21 -0500 > >I'd like to I thank Master Thomas for his kind words, and I applaud him >and the rest of the group for their dedication and willingness to train >for the sake of training alone. When I made the offer to accept ten >personal students, I wanted to make sure that these folks would not >include any who were out to pad their credentials without leaving some >serious sweat in my Dojang; hence I insisted on having them wear white >belts. > >In addition to the usual "wax on wax off" stuff I ask my students to >do, the group was expected to sleep in the Dojang, run our challenge >course the day after the worst snow blizzard to hit Northern ONT and >the UP since the Fitzgerald went down (this year's storm took out ten >full grown Spruce trees at my home), climb a 12 foot wall, and actually >break ice to find open water to swim in. You can see that I was >reasonably sure I would attract a pretty good group of folks who were >interested in serious training:) > >I would like to thank Masters Trudeau, DeWitt, Thomas, and Orndorff; >PSNs Keppers, Wojan, and Coleman; KSN Milks; and JKNs Kat, Chris, and >John; as well as their students Jenny and Phillip for their dedication >and trust. Together, I call this group the dirty dozen, because I have >never seen a group more into inflicting pain on one another than this >one:) I appreciate you all giving me the opportunity to teach martial >arts the way I was taught, and a whole week of 12 to 14 hour days of >hard teaching made me a happy man. I am glad to hear you all made it >home safe. > >I also like to thank my students Kevin Janisse, Lorne Keatly, Ronda >Bourdage, Bob Clement, Jason Maville, Tim Gregorini, and Manfred Fisher >and for their help, you gave me the opportunity to spend more "one on >one" time with the group. I congratulate KSNs Kat Kelly, Brenda Lloyd, > and Chris Demanaeus on their promotion to 2nd dahn. > >BTW folks, I am sorry for not taking care of emails etc. while I >conducted this old time training camp. Please know that I was not >ducking the question of my rank, I was just too busy taking care of a >dozen eager martial artists who wanted to experience some old time >training. With a week's worth of emails to catch up on, I'll get to >answering your inquiry SAP Ray. Hope you understand. >Sincerely, >Rudy >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest