Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:13:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #527 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Cold water (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Polar Bear Club (Randall Sexton) 3. Re: Going to the ground (John Frankl) 4. Timeline (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Biting (Rudy Timmerman) 6. What happened? (Rudy Timmerman) 7. Re: RE:Hapkido vs Aikido (John Frankl) 8. non-LE stats (tntcombatives@comcast.net) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_Forms?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. Re: ending a fight, frequently (John Frankl) 11. Re: Timeline (Ray Terry) 12. Re: Timeline (Jye nigma) 13. Ji's Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 14. Hapkido attribution (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 15. Re: Cold water (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:27:07 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Cold water Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > I will also share that some parts of me reacted strongly > at the mere thought of 34 degree water! :-) Hello Bruce: As I stood on the shore of that icy lake, I had the same reaction. In fact, I noticed myself getting taller as I got in deeper. I wanted to separate the men from the boys, but there seemed to be no difference between the genders after we came out:) I must say the ex US Navy Seal (Master DeWitt) passed me as if I were standing still, and he was the first to submerge. He took to that water like a penguin (the ducks left for warmer water:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:51:24 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Polar Bear Club Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "...... Martial Artists who have been accepted to become personal students of Grandmaster Timmerman....." Will there be a correspondence version of this intensive course soon? He, he! Randall Sexton "Results are the best proof of ability." --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Going to the ground Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:18:04 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy, That would make most people happy. Just like winning the lottery would. And both are about as likely to happen . John >From: Rudy Timmerman >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Going to the ground >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:00:33 -0500 > >Dakin writes: > > On the street, try not to get in position where five guys can jump on > > you! > >Hello Dakin: >It is easy to see by your statement that we come from the same root (GM >Pak), because the only way I am happy is when ONE man goes to the >ground (preferrably the OTHER man:). >Sincerely, >Rudy >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:36:20 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Timeline Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John writes: > I have a couple of questions for you regarding your post below. When is > the last time that you put on the white belt in order to learn from > someone new? And what belt did you begin at during your interlude with > Kuk Sool Won? Although I do not know the answers to these questions, > they > would seem to be extremely relevant to your post below. Hello John: Ray asked a similar question of JR and myself a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I was just too busy with the group here to look up the records. In addition, I had a large renovation at my school, and my office is still in a mess. Boxes everywhere, as the folks who lived in my dojang can attest to. Nevertheless, your post prompted me to get off my duff and write my timeline for Ray. It will be clear to everyone that my rank in Kuk Sool HKD was a bit fast in the beginning, but this is likely due to the fact that I had trained in Jiu Jitsu for many years. In any case, I never questioned my Instructor's ability to run his school the way he wanted to run it (even if I did not like it). Regarding the last time I wore a white belt: I began as a white belt a number of times, but I carry it with me at all times. The last time I put it on was in 1992 when I trained with a group of Japanese Masters in Toronto. I have NO problem putting it on anytime I run into someone who wants to teach me, that's why I have it with me:) My stint with WKSA (different than Kuk Sool) began in 1989, and my rank (7th dahn) was lowered to 4th dahn until my skill could be demonstrated. Later that year I passed the Chief Inst. Exam with GM Suh, and I was placed in with class mates Suh Sung Jin (the next WKSA leader), Marlin Sims, and Jay Lee. We promoted together according to the timeline from then on. Hopes this satisfies your curiosity (or is it animosity:) BTW, all of these ranks can be substantiated with certificates and pics; however, and most importantly, I have proved my abilities on the mats of some of the highest ranking Hap Ki Do Players. Sincerely, Rudy Timeline 1950 - 1957 Catch & Jiu Jitsu -- No rank awarded to under age18 students 1958 - 1st Dahn Jiu Jitsu, cert. #3377 (eventually earned 5th dahn signed by the late Shinsaku Hogen Hanshi, Tokyo) 1965 - 1st dahn TKD cert #4166 (began again as white belt) 1967 - 2nd dahn TKD 1969 - 1st dahn HKD cert. #102 (began again as white belt) 1970 - 2nd dahn HKD 1973 - 3rd dahn HKD 1975 - 4th dahn HKD 1980 - 5th dahn HKD 1984 - 6th dahn HKD 1992 - 7th dahn HKD 1998 - 8th dahn KHD 1989 - 4th dahn Kuk Sool, cert. #6011 (accepted lower rank in Kuk Sool) 1989 - (passed Chief Inst. Exam GM Suh) 1991 - 5th dahn Kuk Sool (was upgraded with classmates Suh Sung Jin, Sims, and Lee) 1996 - 6th dahn Kuk Sool (resigned Kuk Sool in 1998) In 1984, my Instructor GM Pak) founded Tae Keuk Do, and left me as guardian of Kong Shin Bup™ because of my loyal promoting of that art. Although he awarded me the rank of 8th dahn at that time, out of respect for GM Pak (the founder of Kong Shin Bup™) I did not use the rank he awarded me until 1998 (after he had passed away and an appropriate time had lapsed). During my training, I served as: Director Canadian Black Belt Alliance (1972-1974) Founding Director of NKMAA (1974 - present) Director IMAF (Jiu Jitsu) (1987-1990) Direcor YKKF (Jiu Jitsu) (1990-1994) Director WKSA (for Canada and MI) (1989-1998) Director Kido Hae (2002- present) --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:42:12 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Biting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > Will removing an eye or biting out a chunk of meat always end a fight? Hello Ray: It does if your name is Tyson:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:45:12 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What happened? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John writes: > Don't know about current affiliations/rank, but the last time I saw > Rudy > Timmerman he was in a Kuk Sool Won uniform. What happened? Hello John: Sorry, but I do not recall seeing you, did I miss something? Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE:Hapkido vs Aikido Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:28:13 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I apologize for my lack of clarity. I did not write "unrecorded" because I did not mean it was not in print--otherwise how would I have known about it. I wrote "little mentioned" because it very seldom comes up when the typical Aikidoka is giving the typical hagiography of Ueshiba. John >From: "Michael Rowe" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Hapkido vs Aikido >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:35:38 -0600 > ><< All good information Ray. Another interesting yet little mentioned >part of Ueshiba's background--mostly due to the post >facto hippie-ization of Aikido--is that he was an ardent militarist. He >used to hang from tree limbs trying to stretch his body an extra >centimeter or two; it seems poor Morihei was just too darn short for the >Japanese Imperial Army, and thus excluded from all the fun they were >having in Korea and China. In short, he wanted very much to be part of >the raping and killing on the continent, but the government didn't see >him as soldier material. Funny that the peace and love crowd chooses to >ignore this.>> > >LITTLE MENTIONED? Please get real. In every book on Aikido history you >will find that story. Additionally you will find that after he FINALLY >got into the army and did his time in Manchuria, Ueshiba was very much >against the army's way of doing things. The army wanted him to go into >officer training but Ueshiba got out of the army. The peace and love >crowd (your words not mine) have always pointed out his involvement in >the military. Get your facts straight. > >Michael Rowe >If at first you succeed, try to hide your astonishment! >mp_rowe@cox.net >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: tntcombatives@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:03:20 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] non-LE stats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Police study their own use of force to reduce officer injury, reduce liability, seek out training problems/areas, and play nicey nice politics. I dont feel that the studies reflect real life encounters. Your question inspires me though. I am gonna keep tabs on all the fight calls I go to over the next few months and specifically ask whether or not they both ended up on the ground, and exactly how they got there (ie: choice/fell/thrown etc.).....might make for a great article someday. -- Mark Gajdostik TNT-Police Combatives --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 04:15:22 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_Forms?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....To those in Hapkido styles/schools that do forms/hyung/poomsae, what are your forms like? Are they like Taekwondo forms, i.e. singular, one person forms (kicking and punching the air)? Or partner forms like Judo's kata? Or ???......" The hyung in Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido were organized by GM Myung who drew heavily on his TKD background. There are many sequences that appear taken directly from portions of the Pinan (Pyong Ahn) forms, though there are a higher percentage of kicks interspersed among these. All five hyung are individual forms. The Kwon Bup form from the MYTBTJ begins as a single form and transitions into a two man form. Concerning weapons work all the weapons forms I do are single with the exception of my sword work which includes both single and paired form work. Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "John Frankl" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ending a fight, frequently Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:57:50 +0900 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All good, Ray. But a big part of my point, before we even get to "removing an eye," is that removing an eye is pretty darn hard to do in a real fight. And eye jab is not removing an eye anymore than a punch is a knockout. One can be the other, but the percentages are very low. John >From: Ray Terry >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] ending a fight, frequently >Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:06:14 -0800 (PST) > > > I also take issue with the certainty that an eye jab or bite will end a > > fight. Read police reports. > >Yep, I have. And worked w/a lot of LEOs and learned from their experiences. > >Will removing an eye or biting out a chunk of meat always end a fight? No. >Just like other finishing techniques, they work a large % of the time but >not 100% of time. A few .45ACPs to center mass won't even work 100% of >the time. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP spam with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Timeline To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:58:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Timeline > 1950 - 1957 Catch & Jiu Jitsu -- No rank awarded to under age 18 students > 1958 - 1st Dahn Jiu Jitsu, cert. #3377 (eventually > earned 5th dahn signed by the late Shinsaku Hogen Hanshi, Tokyo) > > 1965 - 1st dahn TKD cert #4166 (began again > as white belt) ... > 1969 - 1st dahn HKD cert. #102 (began again > as white belt) ... > 1998 - 8th dahn HKD Very impressive! Thanks to you and to Gm West for sharing. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:03:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Timeline To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey everyone, I found this on a site: Grandmaster BioGrandmaster Rudy W. Timmerman MMA, B. Sc. Martial Art Certification Achievements Black Belt Family Tree Master Rudy W. Timmerman began his martial art studies in Holland, his native country, when he was ten years old. His initial studies were in the art of Jiu Jitsu (some called it Catch as Catch Can). After moving to Canada this changed due to the unavailability of Jiu Jitsu in the new location he moved to. Continuing his search for a suitable martial art, he stumbled onto his first experience with Master Pak in shyuk during a demonstration in the 1960's. Excited about what he saw, he immediately joined Master Pak's Kuk Sool Won Hap Ki Do school and stayed with him until Master Pak unexpectedly left the area. Certification at that time was in Kuk Sool Won Hap Ki Do and came from Korea signed by Grandmaster Suh in hyuk. In the early 70's, after Grandmaster Pak suddenly left the area, Master Timmerman opened his own school called Ancient Fighting Arts. In 1985, in order to provide proper certification for his students, Master Timmerman searched for, and later found, Master Pak in Edmonton, Alberta. Once again, there was a connection between Grandmaster and student. It was in Edmonton that Master Timmerman helped Grandmaster Pak complete the development of Kong Shin Bup™. Before returning home, Grandmaster Pak appointed Master Timmerman as the successor of Kong Shin Bup™. After Grandmaster Pak passed away, he assumed that role, and he was recognized as Grandmaster of Kong Shin Bup™ by the World Council of Grandmasters in 2000 Master Rudy Timmerman demonstrates ancient fan techniques as it appeared on the cover of Tae Kwon Do Times During Grandmaster Pak's absence, Master Timmerman joined a local Tae Kwon Do school (a white belt once again) under the guidance of yet another Master Pak. Master Pak sung bok taught the ITF version of Tae Kwon Do, and this is where Master Timmerman picked up the tournament sparring skills that were not a focus of Kuk Sool Won Hap Ki Do. Master Pak sung bok's close ties with the well known Tae Kwon Do Master Park jong soo gave Master Timmerman the opportunity to participate in the North American Tae Kwon Do Championships and observe and learn from world class competitors: Dohee Lee, Don James, Alphonse Gabidon, and Kees Keukens (and many other international competitors). Master Timmerman's enormous appetite to learn more prompted him to travel the world over in search of more knowledge and competition. During his travels he had the opportunity to study with some of the greatest martial art Masters and Instructors of that era. Not hampered by the Korean v/s Japanese feuding, Master Timmerman studied with anyone who was willing to teach him, regardless of their allegiance. He attended Summer camps and seminars by such notable Masters as Chuck Merriman, Robert Dalgleish, Glenn Premru, Wally Slocki, Sensei Kai, Sensei Yamaguchi, Sensei Sato, Professor Morris, and a host of other great martial artists. To this date, Master Timmerman urges his students to learn from anyone who has good technique. In addition to attending countless martial art seminars, workshops, and camps, Master Timmerman participated in martial art tournaments in Canada, the U.S., Mexico, and Europe in order to increase his skills. Later he would share this knowledge and conduct seminars and lectures across the globe to the friends he had made over his many years of traveling. Eventually Master Pak in shyuk dropped his allegiance with Grandmaster Suh in hyuk and founded his own Kong Shin Bup™ Hap Ki Do. While he was eager to learn Kong Shin Bup™, Master Timmerman also wished to remain loyal to his Roots and was disturbed by the apparent lack of loyalty among Korean masters. In 1975, Master Timmerman traveled to San Francisco to attend the first Kuk Sool seminar taught in the U.S. by Grandmaster Suh in hyuk, and he later became his personal student. At this time, Kuk Sool Won Hap Ki Do had become just Kuk Sool Won™ (at least one Canadian school still calls their style Kuk Sool Won Hap Ki Do; however, we don't know by whom they are certified).(For those who are interested in this transformation, a World of Martial Arts, June, 1998 article by Dr. He Young Kimm addresses the Kuk Sool Won Hap Ki Do split in more detail. Another article by Robert Young also discusses this topic - see KMAR) Disturbed by the split, Master Timmerman continued to teach the curriculum he had learned from Master Pak in shyuk. During this time he continued to study with anyone who was willing to teach him. In 1989, Master Timmerman reached an agreement with Grandmaster Suh in hyuk, and he was appointed Branch Director for Canada and the State of Michigan. Master Timmerman quickly spread the art of Kuk Sool Won™ and, with the help of a number of his students, opened fifteen schools. He single handedly put Kuk Sool Won™ on the map in Canada and Michigan (except for a small Dojang in Detroit that later closed, there were no WKSA Kuk Sool schools in these areas at the time). During the next decade, Master Timmerman coached a number of his students to become World Champions. A trademark issue prevented Master Timmerman from using the name Kuk Sool Won™ in Canada. Unwilling to get into the politics of this situation, Master Timmerman began using the name National Korean Martial Arts Association (the English translation of the Korean words Kuk Sool Won) which he had founded during the early seventies. Ironically, the Grandmaster who registered the name Kuk Sool Won™ in Canada now uses the name Dahn Mu Do. A number of Instructors who were introduced to the WKSA by Master Timmerman became unhappy with WKSA for one reason or another and left to join the Canadian Kuk Sool Won™ association. Unfortunately, WKSA politics have resulted in poor relationships between many area schools that had been on friendly terms for decades. Master Timmerman continued to be a loyal supporter and student of Grandmast Suh until the WKSA committed a serious breech of his license agreement in 1998. Although he still believes that Kuk Sool is a great martial art, and he remains on friendly terms with many Kuk Sool Black Belts, Master Timmerman was unable to continue his allegiance with the WKSA after their blatant violation of martial art and business principles. Master Timmerman believes that loyalty, integrity, and honesty are an integral part of "the Doh". Saddened by the lack of loyalty and integrity displayed by the Korean Grandmaster he was so closely associated with, Master Timmerman decided to concentrate on further developing the National Korean Martial Arts Association he founded in 1974. After more than fifty years of diligently practicing and/or coaching martial arts, it has become very apparent that the ancient virtues of martial arts have been replaced by unethical business practices and greed in many organizations. While Master Timmerman believes that Instructors and organizations deserve to be paid as well as the market will bear, he also believes this doesn't have to be at the expense of quality, integrity, honesty, and loyalty. Perhaps this is a naive outlook on modern martial arts; however, the continued success in his own school seems to indicate there is a place for an organization that does not favor the almighty dollar over the ancient virtues that make Black Belts the role models children look up to. On a more positive note: We have also witnessed organizations that still hold dear the ancient values and principles of martial arts. The old adage of "Buyer Beware" is now an essential issue when seeking a school or organization to join. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:20:48 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ji's Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: <> A couple of things on this subject... number one, the proprietary thing is very interesting, I can liken GM Ji to the early days of IBM when they invented their version of the PC computer.. they didn't trademark everything but left the engineering wide open so that in the end the pc flourished... GM Ji did the same thing with his Hapkido,, I have heard him several times say that you can learn his Hapkido and then make your own Hapkido from his... He didn't want to pidgeon hole his Hapkido because he understands that everyone is different.. that is why he is recognized for spreading Hapkido. Two, Bruce you seem to be on some crusade lately with all the history talk, sounds like maybe your getting ready to go into a different direction, or different organization, I feel like you are searching form something that doesn't exist outside of your own mind, that's cool,, whatever you want to do. The funny thing I find about all of this is that you keep talking in circles about history and downgrading Ji's contributions to Hapkido, but all along the teachers that you have learned Hapkido from are ALL old students of Ji? I can't make any sense of this.. Kwang Sik Myung is a direct student of GM Ji, as well as every other Korean master you have stated you trained with? I guess this is a good example of forgeting history and repeating it? NO I don't think Doju Nim Ji Han Jae is some kind of saint. No I don't agree with everything he does. No I don't follow him or anyone else blindly in this world.. BUT yes I respect what he has done for the world of Hapkido. Yes I have been on the mat with him and felt his techniques. Yes I understand that when it comes to basic movement there in No one else on this planet that can match him. And YES when I go train with him I stay for the whole time and become a sponge not a critic.... The real truth of Hapkido lies in your hard training, not in a book, a video, a historical arguement, or verbal diatribe that really has no real answer,,, dude just go TRAIN and Be HAPPY, and the next time you run into GM Ji try to have an open mind and maybe you might actually learn something from him... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:35:52 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido attribution Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Being one of the many that did not come from the Ji lineage in my youth, Bruce's analogy to Japanese karate (found below) did a great job of explaining things. Another analogy would be the art of aikido which was founded by one person (there was not another one claiming to invent the art after the founder died), but aikido has broken off into so many genre, ones that practice sport, ones that do not believe in ki, ones that practice ki techniques only so that it looks like pushing hands, and everything in between to the point that it no longer looks like the art the founder practiced. But the current doshu, a relative of the founder, is said to resemble the founder's art more than his father. So the original art is still alive. Ji style is a genre of hapkido, really nothing more, I suppose that is why he calls it sinmoo. He does get deserved credit for spreading the art. But I am concerned with the way he gives dan ranking away and promoted himself to 10th dan. I am often asked what style of hapkido I teach, and my reply is 'hapkido'. :) Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <>> --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:52:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cold water To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This reminds me of element training I had when I was younger....the result...when a blizzard hit CT, it nocked out our power so no hot water for a few days, and other times when we were snowed in and the oil truck couldn't get to us, I took freezing cold showers with no problem. I remember going striaght from the shower to the CT winter with no coat on and only a tshirt on my way to high school....lol. Never got sick once over that. Jye Rudy Timmerman wrote: Hello Bruce: As I stood on the shore of that icy lake, I had the same reaction. In fact, I noticed myself getting taller as I got in deeper. I wanted to separate the men from the boys, but there seemed to be no difference between the genders after we came out:) I must say the ex US Navy Seal (Master DeWitt) passed me as if I were standing still, and he was the first to submerge. He took to that water like a penguin (the ducks left for warmer water:) Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest