Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:39:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #535 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. General Choi (David Ozanne) 2. Hapkido history (Todd Miller) 3. Re: General Choi (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Hapkido history (Ray Terry) 5. Timeline Seniority (J.R. West) 6. CrossFit Challenge (Randall Sexton) 7. Re: Quinna/Chin Na (J Thomas Howard) 8. Dr Kimm (Bob Banham) 9. Contracts (Rudy Timmerman) 10. RE: New Dojang (Thomas Gordon) 11. Re: Thanks on Thanksgiving (American Hapkido Academy) 12. Fraud (Dr. Daryl Covington) 13. Re: Craig and BJJ (MJD1128@aol.com) 14. New organization (Manuel Maldonado) 15. Mutual respect (Charles Richards) 16. Black Belt timeline (eleusis) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "David Ozanne" To: "Dojang Digest - Submissions" Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:42:00 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] General Choi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all on the Digest. Good to see such healthy discussion. While doing some research on the origins of Chung Do Kwan TKD, I was very surprised to find that General Choi was actually a 1st dan in Karate. Did anyone else know this. My source is the 'Informal History of Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do' by R.E. Dohrenwend, PhD. If you would like to have a look at this document, please e-mail me as it is an excellent read for anyone with an interest in TKD. Regards, David Ozanne --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:48:36 -0500 From: Todd Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is good to see all the talk of Hapkido history on here. I hope it will continue in a good nattered spirit. I am interested to here more on how GM Ji uses the off balancing principle inherent to Hapkido, as I know that so many do not. I hope that you all can get a chance to attend GM Lim's seminar in Chicago, March 20th, 2004. It is always great training with him! Take care Todd Miller --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] General Choi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:52:32 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > While doing some research on the origins of Chung Do Kwan TKD, I was very > surprised to find that General Choi was actually a 1st dan in Karate. Did > anyone else know this. Yes. Actually I believe he claimed to have attained a 2nd Dan while in Japan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido history To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:10:16 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > It is good to see all the talk of Hapkido history on here. I hope it > will continue in a good nattered spirit. I am interested to here more > on how GM Ji uses the off balancing principle inherent to Hapkido, as I > know that so many do not. I'm interested in hearing what others have to say on this... but my take on it is that it is introduced very early on when you learn the "Basic 8". Actually a basic 32, it is four variations on eight basic and simple beginning hapkido techniques. Six wrist grab defenses, two punch defenses. During these one is taught very carefully how/where to step, which direction to point the toes, how weight is distributed, proper skeletal positioning, no forcing the technique thru muscle use, etc. Through this approach one learns the proper way to easily(?) break the balance of the attacker. Just a very quick response... gotta get back to the movie. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:49:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Timeline Seniority Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy said " BTW, contrary to what some of you seem to think, I don't have a problem with the fact that JR began training in HKD before I did. I sent my timeline in per request, and I did not send it in to be part of a peeing contest. I respect JR as a senior KHD player, and I have even spoken to him about working with my students should anything happen to me. That is about the most respect I could give anyone. Sincerely, Rudy" I believe that Ray asked us to post our time lines in order to give everyone an idea about the time and effort involved in attaining the ranks that we hold, and I have NEVER discussed with Rudy who the senior was because 1) It makes no difference; and 2) I have always privately, in my heart, considered Rudy my senior because he has more time teaching and studying than I have, and there are NO substitutes for time and experience when it comes to dealing with all the pressures and personalities that are involved in our "job". I have been very fortunate that I am still in the art that I started in, so I haven't had the need to slide sideways from one to another or go through a lot of the situations that others have gone through just to stay involved. Rudy also knows that I will do whatever I can to help him and his students in any way I can, and I do this because of my respect for him as a martial artist and person, because he has and will do the same for me and mine, and because he is my friend, and I am honored to call him that. J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:53:18 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] CrossFit Challenge Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> That sounds like a March challenge to me!! Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:06:54 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Quinna/Chin Na Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Randall Sexton" > Subject: [The_Dojang] Qinna > Ray wrote: > < in Beijing that I would love to train with, but his name escapes me. He > has a book out.>> > "Practical Chin Na: A Detailed Analysis of the Art of Seizing and Locking" by > Zhao Da Yuan Good book, too. I like the fact that he talks about the mechanics behind the techniques, and also about how each lock affects the body. (For example, many people I know can do a wristlock, but don't know or can't explain how to use that to lock the entire body, or move an opponent's body as they wish merely through the wristlock.) If I ever go to Beijing (after I win the lottery) I'd like to train with this gentleman also. :) Thomas Nebraska Hapkido Association ----------------------- hapkido.4t.com hapkido@mindspring.com "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching, then you are modeling something else." --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:03:01 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dr Kimm Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dr Kimm was given the title dojunim by GM Ji at his 60th birthday celebration in 2002. Bob Banham Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.197 / Virus Database: 261.2.0 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:32:21 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Contracts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas writes: > The other thing is the "no > contracts" approach. We do have EFT but you can cancel at any time. > In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with contracts if done correctly. Hello Thomas: From rigid contracts to the cancel anytime agreements, in my experience most systems will work if your particular program is properly presented to the buyer. After that, it is in the way the buyer is treated. Give them value for their money, and they will stay. You don't have to "give" rank away, and you don't have to be ashamed of earning an honest living. Very few people will come to you with the idea of wanting to earn fast rank cheap. Most will come to "earn" rank and learn good solid martial arts. Unfortunately, many school owners do not have the confidence to hold fast, and they will begin selling rank (and lose the customers' respect right alongside of it). Others will drop their fees to an amount that makes it impossible for them to keep the Dojang open, and that is just as bad for the martial arts industry. What you WILL need is enough money (or a job on the side) to tide you over until your good reputation takes hold. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] New Dojang Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:16:11 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the input Master Richards. I read over your email a few times and will keep it for review. Keys are making it accessible and easy to join. Thanks again. Thomas Gordon Florida -----Original Message----- From: Charles Richards [mailto:mojakwan@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 9:17 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New Dojang Master Gordon, Thank you for sharing. Here are my humble additions: 1. None of us can afford to gamble with newsprint ads, we just can't get the message out there enough times to be worth the per insertion cost. Readership does not equal qualified leads. 2. If you have a decent traffic count, your sign will pay for itself many times over in the life of your dojang. 70-80% of my info calls are drive-bys or referrals. 3. Five knew an instructor (see above referals) 4. Make sure your internet site is set up to generate leads. We get about 15% of our leads from the internet, but a higher percentage of internet leads enroll than drive-bys. 5. I use the newspaper for "article exposure" only. Therefore I don't pay for insertions. Hope you took some pictures of your "all-american" looking kids at your festival to put in the paper. 6. You are on the right track on Halloween and Yule time festivals. Be sure you make it easy to enroll in an intro class, and have people available to "collect leads" in addition to folks in the event. We have now negotiated an exclusive agreement to do demos at our local City easter egg hunt and fall festival. We use the raffle for free lessons and get around 10 leads per event. 7. We use no contracts and a billing company. Less than 1/3 use EFT and the rest use coupons. Less than 10% are ever late, and the only drop outs we've had have been the young guys, highest in the youngest ages and so on. 8. We have the same experience with the local TKD full time school down the street they work for the 18 month enrollment, and then an upgrade to a 36 month black belt club. Great start and good luck with your new challenges! Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "American Hapkido Academy" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:19:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Thanks on Thanksgiving Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On this day of Thanksgiving, we should give thanks for GM Ji, it seems that if it were not for him HapKiDo would not be as wide spread or as organized. > As has been said before... Choi was the spark, but Ji was the flame. > _What would have happened if there were not spark? I believe more credit and respect needs to go to Choi Yong Sool than alot of people, and some of his own students are providing. Keith Puglisi --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:30:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fraud Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A head's up here to let anyone in the indianapolis area know that a gentleman teaching there is a fraud. He claims I am his instructor. I am not. I have never trained this guys. His name is Chad Followell. He is claiming a 5th Dan in JuJistu, 3rd in JKD, 3rd in Escrima, 3rd in Kali, 3rd in Jun Fan Gung Fu, 2nd in TKD, 1st in Brazilian JuJitsu, Prof. San Shou fighter, 1st in HKD, Instructorship in Shinsei, Brown in Judo. He is 22. He has a class at some mall downtown Indy. I do not appreciate his fraud, especially using MY Name. Stay away. If you are in the area, look him up and pay him a visit for fun. ha ha. daryl --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --__--__-- Message: 13 From: MJD1128@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:08:17 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Craig and BJJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 11/26/2003 10:55:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > And here's something else that outside observers will never get...most > serious students in BJJ are RELUCTANT to accept rank. Do you know why? > Because you have to back that rank up on the mat. Man, the absolute WORST > thing that can happen to you in BJJ is to be the purple belt that gets > pushed all over the mat by big white belts, and regularly tapped by new blue > belts. In BJJ, this is called "beltflation"...the wearing of a belt that > you don't deserve or can't defend. This is a BIG thing in BJJ, and one of > the reasons that there aren't any Richard Hackworth's in the world of BJJ. > You can't fool people in BJJ. You can't stand at the edge of the mat and > command people's respect. You can't show up and pretend to throw three of > your students around, and make people go "Ooooooohhhhh". Doesn't work like > that. Rank is earned on the mat, so the posers never make it past white > belt. > > Craig...Im impressed. You are on the money with everything your are saying. As I told you earler, I Recently got my Purple belt from Carlson Gracie Sr. after 4.5 years of training 5/6 days a week. I was actually on my way out of the school one day and Carlson Jr. told me to put on my gi and get upstairs because his dad wanted to promote me. I was in total shock. I asked if we could wait 6 more months because I didnt feel ready for Purple. He started laughing and said his dad has been training in Jiujitsu for 65 years and knows a Purple when he sees one. The general rule is that you have to be able to tap out all the blues and a few purples before you get purple. Even though I have been doing that...I still didnt want to get promoted. Its the only system that I have trained in where students dont beg to get the next rank. I dont know about the other BJJ schools, but Carlson Sr./Jr. go out of there way to teach you new things and even though we have several brazillians in the school, I dont get treated any different. As a matter of fact, Carlson Jr and Sr are coming over to have some thanksgiving pie with my family this afternoon. Are you in the chicago area Craig? If so, Id like to meet you sometime. have a great thanksgiving all Mark --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:11:45 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] New organization Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all jusy wanted to place this here in hopes to finding some folks interested. Master Lyle Locke and I are starting up a new organization (well it's not new) but the idea is. I'll head up the west coast side of things. We are the Korea Chang Moo Kwan. Our head is GM Kim Soo Bae VP of Kukkiwon. What I'm looking for are people that are sick of the politics, games ect that come with school ownership. It really dosn't matter if you are WTF or ITF just have a strong desire to practice Tae Kwon-Do as an Art/Sport. I'm in Los Angeles CA. I'm looking for basically local folk that want to team up for some fun. Do tounaments kind of like the AAU (eventhough pretty much non existant here). Our goal take you under our wing offer KKW Cetificates, ITF Certificates & Korea Chang Moo Kwan Certificates. Please feel free to contact me for further information. Want to get this up and running as soon as possible. Please visit my website I've made some changes to it and dont froget to sign my guest book. Maldonado Kwan Jang. http://devoted.to/Taekwondo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you’ll find a range of helpful holiday info here. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:21:42 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mutual respect Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> BTW, contrary to what some of you seem to think, I don't have a problem with the fact that JR began training in HKD before I did. I sent my timeline in per request, and I did not send it in to be part of a peeing contest. I respect JR as a senior KHD player, and I have even spoken to him about working with my students should anything happen to me. That is about the most respect I could give anyone. Sincerely, Rudy <> Two 8th dans, mutual respect, no egos. You think we could learn something here folks? Proud to claim JR as my Grandmaster and Sajanim as one of my mentors. Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "eleusis" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:05:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belt timeline Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forgive me, I seem to have missed the time line discussion. On average what has been your experiences on how long it takes TKD folks to reach black belt? At our school first off nothing is guaranteed. Master Park (graduate from Yong In University and recent immigrant to the USA) offers a test every two months. You are tested on your Form, your attack and defense techniques, higher belts spar, and you are tested on your breaking. If you pass all of that you are promoted if not you have one shot to retest the following week. After that you must wait until the next testing date. If you progress successfully passing every belt test it takes about 30 months to be ready to test for a black belt. What are your experiences? Rich Kaya Martial Arts student Chicago Illinois --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest