Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:49:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #536 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Choi's students (American Hapkido Academy) 2. Re: Black Belt timeline (Ray Terry) 3. Note from Master Nabors (michael tomlinson) 4. promotions (Ray Terry) 5. Hapkido (Todd Miller) 6. Friends (Rudy Timmerman) 7. RE: Contracts (Thomas Gordon) 8. TKD Book (Randall Sexton) 9. Re: Black Belt timeline (Kip McCormick) 10. GM Ji' Off-Balancing Principles (Chosondo@aol.com) 11. Re: New Organization (Christopher Spiller) 12. KHF web site update (John Johnson) 13. KHF Master List (J T) 14. Unbalancing (chuck@rimshapkido.org) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "American Hapkido Academy" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:24:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Choi's students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has anyone had the opportunity to study with GM Lim(longest studying student of Choi Yong Sool), GM Chang( Student of Choi Yong Sool who was given all rights to the art), and GM Ji.( Student of Choi Yong Sool and founder of HapKiDo) I am curious to know how the HapKiDo techniques compare. Keith Puglisi --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Black Belt timeline To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:40:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Forgive me, I seem to have missed the time line discussion. On average what > has been your experiences on how long it takes TKD folks to reach black belt? Our discussion was about the time to 8th Dan in Hapkido. For TKD 1st Dan I'd guess that about two to three years of three to four formal practices a week is the average in the US. Others agree? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 02:48:29 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Note from Master Nabors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a note to the dojang digest crew to let everyone know that Master Nabors is safe and sound in one of the large expanses of desert somewhere in the Iraq area,,, he is doing his job and has found a couple of fellow Hapkidoists to work out with in the desert when they have time... he asked me to send along his Thanksgiving greetings and blessings and to tell everyone on the dojang digest to have a happy and safe Thanksgiving...God Bless everyone and have a great holiday. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:51:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] promotions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > that...I still didnt want to get promoted. Its the only system that I have > trained in where students dont beg to get the next rank. This sounds unusual. I've encountered very few students over the last many years that ask/beg/want to be promoted. It is very typical for them to feel unworthy, at some level, whether in HKD or TKD or Eskrima or Judo or, it sounds like, BJJ... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:54:48 -0500 From: Todd Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Are there other groups that teach unbalencing? I have seen many that do not and a few that do. Todd Miller --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:43:08 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Friends Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I guess that is what Thanksgiving is all about. Thanks JR! Randall writes: > > That sounds like a March challenge to me!! Gotta make sure I practice for that one:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Contracts Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:44:17 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net CKJN Timmerman, I agree regarding the contracts. A local school has caused a lot of ill will regarding contracts and that was one way I could set us apart from them. In regards to the tiding us over, my wife and I both work full time jobs. We've waited too long to open in our home town. The last thing we want to do is be a "belt factory." As always, thank you for the input. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Florida -----Original Message----- From: Rudy Timmerman [mailto:kwanjang@sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 2:32 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Contracts Thomas writes: > The other thing is the "no > contracts" approach. We do have EFT but you can cancel at any time. > In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with contracts if done correctly. Hello Thomas: From rigid contracts to the cancel anytime agreements, in my experience most systems will work if your particular program is properly presented to the buyer. After that, it is in the way the buyer is treated. Give them value for their money, and they will stay. You don't have to "give" rank away, and you don't have to be ashamed of earning an honest living. Very few people will come to you with the idea of wanting to earn fast rank cheap. Most will come to "earn" rank and learn good solid martial arts. Unfortunately, many school owners do not have the confidence to hold fast, and they will begin selling rank (and lose the customers' respect right alongside of it). Others will drop their fees to an amount that makes it impossible for them to keep the Dojang open, and that is just as bad for the martial arts industry. What you WILL need is enough money (or a job on the side) to tide you over until your good reputation takes hold. Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:38:00 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD Book Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to let yall know about a good book I'm reading by Grandmaster Byong Yu called "Inside U: How to Become a Master of Your Own Destiny." Hard to put the book down once started...It's da kine! Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Black Belt timeline Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:33:42 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Folks: We in the U.S. look at the time it takes to get a black belt in tkd much differently than those in Korea. I'm a US soldier stationed in Korea. In fact, I run a hapkido program in Seoul, but I also train in tkd (3d dan). In Korea, it takes about 8-12 months -- that's right -- 8-12 months to get a black belt. And that's not only for the soldier who's over here for a one year tour. That's also for the average Korean on the street. Most of the tkd dojangs you visit in Korea are inhabited by kids 16 and under, with an occasional foreigner (adult) trying to train. In my experience over here, the tkd black belt is looked at as someone who knows the basics (read: minimum) of the art. The 20 years I did tkd in America, I saw anywhere from 2-3 years for someone to get what we refer to as "the basics" if he or she is attending 3-4 classes weekly. And did I mention 8-12 months over here? (Sorry, I'm hung up on that...) I'll tell you, it blew me away when I saw how quickly folks were getting promoted here. When I did my 3d dan test at the Kukkiwon, the level of experience of the guys testing (low for what I thought 3d dans should have) shocked me. I was fortunate to spar against a Canadian 3d dan, whose skill far exceeded those of the Korean "kids" (ages 16-25) in the group. The point of the story here is that it varies where you are. My bottom line goes back to what G-master JR West always tells his instructors: Before you promote a student to black belt, ask yourself this question. If my reputation as a teacher is to be judged by observing only this student, how will I be remembered? I wish a lot of instructors remembered (and practiced) that! HKD is different. These guys throw down hard and it's a 2-4 year journey for black belt in the Korean schools. And did I mention they throw down hard?! This is my first posting on the DJ Digest -- if any of y'all are here in Seoul, please look me up! Korea's a great place, the people are some of the nicest in the world, and the martial arts is a blast over here! Take care, God bless, and Happy Thanksgiving! Kip McCormick (LTC, US Army) Seoul, South Korea (Instructor, Self Defense America-Korea (ICHF) >From: Ray Terry >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Black Belt timeline >Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:40:17 -0800 (PST) > > > Forgive me, I seem to have missed the time line discussion. On average >what > > has been your experiences on how long it takes TKD folks to reach black >belt? > >Our discussion was about the time to 8th Dan in Hapkido. > >For TKD 1st Dan I'd guess that about two to three years of three to four >formal practices a week is the average in the US. > >Others agree? > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets! http://shopping.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:10:49 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Ji' Off-Balancing Principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > .I am interested to here moreon how GM Ji uses the off balancing principle > inherent to Hapkido, as Iknow that so many do not. Do Ji's off-balancing skills are accomplished by precise timing, foot-work, and proper body-mechanics. Off course other principles at work are the push-pull, leading control, fluidity, circular movement, and blending or harmonizing with an opponent. Beyond this explanation the best way to know how this works is to train with him for a while. I hope I have helped. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster ICF --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: New Organization Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Manuel Maldonado: >Hello all jusy wanted to place this here in hopes to >finding some folks interested. Master Lyle Locke and >I are starting up a new organization (well it's not >new) but the idea is. I'll head up the west coast >side of things. We are the Korea Chang Moo Kwan. Our >head is GM Kim Soo Bae VP of Kukkiwon. What I'm >looking for are people that are sick of the politics, >games ect that come with school ownership. It really >dosn't matter if you are WTF or ITF just have a >strong desire to practice Tae Kwon-Do as an >Art/Sport. I'm in Los Angeles CA. I'm looking for >basically local folk that want to team up for some >fun. Do tounaments kind of like the AAU (eventhough >pretty much non existant here). Our goal take you >under our wing offer KKW Cetificates, ITF >Certificates & Korea Chang Moo Kwan Certificates. >Please feel free to contact me for further >information. Want to get this up and running as soon >as possible. Please visit my website I've made some >changes to it and dont froget to sign my guest book. >Maldonado Kwan Jang. http://devoted.to/Taekwondo Master Maldonado, First, let me congratulate you on setting up your new organization. I hope you experience success in your endeavor. I read about your problems with getting ITF certification when you were a member of KATU and am glad you have found a "home." I do have a question for you, however. You mentioned that your goal was to offer people Kukkiwon, Chan Moo Kwan and ITF certificates. The head of your org. is a VP of the WTF so Kukkiwons should be easy enough to come by. I am interested who your links to the Chang Moo Kwan and ITF are. I believe there's a gentleman in California who was a student of GM Lee, Nam Suk and has a Chang Moo Kwan organization (although I cannot recall his name, off hand). Are you affiliated with him, or is GM Kim a member of the Chang Moo Kwan? Also, which of the ITF's are you going to affiliate with? Anyway, good luck in the future. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:51:17 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF web site update Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I thought I'd let you know that the KHF web site has been updated with some very interesting information about international KHF masters. I thought it would be best if you or someone outside of the KHF posted the DD. John _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:04:30 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF Master List Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a little fyi. The KHF just released a listing of all "foreign" masters 4th dan and above. It seems that GM. Hack, who has claimed GM in HKD is only 6th dan, which I don't think is much of a surprise to most of us. Also, what other arts is he supposed to have a GM in? He said on another forum that he was a registered black belt in the KTA. Upon calling the KTA, they told me they do not allow foreigners in the KTA, as it is the KOREAN Taekwondo Association. Plus they said all their blackbelts are KKW certified. I contacted the KKW and they never heard of Hack. So, which arts is he supposedly a GM in? I am confused I see on the websites where he is mentioned, that he is a GM in multiple arts. Would one of his lackeys who read this list, please answer my question. I tried to call him, but he decided to make stupid insults as "BigJohnson" On the KHF website. Thanks in advance for your help. With respect, Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 14 From: chuck@rimshapkido.org To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:10:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Unbalancing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At Rim's Hapkido, taking the opponents balance is an essential part of our technique. Chuck Callahan --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest