Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #538 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Promotions and Rank (Buffy) 2. Doju Ji'a Off-balancing principles (Chosondo@aol.com) 3. Re: TKD Book (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Hapkido (Ray Terry) 5. Ji's off balancing (michael tomlinson) 6. Re: unbalancing (Klaas Barends) 7. Mr. Smith's Post (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Buffy" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Promotions and Rank Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:44:10 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I do agree with Troy Smith, Jr. But we have to admit that people train for different reasons. Personaly I do not train just to get fit, to defend myself, etc ... training is a way of living my life. One day when I earn my black belt in Hwa Rang Do I will start my own school. Then I will be furtunet to train even more than today and have the opportunity to help other people having a better life too. When I trained TKD (in my teens) I did it because of the tournaments and "the way other people looked at me" ... stupid? I think so now - but not then. I think that Rich has a good point: "Setting personal goals in the Dojang directly translates to learning how to set personal goals in life which helps produce a better person and in turn a better society." Point? I believe that you should think about EVERY hour you spend EVERY day ... why did I spend 2 hours watching a talk show? why do I have a job I hate? Why did I attend that seminar? etc. I hope you will all find the things that make you happy and having a fantasic life before you hit 60 (my Hwa Rang Do instructor has helped my on the right track). I hope you could understand what I ment even though english spelling is not one of my strongest weapons. Thomas, Denmark. 28 years old. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:15:23 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Doju Ji'a Off-balancing principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 11/29/2003 6:57:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Excuse me but I disagree. At the seminar that I attended in Colorado there > was no talk of taking the balance, un-focusing, redirecting, un-timing or > any of the other less obvious aspects of the Hapkido arts. GM Ji did not > mention it. I saw none of the students attempting it. I heard none of the > practitioners discussing it. What WAS discussed, attempted and mentioned > was the simple mechanics of leaverage and pain-compliance. It is most > certainly effective yu sool but IMHO only approaches hapki-yu-sool without > actually getting there. If GM Ji's following is as widespread as people > say, and if his instruction in Colorado was typical, then it becomes plain > why most Hapkido practitioners are, at best, yu sool adepts and do not > seem to be able to get past this level of performance. FWIW. > > Mr. Simms: Me and six of my senior dan holders have and continues to spend at least 6 intense hours per month on the mat with Doju Ji. We have been doing this for well over two years now. That being said, I have come to know him and and the manner in which he functions as a teacher quite well. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that he will delve into the nuances of Hapkido Sool in a weekend seminar. He is more concerned about the participants simply getting the skills done in a gross manner. Now, this observation is made after assisting him at several seminars and actually questioning him about it. Further, I can recall him spending three hours at a time in any giving practice sesion on this very subject (off-balancing). Moreover, Doju Ji is very much of the old school - if you study a skill with "intention and attention", the nuance of it will reveal (self-discovery) itself. He reminds me very much of my first teacher, Tatsuo Yoshitaka (Yoshin Ryu JuJitsu). He used to say to me, "don't bother asking questions unless you've done the waza at least 1000 times". Now, it was really hard to buy this rationale at age 11 when I started with him, but I came to see the wisdom in it. I hope I have shed some light and insight into how Doju Ji goes about things. Thanks. Be well Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster ICF --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TKD Book To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:24:48 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just wanted to let yall know about a good book I'm reading by Grandmaster > Byong Yu called "Inside U: How to Become a Master of Your Own Destiny." Hard > to put the book down once started...It's da kine! What is it about this book that you like so much? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:25:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Are there other groups that teach unbalencing? I have seen many that do > not and a few that do. > > Todd Miller And you, sir? Which side of the fence are you and your Hapkido? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 16:53:47 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ji's off balancing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can tell you exactly where Doju Nim Ji's off balancing comes from in his techniques. It comes from your first initial movement after you have been grabbed or when you first make contact with your opponent. Taking number 2 of the basic 8 techniques as an example... As soon as your opponent grabs your wrist you triangle step with your inner foot and at the same time using a live hand you rotate your palm directly over your triangle step while keeping your upper arm very close to your upper body. This movement when done fast causes your opponents body to shift as his arm locks out, his opposing shoulder actually juts upward and outward away from you just because of your stepping and body position and his balance breaks. This "offbalancing" lets you enter under his armpit while keeping your body much lower than his "this stepping and lowering of your weight reminds me of football techniques that I learned and then taught my defensive lineman here in Florida",, The bottom line that I have learned from Doju Nim Ji is that you move your body with your upper arms close to your side which activates your total body into the technique, you also move your body downward on a lower axis as you step. All techniques basically end up with your opponents arm, neck, etc. in total allignment with your bodies centerline, no techniques are finished with you reaching out past your center line when you apply the actual breaking pressure. Doju Nim Ji's movements remind me of a mix between a defensive lineman and an olympic clean and jerk movement,,, now let me say that I have coached weightlifting and football "defensive line and offensive line" for many years so when I train under Doju Nim Ji I have a way of translating his movement into those corresponding movements. Let me also say that I somewhat know where Bruce is coming from, the first time I trained with Doju Nim Ji I didn't even see the basic stepping and off balancing going on,, I was too busy saying to myself "yeah I know that techinque already",, BUT the second time I trained with him I SAW what he was doing on his first step and movement and the light bulb went off in my head. It's funny because Master Nabors gave me a tape of that second training and you can see me smiling like a big goon during his instructions and the reason was because I was having fun,,, dudes it clicked in my head and I saw the difference in his movement and I couldn't help but smile and laugh to myself. Fast forward ahead about 3 years from that training and I was testing for my Sin Moo 4th Dan under Master Nabors with Javier Agosto... our test consisted of us doing EVERY Sin Moo technique twice! The first time we had to move in slow motion and explain every step, grab, dip, etc... and tell why and how this made our technique work,,, the second time we did the technique full speed to show it's effectiveness. This test lasted for quite a while and involved much more than this BUT Master Nabors says that since 4th Dan means Master Instructor you should 1. Be able to comprehend and explain the reasons each technique works, and 2. be able to use the techniques full speed... You know in the past when people would deride Doju Nim Ji and his Hapkido I would get a little pissed off, but now to be honest with you I don't care,,, I know everyone has their own agenda, and that factors into their comments probably more than their actual lack of understanding. No I didn't recieve my 4th dan in Sin Moo by going to a seminar,, I had to bust my ass and LEARN the curriculum, and then demonstrate it. I know how and why those techniques work and you better believe I can use them, that is why I smile a lot now. If you truly want to understand the beauty behind what Doju Nim Ji teaches you have to put in the sweat and time. No he is not going to hold your hand and have a verbal diatribe with you. He expect you to tow the line and execute the techniques. He expects you to learn BY DOING NOT BY TALKING OR PHILOSOPHIZING!! The more he sees you bust your ass the more he WILL talk to you. If someone trains with him and doesn't get it,,, well maybe you should train more and talk less... it you never get it oh well, I don't care. One more thing,, Bruce, I know a certain Hapkido group is doing some function in Chicago pretty soon and they seem to have a lot of bad things to say about Doju Nim Ji.. Is it a coincidence that now you have become very adament about distancing yourself from Ji's training? Hummm don't have to be the manager at Radio Shack to figure that one out huh... Also I have never heard Doju Nim Ji say anything bad about this Hapkido group or any other for that matter. He did mention one group as being Chop Suey Hapkido but I won't go into that. He doesn't talk bad about any Hapkido people, he just says practicing Hapkido is good. When he sees bad Hapkido he just says they are missing some of the basics, he doesn't berate anyone. Again, I don't agree with some of the belt promotions he does,, BUT that is his business and not mine. I KNOW for a fact that I have learned a ton of Hapkido from him and I understand his basic movement and I guarantee you that I can off balance you,, period... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos, and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Klaas Barends Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 18:12:11 +0100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: unbalancing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Are there other groups that teach unbalencing? I have seen many that > do > not and a few that do. The main thing in hapkido, is to apply the technique without to much use of force (best: to apply it without useing force). If your opponent isn't unbalanced, you can only apply a techniques WITH the use of force. So hapkido without unbalancing techniques, isn't hapkido anymore. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:14:36 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Smith's Post Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't know Troy Smith and I don't practice TKD. But let me say that I really enjoyed Troy's post and I think he hit it on the head for every martial art... just train and be happy, all the rest will come to you when you deserve it.. Very nice post Mr. Smith,,, Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Say “goodbye” to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest