Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #540 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Byong Yu (Rudy Timmerman) 2. talkin bout folks (L. Veuleman) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Off-balancing_stuff?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Re:GM Hwang (Manuel Maldonado) 5. Re: forget?? (Michael Whalen) 6. Re: Re:GM Hwang (Jye nigma) 7. Re: Re: forget?? (Braeswood Martial Arts) 8. Re: unbalancing (Michael Whalen) 9. MA Expert Kills Two (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 10. Hyungs again (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:12:26 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Byong Yu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Randall writes: > Poor physically and mentally handicapped Korean boy (whose parents > were told > should be left in a corner to die) hooks up with Korean master. Known > as the > "Ugly Boy," Byong Yu refuses to give up, is taught several harsh > lessons about > life, comes to the USA, becomes homeless, almost commits suicide, > completes a > college degree (eventually a Ph.D), becomes a champion, gets his > picture taken > with other famous people (just like other MAs do!) writes a really > nice book > about his life plus some tidbits about life thrown in. A movie is > being made > about him called "Monkey Man." Hello Randall: I remember Master Byong Yu as one of the VERY FEW Korean Masters to put it on the line in competition back in the old days (mid to late 60's), and he was very good. I'll have to look up that book just for old time sakes. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:15:53 -0800 (PST) From: "L. Veuleman" To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] talkin bout folks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Digest, Hope everyone had a great thanksgiving, and ate lots of good food. Bruce, It seems like you are kinda at a brick wall about the GM Ji thing. I am sure he isn't BAD for ya'lls hapkido, so try not to worry too much about who's the best-est or done the most-est. I have a point of veiw on a TKD guy that I voiced on here bout a year ago, I think I probably pissed enough people off to get on a hit list of some sort, but It really made me research my stuff, and while I still have some VERY negative opinions about him, I am sure he isn't that bad, and no matter what good or bad he does it will NEVER effect me over here. I think those who are close to him (GM JI) will keep him on a pedestol, and those who are new to the world of Hapkido or KMA in general will take in all of the data and form their own opinions. Nobody has to hate anybody, we can just like some people more than others....Right? YITMA Charlie Veuleman ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:24:50 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Off-balancing_stuff?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mike: "......Michael Tomlinson writes "I can off balance you,, period..." You may or you may not nothing in Hapkido is guaranteed. You may begin a movement and the opponent will counteract and remain in balance, if they sense what you are doing. ................" If you are speaking of operating solely at the "yu sool" level of performance I dare say you are probably correct. In training one sees very often that when two individuals do paired work, the simple knowledge of what is about to happen allows the attacker to adjust in preparation to the defenders' technique. It is, after all, quite simple to stymie a defense when one knows what the tactic will be be, yes? Moving a step ahead and remaining at the yu sool level, all things being equal, one could reasonably expect a "zero-sum" result with an experienced attacker thwarting a defensive technique of an experienced defender if that technique can be identified quickly enough. Now, raising the execution to the next higher level of training, hapki-yu- sool, ones' execution of a defensive technique would incorporate the neuro- muscular response of the attacker as the defensive technique is applied. Aikido people make much of being "in harmony with the attacker" when it is simply maintaining sensate awareness of the attackers' responses as one applies the technique. At this point you have three choices. 1.) To continue to complete the technique of choice in the manner intended, 2.) up the level of pain-compliance or muscle effort, or 3.) transition into an alternate technique that exploits the attackers resistance to the first technique. Michael reports that he can take your balance and my prayer is that he is right and that he can do this consistently. You seem to think otherwise. For my part, I don't know. I have not worked on the mat with either of you. However, if I proposed to take your balance, AND the result was that you were able to successfully anticipate and thwart my defensive tactic, I would expect that I could transition into an alternate technique seamlessly rather than muscle my way through the initial technique. Afterall strength is something that wanes with age. Sound execution is forever, yes? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:39:22 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:GM Hwang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In regards to Tom Meztner. Yes you are apsolutly right I did infact recieve my ITF Certificate. I spoke with GM Hwang I also appologized to him. He and I since patched things up. To my understanding it really wasn't his fault. With the passing of the General and all. Seems everything in the ITF was messed up. I also would like to make a piblic apology to all of you my actions were not professional as I spoke wrongly og my Greand Master. Manuel Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:13:10 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: forget?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net < Much to the chagrin of some who like to forget I was ever associated with WKSA, I was there > Hey, pictures don't lie and yours is in the KSW black textbook volume 1, page 228 along with the words MASTER CANADA. It's truly saddening that the politics,policies, and personal opinions of the higher ups in MA's only seem to flow one way and that's downhill...... Very Respectfully Yours, michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:22:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:GM Hwang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is this GM Hwang from Connecticut? If so I need to contact him about a student of his I lost contact with. Jye Manuel Maldonado wrote: In regards to Tom Meztner. Yes you are apsolutly right I did infact recieve my ITF Certificate. I spoke with GM Hwang I also appologized to him. He and I since patched things up. To my understanding it really wasn't his fault. With the passing of the General and all. Seems everything in the ITF was messed up. I also would like to make a piblic apology to all of you my actions were not professional as I spoke wrongly og my Greand Master. Manuel Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: forget?? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:24:11 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Mike, I am sure your book like mine was printed prior to the separation of Master Timmerman from the WKSA. And as the post states "who like to forget" not that they have or deny anything... yet... Your friend, Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: forget?? > < Much to the chagrin of some who like to forget I was ever associated > with WKSA, I was there > > > Hey, pictures don't lie and yours is in the KSW black textbook volume 1, > page 228 along with the words MASTER CANADA. It's truly saddening that > the politics,policies, and personal opinions of the higher ups in MA's > only seem to flow one way and that's downhill...... > > Very Respectfully Yours, > michael whalen KSWnut > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:42:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: unbalancing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Are there other groups that teach unbalancing? It is incorporates in some of the KSW techniques.... michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 9 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:13:42 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] MA Expert Kills Two Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1061765,00.html Martial arts expert kills two raiders Philip Willan in Rome Monday October 13, 2003 The Guardian A Chinese martial arts expert was in custody yesterday after turning the tables on four burglars armed with knives, killing two of them and seriously wounding a third. The 28-year-old man, known as "the doctor" for his practice of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, managed to seize one of the two knives carried by his assailants and saw off the entire group with the ferocity of his reaction. Magistrates in the central Italian town of Empoli are now seeking to establish whether his self-defence constituted an excessive use of force. The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film, began shortly before midnight on Friday when the four men knocked at the apartment of a Chinese hairdresser in the centre of Empoli. The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", who operated from the same premises, were reportedly overpowered and tied up before the group, all thought to be in their 20s and 30s, ransacked the apartment. Disappointed by their meagre booty, the attackers allegedly threatened to rape the two women unless they told them where the rest of their money was hidden. At this point the doctor managed to free himself, seize a knife from one of the aggressors and deliver a series of lethal stab wounds. Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung. The doctor was found crouching in the entrance to the building with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands. Investigators are trying to determine whether he inflicted the injuries while defending himself inside the apartment, or hunted down the burglars after they had fled. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:24:55 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Hyungs again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bruce and others, Sorry, I am a little late on this thread that we had going about a month ago, but. I was re-reading Richard Chun's excellent Taekwondo Book over the last few weeks and finally looked at the Palgwe sets. First, to clarify a little I'd say most of my hand motions and stance come out like Chun/Nakayama, but my kicks are less traditional. My kicking experience starts in the Jhoon Rhee Institute, then moves to Jae Chul Shin's method, and includes Master James Allison's Sun Moo Kwan methods at the same time of my advancement from 2nd dan to 3rd dan in Tang Soo Do. Finally, I am now influenced by Master McHenry and GM Hodder, and what Coach Han Lee does with Olympic sparring. So our school's style of kicking (after passing through the JKD theory filter) is a synergy of the above influences. I will leave it there as that's an entire thread all by itself. Bruce asked, why anyone would add two sets of hyungs to one's training and/or what value added occurs in say knowing 26 kata versus 3 to 5 over a 30-50 year career (paraphrasing and embelishing). So for me, going back to Funakoshi, learning a variety of styles of hyung suited for different body types both your own and not suited to your body type help you learn more about your opponent and yourself, and to be a good instructor, you will need to teach what others may be good at in addition to what you are good at so I can see the value in 3-5 kata if you only train yourself, or in the sado mu sul (family tradition), but I also see the value in about 8-10 required hyung for a first dan level. What does this have to do with Pal-gwe. Let me put my eflame-proof hogu on and.... In looking at the Pal-gwe sets, I got this feeling that someone was playing yatzee with all the moves in the Pyung Ahn/Heian sets. I really have to question the reason for adding something new if what happened was mostly a re-ordering of techniques. If I was going to re-order the techniques I would try to group them in increasing complexity of new skills and eliminate the duplication down to 3 or 4 instead of 8 poomse. I understand Songham sets are developed this way... I guess, I'm saying I can see why the WTF abandoned them, but I'm wondering if the TaeKyuk's have any different philosophy or ordering of complexity? Going back to the question. 1. I could put a good 30+ years (to get to 50 years training) on just Bassai, Naihanji I-III, Jindo, Rho-Hai, Kong Sang Koon, Seisan, Sip Soo, Wansu, Jion and Oh Sip Sa Bo. 2. In a time management efficiency, I personally don't realy "practice" the Kicho Hyungs or the Pyung Ahns as they are "learning" forms for the Hyungs I am working on. I do teach them 3 nites a week and once in a blue moon I do train all my forms, but even then I have started doing them in reverse order. 3. Do I need those "extra" 8 hyung and are there duplications in the higher hyung? Yes. 4. I think as a system we need the pyung ahns to get color belts ready for the more advanced sets. Following that logic, the Kichos are a nice entry level if you teach kids, and enjoyed by the older adults that enjoy forms practice more than sparring. 5. It appears that advanced concepts appear in the higher forms in addition to triple action techniques and multiple strikes to the same target/area. The applications to which may be more advanced. So for me I can't see adding to the Sho Rin Ryu sets, or reordering them with another label. How many is enough? IMHO about 5-10 to get to chodan and about 5-10 more advanced. If you buy into the one per belt level and kata performance as a standard for rank advancement, then about 19-20 should be enough, If you have more time in your cirricula for waza or bunkai, then I'd say 10 will seam like more than enough solo Kata, but then you probably have hundreds of two man kata's Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest