Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:42:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #541 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hapkido Unbalancing (Amed Hazel) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_GM_Ji_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hyung_stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. BEWARE: Shop through the Ages.com (Lasich, Mark D.) 5. Re: MA Expert Kills Two (Jesse Segovia) 6. From Another Group...Aikido's founder (Jye nigma) 7. Hyungs (Dewitt, Garrett) 8. baby hyung (L. Veuleman) 9. RE: Hyungs again (Stovall, Craig) 10. The King is falling (J T) 11. RE: RE: Hyungs again (Scott D. Feldstein) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:03:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Unbalancing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Rim teaches un/off balancing from the very first technique. Does he explain it to the beginner! No! He will just continue to throw you to the ground and act as if he doesn't understand your questions. I asked him about this and his response was, "I only explain it to those that have shown that they will stay." He said the Dojunim was my teacher but he was also my good friend and many night he would call me over to his house and show me thing that were never taught in class. I still learn a lot about the basic techniques from him. Each technique contains a wealth of knowledge that would take volumes to put in a book. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:47:38 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_GM_Ji_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charlie: ".....I think those who are close to him (GM JI) will keep him on a pedestol, and those who are new to the world of Hapkido or KMA in general will take in all of the data and form their own opinions......" Many thanks. I just knew if I waited long enough somebody else would see the point I was striving to make. For myself, I admire GM Myung, and even though he has handled me pretty roughly over the years, and I can be critical of his practices and policies, I support his approach to things and can understand others doing the same with their personalities-of- choice. I also agree with you about letting words such as "the best" or "the most...." slip into the discussion. I am sure that people who subscribe to other ways of practicing the Hapkido arts feel just as priveleged to train with the folks they follow. Despite being a WHF member, I am looking forward to training with GM Lim, Hyun-soo when he comes to Chicago next Spring, and if I had a chance to train with Chang Chin Il or Rim or a dozen others I'd jump at the chance. I got a superb time training with the AHA people this last Saturday. I'm still grieving not being able to make it to Baton Rouge in Novemeber for Dr. Kimms' seminar and I have every intention of attending his events when circumstances allow. I'll say again, I am sure that everyone has their favorite KMA personality and I know that makes discussing them dispassionately a difficult proposition. It does not have to be interpreted as a personal affront and I think your post proves that. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:06:46 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hyung_stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "......Bruce asked, why anyone would add two sets of hyungs to one's training and/or what value added occurs in say knowing 26 kata versus 3 to 5 over a 30-50 year career (paraphrasing and embelishing). So for me, going back to Funakoshi, learning a variety of styles of hyung suited for different body types both your own and not suited to your body type help you learn more about your opponent and yourself, and to be a good instructor, you will need to teach what others may be good at in addition to what you are good at so I can see the value in 3-5 kata if you only train yourself, or in the sado mu sul (family tradition), but I also see the value in about 8-10 required hyung for a first dan level......" This is a real coincidence that you bring this issue back up right now as I am about 8 days into a 10 day experiment regarding the hyung that I do. As I have mentioned before I practice Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido and the five hyung that I perform for that art were organized by GM Myung for the WHF. Likewise I have mentioned in the past that GM Myung had considerable training in TKD and his hyung reflect a significant influence from those early TKD forms --- probably from Shotokan. That said I decided to take time out for a 10 day period to see if solely practicing the Pinan (Pyong Ahn) hyung would produce any interesting effects. I must report that from the second day of practice I was already noticing significant response in my body. 1.) One significant difference was a new-found soreness on the margins of the trapezius as well as the sterno-mastoid in the neck. 2.) I also found that proper performance of the Pinan Kata (especially the first three) compelled me to work from a lower stance providing for a challenging workout over a wider range of motion. 3.) Finally, the Pinan kata seemed to be better integrated. By this I mean that the YMK Hyung seemed to be much easier to identify as a string of discrete techniques, while the Pinan kata flowed more smoothly, transitioning from one method to another. I also think that there was better balance between the use of right and left sides of the body, especially using the hands and arms. I don't think I will be abandoning the use of the YMK hyung, but I am considering making time to revisit the Okinawa-te material of my past for whatever other benefits I might uncover. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:33:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] BEWARE: Shop through the Ages.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to share an experience with the list so that nobody else will fall prey to this trap: I placed an order for some MA stuff at 'shopthroughtheages.com' on October 4, and while they cashed my check on October 14, I have not yet received the merchandise. Repeated Emails to the "company" yielded nothing (that is the only means of communication listed on their web site). Searching BBB records, I did find a phone number, only to call and receive the message: "the cellular subscriber you are calling is not currently available". A formal complaint has been filed with the BBB, and they are pursuing, but admit they also may not get a response from the "company". If BBB yields nothing, next step is small claims court...... Buyer beware! In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:01:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jesse Segovia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: MA Expert Kills Two Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What a shame it appears the victim here, the martial artist forced to kill in order to defend his live and the lives of two other women, is now being victimized again by the police. 'Seems the assumption is he is guilty of using excessive force and he's going to have to prove otherwise. Jesse From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] MA Expert Kills Two > http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1061765,00.html > Martial arts expert kills two raiders --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:55:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From Another Group...Aikido's founder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There tends to be a lot of revisionism in relation to the history of WWII particularly wiht respect to Japan's part in it. The Japanese steadfastly refuse to accept responsibility for any of their war crimes and we can thank Gen. MacArthur for that. He felt the greater need was keeping the Japanese communist menace in check and forgave Japanese war criminals in exchange for their influence. They helped in recruiting the Yakusa to quell the communist movement in post-war Japan and their influence is still deeply entrenched in the rulng Japanese political party. One only has to look at recent history to see the corruption of vote buying in the 70's and the fall of successive Japanese governments. The Japanese still treat other Asians with contempt and the Japanese Yakusa still have tentacles that reach all the way to Hawaii and L.A. On a recent trip to Palau I saw Yakusa owned Kareoke bars. (the real meaning of the word is "outward bound" refering to the turn of century japanese prostitutes on their way to the U.S. bordellos of Calif. The Japanese now joking refer to them as Japenoke...American and European women on their way to Japan to be "hostesses" in bars. A real kareoke bar is like the one seen in "Black Rain". You go to a bar and pick a hostess by number to join you for the evening. She harmonizes with you when you sing and makes you sound great.) The bars in Palau were staffed by Filipinas's imported by the Yakusa for just that purpose. Abuse of other asians is intitutionalized, Casio use to import 500+ prostitutes for their annual company parties. With respect to the Japanese behavior in WWII. Discipline in the Imperial Japanese Army was enforced by brutality. Recruites were brutalized by their peers in a kind of fraternity hazing run amok. It was accepted in the mistake belief that it innured the soldier to hardship. Even officers were not immune it is an established fact that though officers in other armies tended to be taller than average. In the IJA the opposite was true. This was due to the rigorous officer training beginning in what we would call Jr. ROTC through their military academy. Sources have reported that the diet fed the officers was so poor it actually stunted their growth (Pacific War Encyclopedia; J. A. Dunnigan) resulting in an officer corp below average in stature. The brutality visited on on another resulted in who were calloused to hardship to be sure, but lacking in any empathy for their prisoners. A recent example was amply demonstrated on the PBS special on the Burma Railway. An engineer who worked on the railway and oversaw the deaths of thousands of Allied POWs and tens of thousands of Asian workers dismissed the deaths due ot malnutrition, overwork, disease and abuse, with a shrug as due to the necessity of war. He personally could not feel any remorse or responsibility. I believe this is due to the cultural mindset fostered in Japan over the last 50+ years and accepted by the older and younger generations, that they were somehow the victims. With regard to Ueshiba, he may not have been a militant, but he was surely caught up in the culture, as they say in Japan the nail that stands up gets hammered down. It is well established that he taught at both military academies, and police academies. This would not have occurred if he was an outspoken pacifist. It is my opinion that Japan as a culture has a long way to come in facing and accepting their participation in recent history. Even the sacred Yasukuni Shrine is not immune to revisionism...the special memorial there to the "Seven Martyrs" memorializes the seven principal war criminals tried and executed by the Allies after the war. This is akind to the Germans erecting a memorial to Hitler, Geobbles, Heydrich, Bormann, Himmler, and others, a chilling thought indeed. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:12:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hyungs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In reviewing the posts regarding "two or three sets of Hyungs," we have always done two sets from White Belt through Black Belt rank at our DoJang. I was trained in the Chang Hon/Chun Ji, Tae Geuk and Chung Bong Hyungs. I no longer teach the Chung Bong Hyungs. As a member of the NKMAA and "now" a legitimate registered Kong Shin Bup Geup holder, I am once again training in three different sets of Hyungs. For me, this has been an excellent addition to the facilitation of all Hyungs which we do. Respectfully Submitted Master Garrett DeWitt Korean Chung Do Kwan --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:22:18 -0800 (PST) From: "L. Veuleman" To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] baby hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (charles r)3-5 kata if you only train yourself, or in the sado mu sul (family tradition), but I also see the value in about 8-10 required hyung for a first dan level.(charles r.) Hey man, whats new? Hope everything is good in Gawja. I was reading over your last post, and liked the ideas. I agree you need around ten forms to first degree. We have the 6 kuk mu ( i call them the baby forms), then 5 pyong an, then Chul Gi 1, Pal Sek, Hangetsu, and first staff form. We take about 4 years to black. Some of my tournament competitors will pick up Pal ge 2 and 7. That is a bunch, and the easy thing to do would be to drop those silly kuk mu forms. But then again people must consider what is happening in those first forms, good ol building blocks. If I was to only ever teach adults EVER again, I might would be interested in blending or breaking up our Kuk Mu forms, but even then those adults would miss out on that training opportunity at the lower level. You have to have um. Bottom line. Plus, we talk alot about application in class, and I would hate dealing with that with white orange and yellow belts ("okay new student, this is where the bad guys arm bends the unnatural way....don't tell your mom"....Just kidding guys, I don't move em that fast). After those six kuk mu forms, I think students are finally ready to get going good. Just a thought... Charlie Veuleman ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:38:27 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hyungs again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< So our school's style of kicking (after passing through the JKD theory filter) is a synergy of the above influences. I will leave it there as that's an entire thread all by itself.>>> Ohhhhhh, but what a good thread it would be!!! Seriously, not to find fault here...but, the whole JKD approach to TSD has always confused me. Could you expand on this a bit? Now, before I begin...understand I'm not one of these JKD groupies that takes what Lee said and treats it as the martial gospel. So, I won't fault anyone who takes what Lee was saying, and re-interprets it for their own self-expression. In the end, that's what it was all about...self-expression. However, JKD was about self-expression/personal development through exploring the truth of interpersonal combat. I think you would agree that Lee would be the first in line to take you to task over your practice of hyungs. After all, forms practice was the centerpiece of what he considered the "classical mess" of Asian fighting arts. Then again, I'd be the first to take Lee to task on a couple of fronts. I don't see how he understood fighting in its "isness", and somehow kept all that Wing Chun compound trapping and energy drills (chi sao, lop sao cycle, etc). Furthermore, others would accuse me of being too dense to see the value in that stuff (even though I did it myself for 5+ years). Oh well, enough about Lee's JKD...I guess I'm interested in understanding YOUR JKD...what is YOUR truth. How does the JKD concept fit into the overall framework of Mojakwan? How did hyungs make it through the JKD KISS test, and remain in your curriculum? Just curious. Craig "Way of the Draggin'" Stovall P.S., that's draggin', as in "I'm so old my @$$ is draggin'". CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:18:27 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The King is falling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The following is an email transaction between Mst. Clay and Mst. H. I spent close to 3 hours on the phone last night talking with Mst. Clay regardless what others may feel about him, I would like to go on record stating that I feel he is a good man who fell into bad company. He too has been burned by the latest events of the KHF and the actions of Mr. H. He sent this too me with permission to redistribute it here and other places. Take good notice how Mr. H once again tries to pull a CYA. "From: "FRANK CLAY" To: drhackworth@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Rank Question Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 07:17:10 -0800 Richard, We are talking about what the KHF has posted on their site. I saqw it with my own two eyes. We are not talkin about Hal Whalen. The bottom line is that I paid for a rank, that I received, and it was fraudulent. I begged you last night to come clean with me, and you denied me that, and you had the damn nerve to tell me that for another grand you would fix it. That is intolerable. I should have known what the deal was when I found those KTMS dan certs. I knew something was wrong, but yet, I did not want to admit it. Bad mouth me, say what you want, but know this, I'm done, and once I get back to Florida, I will see to it this certificate is not only sent to the KHF, it will be posted on every website that will have it. You are a con artist and a bad man. I want nothing else to do with you, the KMAIA or anyone affiliated with you. To think, I made a fool out of myself defending you. You have put every instructor affiliated with you at risk, legally, by putting them in a position wherein they are unwittingly committing fraud. How the hell can you sleep at night? I knew that something was wrong when Fabian's cert looked different from mine... and lo and behold, guess who appears on the web, and guess who does not. Ray Terry and everyone else was right about you. You were closer to me than my own family. And this is what you do, and this is what I get for trusting you. To anyone who would give you money for anything, I would say they need to watch themselves. As I received this certificate via mail, I will be checking with the authorities to see if their if there is some criminal impropriety involved. Fortunately for you, I think that the statute of limitations will have passed. I will see to it that all of my students know about this. I don't want anyone else giving you money for false rank. So call me a liar. You know as well as I, that I have never lied, and have always been above board. You took advantage of my loyalty and my ethics. This makes me sick to my stomach, but as I told you, I am so close to never putting on a dobok again, it is not funny. I sincerely hope you are proud of yourself. You bring dishonor to the KHF. You slander their name, and you take advatage of people who do not know. Yet, when I get back to Florida, the world, at the very least will see this certificate. From: Richard Hackworth Reply-To: Richard Hackworth To: Frank Clay Subject: Re: Rank Question Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:02:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Sent : Monday, December 1, 2003 6:00 PM Dear Frank: You are talking about a list from the internet. Not the pages of the Bible. Fabian's name was on a list from Colombia that was added. There are a lot of people not on the list that should be. There are also a few names on that list who should not be there. Like "Ronald C. Garland" as a 5th Dan. That is "Chris Garland" who only holds ranking from Ji Han Jae and JinJungKwan. Also, "Mark D. Rhoades" who should not be on the list because that is a fake name that "Michael D. Rhoades" used to apply for rank under after he was kicked out. Same for "Mike Byrd" who was kicked out under his legal name, "James M. Byrd". So, now you believe Whalen??? Oh Se Lim says that Whalen does not have rank with the KHF, only ChunDoKwan, but his sorry ass is on the list. And why is there not a single Korean name on the list for Masters living outside of Korea??? By the way, your appointment certificate gives you a higher authority than your Dan Rank because it says "KwanJang". I would like to catch your rank up to your title when we can. Oh Se Lim will be back at my school in April. I suggest you make it this time if humanly possible, it is by invitation only. Consider yourself officially invited :) . I just found out Friday that I have a 6 year old daughter. So I will be a little tied up for a few days making arrangements to see her for the first time. By the way, when is Hal Whalen hosting an official KHF event with Oh Se Lim??? Because anyone else just doesn't have the same pull. Sincerely, Richard Hackworth -----Original Message----- From: Frank Clay Sent: Dec 1, 2003 8:56 PM To: "Dr. Richard Hackworth" Subject: Rank Question Hal Whalen published a list of people who hold 4th Dan or above from the KHF database. My name is not on it, but Fabian's is. Fabian's certificate looked different from mine as well, so now I'm curious as to why I do not appear on the list. That makes me look like a liar, and I don't appreciate it. I still don't have the first shipment of videos, and would really like to know what is going on. I have supported and defended you, but this is leaving me out to hang. My cert, which I paid for, looks just like one that someone traced and found theirs was invalid, and I defended that too, indicating that it may have been a Kwan certificate. Why is mine not legit? Mine did not say HanMooKwan, mine said Dae Han indicating it was supposedly registered with the KHF, but it did not look like the one Fabian received. His looked like my appointment certificate. What is going on? Did I get one of the certs that was "fraudulent"? Is there something I should know? I, and my students, have been with you for about 6 years. We have stuck with you through thick and thin, but I really need some answers on this. Frank Clay" You may verify the legitimacy of this email by contacting Mst. Clay at 317-698-0730. Let me also say he is not the only person in the Hack camp that is trying to distance himself. With respect, Jeremy aka "Ninjaboy" to Hack __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:29:52 -0700 From: "Scott D. Feldstein" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Hyungs again To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forms practice is "classical mess"? I can see where someone might say it didn't have enough to do with actual, real-world self-defense scenarios. I don't know enough about Bruce Lee or his JKD to comment on what he did or didn't mean. But I have been recently introduced to the idea that forms practice can be a kind of "moving meditation." That is, forms practice may be more related to the mental and spiritual aspects of martial arts than the "martial" side. If one forgets these aspects one is simply an athlete and not an artist. But in all likelihood I have it wrong. I am a newcommer to martial arts. -- scott d. feldstein scott@scottfeldstein.net http://scottfeldstein.net/ > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hyungs again > From: "Stovall, Craig" > Date: Tue, December 02, 2003 8:38 am > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > After all, forms practice was the centerpiece > of > what he considered the "classical mess" of Asian fighting arts. > > Craig "Way of the Draggin'" Stovall --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest