Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:01:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #543 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. forms and an opinion (A. Boyd) 2. Re: Chung Bong Hyungs (lkeatley@sympatico.ca) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Orphans_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. RE: Moja Kwan and JKD Theory again (Stovall, Craig) 5. Re: MA Expert kills two (Jesse Segovia) 6. RE: Moja Kwan and JKD Theory again (Stovall, Craig) 7. AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for December 2003 (Ray Terry) 8. Bruce's Orphans (Ray Terry) 9. Re: Re: MA Expert kills two (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Shipping Fraud (ABurrese@aol.com) 11. Property and deadly force (Brian Beach) 12. All those Hyungs (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:30:43 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] forms and an opinion Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Practice of forms are a major part of training in Haidong Gumdo. In my own study I am at 26 forms and counting. The forms are fast, intense, and of course involve a long, sharp piece of steel. Repetition of the forms seems very useful and productive to me - but only when *not* done like the strip mall green belt that Craig described. Each repetition lets me pay a little more attention to what I am doing in the form, how my body is and is not working, what the rhythm should and should not be, where the power should and should not be coming from. Each repetition teaches me a little bit more about how to learn that form. Each step I take in understanding the form, teaches me a little bit more about how to maximize the effectiveness of my sword use. My sparring practice improves my sparring, my forms practice - when diligent and honest, improves all that I do with the sword. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 From: To: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 8:07:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chung Bong Hyungs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Master Dewitt, What are these Chung Bong forms that you speak of? Are these empty handed or with a staff? I am curious about this and wonder why you have been holding out on me. Re: Kong Shin Bup Geup rank Now that you are one of us, the "real" pain can commence! :) Lorne Keatley > Master Dewitt wrote: > In reviewing the posts regarding "two or three sets of Hyungs," we have > always done > two sets from White Belt through Black Belt rank at our DoJang. I was > trained in the Chang Hon/Chun Ji, Tae Geuk and > Chung Bong Hyungs. I no longer teach the Chung Bong Hyungs. As a member of > the NKMAA and "now" a legitimate registered Kong Shin Bup Geup holder, I am > once again training in three different sets of Hyungs. For me, this has > been an excellent addition to > the facilitation of all Hyungs which we do. > > Respectfully Submitted > Master Garrett DeWitt > Korean Chung Do Kwan --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:56:50 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Orphans_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Alain: As someone who has argueably suffered a bit more than most from the machinations of the Hackworth camp, there is, candidly, some part of myself that wouldn't mind going the ol' "I told you so"-route and revelling in the pain of those who are watching their KMA careers unravel. As tempting as that might be for me, I quickly remember that people such as this are the very folks to whom I have committed my teaching efforts. Frauds and charlatans are with us always, and so, then, are their victims. For my part, I am but a single person, however I would take this opportunity to reinterate what I have shared on other Nets. Members of the KMA community need to watch how leadership among the various organizations deals with these proceedings. I believe we need to learn from and become involved in these matters. At the risk of antagonizing anyone on this Net who may be reading this, I don't think that I am telling tales out of school that the reason that many frauds and miscarriages can occur is that the majority of folks do not want to be involved. More than any other time I believe NOW is the time to become involved and demonstrate why it is that anyone would want to be part of an organization. At the risk of putting too fine a point on this, and only because I identify you, Alain, as one of the leaders in the KMA community I would suggest at least the following items. a.) That the KHF be pro-active in supporting the prosecution of anyone who has compromised the image and integrity of the organization. The message must be clear that betraying the trust the organization provides to its designated representatives carries a significant consequence. b.) That the KHF provide for a comprehensive testing program by which the legitimate standing of the individuals can be determined according to the criteria outlined in the performance standards of the organization. (I will also go on record as saying that though it may be tempting to merely "grandfather" individuals into comparable organizational ranks, I must point out that it was in this fashion that we first found ourselves on this slippery slope.) c.) That the KHF committ to a program over the next 24 months of seminars, or workshops or intensive (here insert label of your choice)whereby membership may have the opportunity to experience direct guidance regarding performance, technical skills and management expectations directly from officers of standing in the organization. (I know this last point carries heavy financial responsibilities because of the travel and logistics it entails. My hope is that the KHF leadership will work out some sharing agreement with leadership here in the States to address this.) It is no secret on this board that I am not a KHF member. I am WHF and I am proud of that. The sole reason that I chose to post this letter to you, Alain, and by extension to other KHF folks on this Net, is that none of us operate in a vacuum. The WHF has its own dirty laundry, I'm sure. But sooner or later we must resolve that whether we subscribe to the guidance of Rudy or JR, Joo Bang Lee or Han Jae Ji, whatever touches some of us touches ALL of us. Do you have any thoughts or comments as a leader in the KHF? Do any of the KHF leaders want to comment on what I have written? I think I am safe in saying that KHF members could use some guidance or encouragement. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:16:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Moja Kwan and JKD Theory again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the response. I'm not familiar with the term "theoretical JKD". Is this Beasley's personal take on JKD? CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:26:28 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jesse Segovia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: MA Expert kills two Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Aaron Lassman" wrote: > in Washington State, as long as this guy > didn't go chasing them down (not likely since it sounds as if all their stab > wounds are anterior), he was completely justified. Hmm, I wonder what happens if one of the guys running away turns and says "just wait 'till I get back to my gang! You, your family and your friends are all DEAD!" Are you then justified in giving chase and making sure this guy doesn't make it back to his gang? Jesse --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:33:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Moja Kwan and JKD Theory again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the response. I'm not familiar with the term "theoretical JKD". Is this Beasley's personal take on JKD? CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:52:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for December 2003 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Here is your AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for December 2003. AAU Taekwondo competitions feature both Olympic and Point sparring, and traditional Taekwondo forms, including WTF, ITF, and TSD/MDK forms may be performed. For more information visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org In This Issue: *Master Henry To Oversee Dan Certificates *AAU Announces 2004 National Championship *AAU Junior Olympic Games Date Set *AAU Members in the News *Official's Corner: 2003-2004 Rules of Competition *Tournament & Events Schedule *Master Henry To Oversee Dan Certificates Master James Henry will take over the processing of AAU Dan Certificates. Applications and fees will still go to Master Mike Friello, but Master Henry will handle the actual processing of the certificates. Says Master Henry, "It is my goal to have certificates turned around in five business days from the time I receive the application to the time I mail them back to you." To learn more about the AAU Dan Certification Program visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org. *AAU Announces 2004 National Championship Master Friello today formally announced the site of the 2004 AAU National Youth and Adult Taekwondo Championship. This year's event will be held at the Greater Ft. Lauderdale Convention Center, July 6-10, 2004. The Headquarters Hotel for this event will be the Marriott Marina located within walking distance of the venue. Reservation for the event may be made by calling Marriott reservations at 1 800-433-2254. A Group rate of $95.00 has been secured for all AAU attendees. We've added one full day to this event in 2004 based on the explosive growth over the past two years and the anticipated influx of former USTU members due to the USTU's decertification by the USOC. A complete athlete package will be available on our website shortly. *AAU Junior Olympic Games Date Set The 2004 AAU Junior Olympic Games competition has been scheduled for August 4-7, 2004 in Des Moines, IA. This multi-sport competition will feature some 12,000+ athletes participating in 25+ AAU Sports including Taekwondo. This event IS NOT the 'Junior Olympics' many of our USTU colleagues are more familiar with. The USTU's Junior Olympics has been more akin to our Youth National Championship to be held in July in Ft. Lauderdale says Master Friello. That event is open to all ages and all ranks who have qualified through our Association (state) and Regional Championships. The JO Games event is limited to 6-17 year old Red/Brown and Black Belts only. For those looking for 2,000 plus competitors of all ages, our Nationals in Ft. Lauderdale is the place to be. *AAU Members in the News Current AAU Taekwondo Team Team Member and Women's Team Captain, Ms. Taren Ogata recently captured Gold Medals at the 28th NCTA Collegiate Taekwondo Championship in Lynnwood, Washington. Ms Ogata, representing Sacrament City College, took Gold Medal in BOTH Women's Fin gyo-roogi and 3rd Dan and Higher Women's Poomse. Also placing at the NCTA Championship were former AAU Team Members Stephen Shipley from the University of Central Oklahoma and Ms. Brandy Smith of University of Arkansas. Stephen captured the Bronze Medal in Men's Feather Weight sparring while brandy took Bronze in Women's Heavy Weight. Congratulations to each of these outstanding AAU Taekwondo players on a job well done. *Official's Corner: 2003-2004 Rules of Competition By Rick Blair By now many of you are undoubtedly aware of the current situation involving the National Governing Body (NGB) for taekwondo in the United States. The unfortunate chain of events that lead the USOC to this action places a lot of questions in the minds of athletes and their coaches wandering what this all means for them and their opportunities for competition. Fortunately, AAU Taekwondo will continue its twelve-year tradition of offering safe, fair competition at local, regional and national levels, for youth and adults of all belts. Along with the other members of the Technical Rules Committee (TRC) I have been working to ensure that AAU Taekwondo Olympic-Style rules mirror that of the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF). By examining the recent changes the WTF has made to their rules, and fully incorporating them into AAU rules, we feel we'll be able to offer Olympic Sparring competition to our current athletes as well as those who may just be coming into the program due to the confusion that exists regarding the NGB. In addition to adopting the WTF rules, I'll see that officials and coaches around the country are trained on these. I want to ensure that coaches, as well as the officials, fully understand these rules and their interpretations, and that we are consistent at all competitions. With regard to point sparring, the biggest changes are in attacking with an unauthorized implement or to an unauthorized area. In the past, if it was determined by the center referee that an athlete was simply attacking with an unauthorized weapon, like an elbow, it was a half-point infraction. Similarly, if it was determined that an athlete was attacking the back, for example, regardless if contact was made, it, too, was a half-point infraction. Neither scenario will be in force for 2003 - 2004. However, if an athlete attacks with any unauthorized weapon and makes contact, or makes non-incidental contact to an unauthorized area (intentionally attacks and makes contact to the back) then it's a full-point deduction. In years past, such weapons as hammer fists were not scored, nor were they penalized. But to reiterate, this is an illegal weapon and as such, if contact is made, it's a full-point deduction. These rule changes are being made in an attempt to keep up with the changing environment of taekwondo competition. Training of officials and coaches is an important part of this process, but the athletes should also be fully aware of all the rules. To that end, I encourage all athletes to have a clear understanding of these rules, and continually review them. By now, the 2003 - 2004 rules should be uploaded on our web site. Or feel free to contact me. And best wishes to you all for the 2003 - 2004 competition year! Rick Blair serves on The AAU Taekwondo Executive Committee as the National Chief Referee and Chairman of the Technical Rules Committee. A seventh-degree black belt, he is also the Kentucky Chairman, and resides in Louisville, KY. He can be reached at rblairtkd@aol.com *Tournament & Events Schedule January 24, 2004 Central California 3rd Annual Winter Classic Kerman, CA For Information contact Paul Sullivan 559-546-3222 pauls@sullivanstkd.com January 24, 2004 Spar Wars 2004 Kennesaw, Georgia Point Sparring Only Double Elimination Registration Deadline: January, 19 2004 For Information, Contact James Henry 770 975-9757 henrytkd@bellsouth.net February 7, 2004 KY AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Louisville, KY Contact: Rick Blair Rblairtkd@aol.com March 6, 2004 2004 Georgia AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Smyrna Community Center Smyrna, GA Registration Deadline January 10, 2004 For Information, Contact James Henry 770-975-9757 henrytkd@bellsouth.net March 27, 2004 Ohio AAU TKD State Championship Thomas Worthington High School 300 W Dublin-Granville Rd., Worthington, OH For Information go to http://www.geocities.com/ohioaautkd Contact: ohioaautkd@insight.rr.com March 28, 2004 New Jersey Association Championship Morris Knolls Regional High School Rockaway, NJ For Information, Contact Kevin Balon 732-254-1214 Contact: EBTC@juno.com April 25, 2004 2004 Pacific Northwest Qualifier Spanaway, Washington For Information, Contact Ric Gordan 253-536-1146 rick.gordan@gsa.gov July 6-10, 2004 2004 AAU National Youth and Adult Taekwondo Championship Ft. Lauderdale Convention Center Registration packets will be posted on the AAU Taekwondo website shortly. August 4-7, 2004 2004 AAU Junior Olympic Games Des Moines, IA This event limited to 6-17 year old Red/Brown and Black Belts only. Registration packets will be posted on the AAU Taekwondo website shortly. *Order AAU Merchandise Online Need an AAU coach's shirt, AAU patches, pins, ties, training videos, or gup rank certificates? Now you can order them online (no more printing out order forms). Just go to http://www.aautaekwondo.org And get all the things you need! *The AAU Taekwondo Web Site Can Help You Want news, AAU Dan Certification info, tournament results, AAU merchandise, club or individual membership registration, or just the phone number of your Sport Chair? Visit: http://www.aautaekwondo.org ************************************************************** *Special Introductory Offer Exclusively for AAU Members from Summit Flexible Products. Buy 50 or more CardioFlex(tm) or CardioFlex Twin martial art mats and get tapered safety edge strips FREE. Call 888-FOR-MATS or email: summitinfo@aol.com ************************************************************** The AAU Taekwondo Newsletter is brought to you by the AAU Taekwondo Program at http://www.aautaekwondo.org --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:08:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce's Orphans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > that anyone would want to be part of an organization. At the risk of > putting too fine a point on this, and only because I identify you, Alain, > as one of the leaders in the KMA community I would suggest at least the > following items. > > a.) That the KHF be pro-active in supporting the prosecution of anyone who > has compromised the image and integrity of the organization. The message > must be clear that betraying the trust the organization provides to its > designated representatives carries a significant consequence. ... [much snipped] Where you been, Bruce? Alain has made it clear that he is no longer involved with this KHF... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: MA Expert kills two To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:10:21 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hmm, I wonder what happens if one of the guys running away turns and says > "just wait 'till I get back to my gang! You, your family and your friends > are all DEAD!" Are you then justified in giving chase and making sure this > guy doesn't make it back to his gang? Legally justified? No. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:16:14 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Shipping Fraud Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Read the post where list member was taken by an internet MA suplly dealer. Sorry that happened. For many of the items you will want to order on-line, I recommend list member Melenda's site and business. I have ordered things for myself and my students from her, and recommend her 100%. She is not going to rip anyone off, and she will work at making sure you get what you need. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:31:16 -0500 From: Brian Beach To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Property and deadly force Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain may be able to shed more light on this, but it was my understanding from a couple of lawyer friends that you can not defend property with deadly force. We have a case in the DC area where a man is being charged with manslaughter and assault for shooting a couple of young men that were trying to steal his truck, killing one of them. He was inside heard the car alarm and came out shooting. It had happened to him before. I don't necessarily agree with it but it is the law. On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:01 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Someone defending their life or property should never be judged > like this poor SOB. People always want to cry when they bite off more > than > they can chew, if you try to injure or kill and this happens to you, > accept > it, if you try to rob and encounter extreme force, accept it. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:45:06 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] All those Hyungs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charlie, I think the Kuk Mu forms is a big part of your Chung Do Kwan history. Of course if your truth does not have to replicate your instructor's CDK... FWIW, I struggled with punting the KiCho Hyungs. They do not have the history of the Pyung Ahns, or of the yudanja hyungs, but as my wife reminded me, they are the building blocks for true white blets and kids. Now, If I ran a school like say Master J. Thomas for ages 12+, I might consider eliminating the Kicho Hyungs, and teaching PA#1 to 7th Gups...hmmmm...Or even going back to just a few belts (White, Yellow, Blue, Red and Black)...hmm.... Interessting to see Hangetsu as a cho dan requirement as it is with the some Karate styles. It is usually 4th or 5th dan for TSD (shrug). Curious as to why you picked the Pal-gwe and not the TaeKyuks. I could see the TaeKyuks for USTU/AAU events, but the Pal-gwes IMHO don't really add anything new to the Pyung Ahns. Your thoughts? FWIW 14 open hand forms and a weapons forms seams a bit heavy on the cirricula side to me, but with 4 in lieu of 3 years probably works out about right. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com <> I was reading over your last post, and liked the ideas. I agree you need around ten forms to first degree. We have the 6 kuk mu ( i call them the baby forms), then 5 pyong an, then Chul Gi 1, Pal Sek, Hangetsu, and first staff form. We take about 4 years to black. Some of my tournament competitors will pick up Pal ge 2 and 7. That is a bunch, and the easy thing to do would be to drop those silly kuk mu forms. But then again people must consider what is happening in those first forms, good ol building blocks. If I was to only ever teach adults EVER again, I might would be interested in blending or breaking up our Kuk Mu forms, but even then those adults would miss out on that training opportunity at the lower level. You have to have um. Bottom line. Plus, we talk alot about application in class, and I would hate dealing with that with white orange and yellow belts ("okay new student, this is where the bad guys arm bends the unnatural way....don't tell your mom"....Just kidding guys, I don't move em that fast). After those six kuk mu forms, I think students are finally ready to get going good. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest