Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #545 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Property and deadly force (jmchie@wideopenwest.com) 2. RE: Martial Arts Expert Kills two (Michael Rowe) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_JAMA_article_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. well hyung (michael tomlinson) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hyung_stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. GM Hwang (t.metzner1) 7. MA kills two........... (Bernard Maginnity) 8. Re: GM Hwang (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: jmchie@wideopenwest.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Property and deadly force Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:19:09 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know Ray answered the question that you can't stop a guy who shouts that he is going back to his gang and they are going to kill you and your family, but I thought I would chime in a little bit of the reasonsing why stopping that person with deadly force would not be a legally justifiable option. The reason is that to defend yourself with deadly force, you have to reasonably believe you are in imminent, life-threatening danger. Therefore, because the danger is not imminent--a term which has it's own entire section of case law to define it--you are not justified in responding with deadly force. Regarding the defense of personal property, I wanted to note one important exception. My understanding is that in most or all states you are justified in using lethal force if your home is invaded, even if it turns out the guy just wanted your television. Jim McHie Jr. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:29:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Martial Arts Expert Kills two Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hmm, I wonder what happens if one of the guys running away turns and > says > "just wait 'till I get back to my gang! You, your family and your friends > are all DEAD!" Are you then justified in giving chase and making sure this > guy doesn't make it back to his gang? Ray then replies: <> Actually that depends. In some locations this man has just mad a terrorist threat to your person and family. You are justified in giving chase and detaining the individual. Of course you can not kill him, on this basis alone. Of course this is only justified if a RESONABLE person would believe that the threat was actually going to be carried out. Michael Rowe "In the middle of a difficulty lies opportunity." - Albert Einstein --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:24:52 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_JAMA_article_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....Just a heads-up regarding an article in the current issue of JAMA (Journal of Asian Martial Arts)... Ancient Military Manuals and their Relation to Modern Korean Martial Arts, by Manuel E. Adrogue. I think I can hear Bruce running to the nearest newstand right now... :)...." Nope. Got that puppy the first day it was out on the stand! The heavy breathing you hear is me pouring over the article!! There was also the equivalent article on Chinese manuals done in the DRAGON TIMES a while back before it changed its name. I'll bet back issues are still available. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:43:48 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] well hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now the expose Kenny McD shared with us about being well Hyung was my kind of post,,, dude that was funny,, I hope you used proper and inproper form with her!!!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:37:56 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hyung_stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles et al: For people who are investigating the original kata which contributed to the early TKD/TSD hyung I can report that I have found a book which purports to present Naifanchi, Passai, Kushanku, Seisan and Sanchin as originally practiced before their incarnation through the Shotokan tradition. No mention was made of the Pinan kata. Before I get peoples' hopes up about a decent pre-Funakoshi resource let me take a look at it and I will pass along all the particulars. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "t.metzner1" To: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:12:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Hwang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Maldonaldo, I appreciate that you were big enough to set the record straight concerning Grandmaster Hwang. I will see him this Saturday and tell him that you take back what you said about him. He will be doing an all day seminar in Manchester CT. To Jye Nigma, you can contact Grandmaster Hwang at (860) 649-9696. He is based in Manchester CT. Tom Metzner --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: [The_Dojang] MA kills two........... Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:17:06 +1100 From: "Bernard Maginnity" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to agree with Sean somewhat on this one. To me this topic is the same as the discussion on Gun ownership recently. In most Australian States if someone is injured on your property, you are at fault, defence or not. Tonight there is the lighting of the big Christmas tree in the middle of Sydney. The Mayor has decided that no Christmas carols will be sung just in case any non-Christians are offended by them. Yet, our Asian citizens are allowed to celebrate Chinese New Year publicly and our Arabic citizens have just recently completed Ramadan which included a march through one burb which closed the streets for the entire day. When is it right? Or am I just being sensitive? Kind regards Bernie -----Original Message----- From: Sean O'Brien [mailto:obz@nudgee.com] Subject: [The_Dojang] MA kills two........... So where is the line in the sand, when is not ok for someone to be killed becuased they wronged you ? NOTICE The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Mission Australia has implemented anti-virus software, and whilst all care is taken, it is the recipient's responsibility to ensure that any attachments are scanned for viruses prior to use. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM Hwang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Metzer thanks. Perhaps you can help me as well...I am trying to get back in touch with Ray Poole. He was my teacher, and a student at one point of GM Hwang. He ran a school "Poole's Academy" in Bethel, CT...then in Brookfield, CT then from there is where we lost contact (I moved to Ga sometime later). He has a son Raymond, 2 daughters, and a wife...all of which study TKD. If you can help I'd appreciate it. I'd like to get in touch with him to say thanks for everything. He was a great guy...I remember when we had financial problems and he still let me come to class, and I made sure we paid him what ever we may have owed him because he went out of his way to make a way for me. He was a great teacher! Jye "t.metzner1" wrote: Mr. Maldonaldo, I appreciate that you were big enough to set the record straight concerning Grandmaster Hwang. I will see him this Saturday and tell him that you take back what you said about him. He will be doing an all day seminar in Manchester CT. To Jye Nigma, you can contact Grandmaster Hwang at (860) 649-9696. He is based in Manchester CT. Tom Metzner _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest