Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 03:01:47 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #547 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Bassahai vs. Bassahee so/ Bassahee Tae (d.mchenry@juno.com) 2. Charles' Kicking Stuff (Stovall, Craig) 3. Well Hyung (Randall Sexton) 4. 2 person forms (scottm@scubadiving.com) 5. RE: thinning out the gene pool (Chris LaCava) 6. RE: Chung Bong Hyung (Rob Frankovich) 7. Re: drag 'em in (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. Re: CMK practitioners doing forms? (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 9. Kimberly on TSD hyung.... (George Peters) 10. Football not like MA... (George Peters) 11. Re: Mr. Keatley (Dewitt, Garrett) 12. Re: GM Pak (clinton snider) 13. Use of deadly force (Kim Bauman) 14. guns and self defense without a shot (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 15. Re:(2) Home Invasion (Jonathan D. Payne) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:14:39 -0600 From: d.mchenry@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Bassahai vs. Bassahee so/ Bassahee Tae Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Kim, You may want to check: http://McHenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms Although there are minor differences from school to school, these are some examples of various hyungs. Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:21:03 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Charles' Kicking Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> To tell you the truth (and here is where I differ on kicking theory with a lot of the folk that have walked the JKD path) I don't see a problem with your attachment to chambered kicks and foot positions. The torquing kickboxing kick that you refer to, I imagine you're talking about the typical Thai/Burmese boxing delivery structure with the shin as the striking surface. To tell you the truth, I'd prefer to see ALL people learn to kick like this in the beginning...assuming the motivation is to add kicking as a fighting tool, rather than as an aesthetic pursuit (forms competition, etc). Reason being is that this is the fastest way to teach someone to kick hard and fast, and training this modality builds raw power that carries over into everything else you do (punching, throwing, etc). It's all in the hips, baby. From there, you can move on to the foot as a viable weapon. As far as the chambering, yes a lot of JKD types would probably dog most "croddy" types for chambering their kicks. However, they don't dog on the Savate guys for chambering their kicks (probably because a lot of them sprinkle Savate into their curriculums...instructor preference as you say). To me, it's not about the chamber...it's about the striking surface. If you make the decision of "to hell with it, I'm just going to develop the shin as my kicking weapon", then you can just forget the chambering and go with the Thai structure (which a lot of people have done). Howevah, I know what it feels like to get hit in the gut by a roundhouse kick delivered by someone who has put in the time and effort to condition themselves to stretch those little piggies back and strike with the ball of the foot. Not to mention the appropriate ankle strength to support the transfer of force without collapsing or rotating. In essence you're just doing the same thing as the Savate guys. Instead of hitting with the tip of the shoe, you're hitting with the smallest logical striking surface on the bare foot...the ball. No, it doesn't knock your legs out from under you like a Thai kick, but it sure does sink in and tickle your spleen like a Savate kick (and drops you where you stand). So, if you were taught traditional kicking the same way as I was taught (roundhouse with ball of foot...not the top of the foot "courtesy blade"), then I wouldn't give it up. I think there's merit to it. The people who dog it are the one's who have never been hit by it. For me, they both need to be in the toolbox. Then again, you don't need my validation in any of this;) <<>> Yes, but this defeats the whole purpose. You want it to be form fitting so that it shows off your rugged animal physique. You also have to push the sleeves up to the elbow to show off the cuts and veins in your bulging forearms. And now you know why I can't wear them... Craig "That's not a beer belly...I stretched my stomach from all the deep breathing exercises" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:45:38 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Well Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is "Well Hyung" kin to "Won Hyung Tu Low?" Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:31:03 -0500 (EST) From: scottm@scubadiving.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 2 person forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i found out with some interest that there are chinese arts(like the one i practice) that have forms that require 2 people. in my case, the 2 person form is a qin na form. anyway, i was wondering if you folks know of korean arts that have 2 person forms; i haven't come across any as a tae kwon do and hap ki do student. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 13:52:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: thinning out the gene pool Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net J.R. West <> Ah, "Natural Selection." :) Take care. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year — six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:07:16 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Frankovich To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chung Bong Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Piotr, I hope that its not an old one of me. Its pretty ugly. Rob > > Message: 5 > From: "Piotr Bernat" > To: > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:50:54 +0100 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chung Bong Hyung > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > I may have an old video of these Hyungs stuck away > > > someplace.... If I find this, I shall > > send it your way... > > I would gladly exchange it for some other MA-related > material as well... > > Piotr Bernat > www.taekwondo.prv.pl > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:53:56 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: drag 'em in Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If I remember correctly this view was the source of a rather tongue-in- cheek comment that were a person to attempt to break into your house it paid to wait until they were inside to dispatch them or, failing that, to cancel their check where they were and drag the body in through the window. :-) right, b. just dont leave any skid marks ;) take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:57:30 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: CMK practitioners doing forms? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Do any of the CMK folks out there still practice/teach these forms? fwiw, i was raised CMK up to gym black, but we never learned any buddy forms. take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:22:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kimberly on TSD hyung.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Maam: If you cannot find these or someone does not know a site you can go to, I will be most happy to either attempt to e-mail you the info(if I can get one of my kids to help) or if the kids are not around I can mail you copies of the forms and a written description. Bassai so and Bassai dae are still part of the TSD MDK cirriculum. Our particular federation has gone back to the older name of Pal Che So and Pal Che Dae. I know from some folks who have come from other orgs that they don't always practice these or only do one of them.( Bassai or Pal Che mean "collection of the best") Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone ‘switch’ rules are taking effect — find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:41:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Football not like MA... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good "Tink", I personally coached my son through high school football and this past summer got him ready to play his first year in college. Football CAN be an art form if you make it one. In going back through the years to recall everything I knew to help him I discovered that the truths from TSD and Football are much the same. ALL techniques have to begin with a GOOD STANCE. POWER comes from the bottom up, not the top down, in close ALL THE POWER COMES FROM THE WAIST, there are some line techniques where you use your hands to help move someone THERE IS NO POWER UNLESS YOU KEEP YOU ELBOWS IN,two straight arms =two handed palm punch, and on and on. Since my son is an EE dan, he was amazed at the similarities. It still does not cease to amaze and astound him at how MA mirrors life. Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:29:34 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Keatley Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Keatley wrote, "Yes, I caught that distinction and hopefully it wasn't lost on others." In regards to my "major" comment about being a "geup belt holder in Kong Shin Bup." It just seems to me that I am getting tossed about an awful lot and much more often than certain Red or Brown belts when I visit the Soo (pain city) for a bit of the real training(splattering)time. I was hoping that by wearing a white belt or orange belt that I would get a little lost in the crowd there. Obviously I am incorrect. Regards to you all Master DeWitt --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "clinton snider" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM Pak Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:08:36 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you Rudy For your reply about GM Pak. I have read your artical on GM Pak. It was insightful. And if any others know or have found info. on GM Pak Please send me an e-mail, or a web site address that has info. on GM Pak. Thanks For replying ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:39 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Pak > Clinton writes: > > I was woundering if anyone had a historical or information on > > Grandmaster In > > Suk Pak. I Know that it taught many students in Sault Ste Marie, On > > Canada. I > > was woundering how that came to be. > Hello Clinton: > GM Pak taught not only in Sault Ste Marie. In Canada, he had many > followers in Elliott Lake as well as Toronto and Edmonton. The reasons > for that "coming to be" is simple, he lived in those areas and operated > schools there. Finding correct historical data on the GM is not an > easy thing, and I wish you luck. > Sincerely, > Rudy > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Kim Bauman" To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:54:22 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Use of deadly force Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just to add another voice to the din, I submit this: I have been repeatedly told that women can get away with the use of deadly force easier than men can, because a woman can feel an overwhelming sense of imminent danger before a man. Furthermore, if a woman was to launch a strike that was not at least debilitating, she risks the retaliation of a bigger muscled opponent. Long story short, if he needs killin', send your wife. (Yes, I am laughing as I type this). --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:27:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] guns and self defense without a shot Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net True story - 1975. New Years eve. On a date heading to a VFH hall in East Texas. (Where one went C&W dancing back then on Saturday nights). 10 miles in the middle of nowhere, a fellow passes me and then stops his truck in the middle of the road. Obviously toasted. I passed him and then he came up behind me and laid a pistol on the outside mirror of his pickup pointed at me. I thought about turning my truck sidewards and tossing my very large flashlight through his windshield. If I had been alone, I would have. Instead I floored it and pulled into the VFW hall parking lot, onto the sidewalk and under the canopy two feet from the doors. The constables on duty at the hall came running out. Mr. not-to-bright, followed me all the way up the sidewalk and pulled up behind me and I yelled gun. Texas has constables, I don't think most states do. But junior had pappa's 357 with him, was under age and boiled. I did not press charges as I wanted to spend new years eve on my date. They took him to jail on their own charges. Now I have a CHL to carry, but I was just a kid back then and thought the situation through before reacting.... 20 years later in Texas, I was approached late at night by several gang members (about 5 obviously hiding weapons) while on my Harley (road king) in front of Kroger's in Houston. I never got off the saddle, I simply took my 9mm out and pointed it to the ground and they changed directions. Got in the car and left. I went on the store, and never saw them again. Yes, I have had to defend myself using hapkido and it was easier than I thought, but I just wanted to share some true stories with you on using your brain as a tool.... Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Jonathan D. Payne" To: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:47:06 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:(2) Home Invasion Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>If I remember correctly this view was the source of a rather tongue-in-cheek comment that were a person to attempt to break into your house it paid to wait until they were inside to dispatch them or, failing that, to cancel their check where they were and drag the body in through the window. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce >> Although tongue in-cheek, this would be tampering with evidence, and obstruction of justice. Even if the use of deadly force was justified this would put a whole new spin on the situation. In other words DON'T DO IT! In The Great State of Texas deadly force can be used to defend one's property in the hours of darkness. This law (Penal Code) does not protect the actor from a civil suit. Is a human life worth a DVD player? Be Safe, Jon David Payne --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest