Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:00:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #554 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: value of a life (Scott D. Feldstein) 2. Chinese kwonbop/chuan-fa 2 person forms (Michael Falba) 3. GM Kim Soo (Michael Falba) 4. Re: The Last Samurai (Braeswood Martial Arts) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Shudokan?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Well,_no_wonder......?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. RE: The Last Samurai (Ali Alnasser) 8. Re: RE: The Last Samurai (Ray Terry) 9. Extreme Martial Arts (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 10. Grand Master Timmerman coming to Austin, March 27th 2004! (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 11. One of the Hacked Ones (Craig) 12. Sit Rep KHF (fwd) (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:23:20 -0700 From: "Scott D. Feldstein" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] value of a life To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Patrick: I am both relieved and mortified to learn that you weren't being serious; relieved because I'd hate to think a martial arts expert would have that kind of cavalier, testosterone-saturated attitude, and mortified because I probably insulted you by suggesting that you did. I took your comments (quoted below) at face value, rather than the "tongue-in-cheeck" way you intended. "Most importantly, I care enough about others that I would never take a TV.  So, Question: Does taking the life of someone who cares SO LITTLE about others seem soooo wrong?  Answer:  Not to me. ...and if a thief dies in an enlightened state, then have we not performed them a service?" Hopefully you can see where I was coming from. One doesn't have to be an expert in anything to know that killing someone isn't doing them some kind of cosmic favor. Nor does the crime of theft make one's life forfeit. In retrospect, I'm sure we can all agree on that. scott -- scott d. feldstein scott@scottfeldstein.net http://scottfeldstein.net/ > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [The_Dojang] value of a life > From: "Patrick L" > Date: Mon, December 08, 2003 12:31 pm > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Dear Mr. Feldstein, > > Most of what I had to say was tongue in cheek to focus the mind not on > the > value of the item, nor on the value of the thief's life, but to focus > on the > thief's disdain for the value of others. > > But in reading your relpy, it occured to me... a theif's life is only > your's > to spare - if you are justified in taking it. I don't think that is > what > you meant, is it? > > Getting in the Way, > > Patrick > > >I myself find no trouble mustering enough empathy for a television > theif to > spare his life. > > -- > scott d. feldstein< > > _________________________________________________________________ > Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year — six months > @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Michael Falba" To: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:24:33 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chinese kwonbop/chuan-fa 2 person forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Ray: I have never seen these forms described or performed on the web. Mike --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Falba" To: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:10:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Kim Soo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Ray: Please allow me to restate: The original question was how did many of Toyama Sensei's Shudokan hyung arrive in GM Kim Soo's Chayon-Ryu curriculum and this is what I was trying to explain. My Master's Master was a student of GM Kim Soo, adopted the Chayon-Ryu Curriculum and opened a Dojang in New Orleans. I am one of the many Chayon-Ryu Students/Black Belts worldwide and am by no means an expert on the entire Chayon-Ryu Lineage as I still have much to learn. I do not have the entire lineage committed to memory often have to refer to reference materials located on GM Kim Soo's website http://kimsookarate.com/ to get things straight in my own head. GM Yoon did disappear during the Korean War and I believe I stated that some of the men GM Yoon instructed went on to instruct GM Kim Soo. Trying to explain lineage in words can be confusing and perhaps I was not entirely clear but the Chayon-Ryu lineage chart located at the following link http://kimsookarate.com/intro/chart.html will explain all. There is also an excellent history page http://kimsookarate.com/intro/history.html that will help to clarify things as well. Happy holidays to you! Mike --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The Last Samurai Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:07:39 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Ray, I am actually taking myself out to see it tonight! Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: "The_Dojang" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 5:25 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] The Last Samurai > Great movie that, The Last Samurai. Not KMA, but recommended... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:55:53 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Shudokan?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mike: ".....I hope this helps to answer your questions...." Yes, and a great job at that! BTW: I did get my copy of "Kata: The Essence of Bujutu Karate" by Kenji Ushiro. I hope that anyone who is interested in delving into Okinawan traditions will find the opportunity to pick-up on this. Published in bi- lingual format (Japanese/English) the English material was overseen by none other than Stanley Pranin who some may recognize from AIKIDO JOURNAL formerly known as the AIKI-NEWS, and from his website by the same name. What made this book such a find is that rather than talk about WHAT is done (something that numbers of books can do) it goes into great detail about the MANNER in which the the kata are executed. Timing, rhythmn, application, breathing and a number of other fine points are addressed and the kata examined are the ones most of us would be interested in including Sanchin, Naifanchi, Passai, Kushan-Ku and Seisan. Even better there is quite a bit of discussion about various ways in which the kata material can be incorporated into the balance of ones' training regime. The execution of the kata is predictably very close to the Shotokan version as the tradition of the author is Shorin-ryu of Nikichi Zahas' Shindo-ryu Karate-Do. However, the author makes it very clear that after a number of years of competition, it took some adjustment to "reinvent" his Karate as a martial art under Zahas' eye. I got my copy from BUDO VIDEOS (800-451-4828) of Corona, Calif. (ISBN 4-900586-79-X). FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:01:29 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Well,_no_wonder......?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Here is the list of just the Americans listed as official KHF instructors on Hackworth's website. None of these people are listed on the official list of KHF Non-Korean Masters listed on the real KHF website. ...." I was wondering why the Nets had been inordinately quiet. As I go down the list of the disenfranchized I note that some of the more vocal contributors are found there. I have no intention whatsoever of gloating over this travesty. My hope is that these folks will visit upon the architect of this mess the same virulence they handed out to everyone else in his defense. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:44:45 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: The Last Samurai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's an interesting article by Furuya Sensei from the Aikido Center of Los Angeles (http://www.aikidocenterla.com) regarding the last Samurai movie: Prior to the show, there was a "hour-long commercial" for the movie, "The Last Samurai." Although I am always criticized as being too critical, it was as I had expected and rather make no comment here other than the fact that I won't pay admission to see it nor will I see it when it is played free on cable. On the internet, one suggested that the swordsmanship was great and there was fine attention to detail in the armour. None of the armour in the movie was authentic looking at all and did not resemble Japanese armour in the least. With all the authentic looking props and materials easily available from Japanese movie companies, I am impressed that they would go to so much trouble to create armour so innaccurately. In addition, the uniforms of the Western-style troops were all incorrect. In the program's discussion of swords and armour, not one authentic Japanese sword was used, but cheap and tawdry imitations. Finally, with as much contact and experience and exchange this country has with Japan, it is always amazing to me how little we know of the Japanese people, their culture and their history. Such a shame. Ali Alnasser www.ushankido.org [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: The Last Samurai To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:58:09 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Here's an interesting article by Furuya Sensei from the Aikido Center of > Los Angeles (http://www.aikidocenterla.com) regarding the last Samurai > movie: Interestingly (?) one of the co-stars of that film (Ken Watanabe) is listed as a 5th Dan in Iaido and Aikido. Rev. Furuya is a 6th Dan in both. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:08:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Extreme Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can't believe nobody has commented on the Discovery Channel's program "Extreme Martial Arts" which aired 2 weekends ago. Did anyone else catch it? What is everyone's overall opinion of it? I'm not sure what to think about the point that was made about a martial artist's power is generated from the ground. Something about how Ki is derived from the ground, up through the martial artist's legs, up through his torso, down his arm, and into the punch. There was not one word about hip rotation in the techniques, or at least I did not catch it... I've always been taught that Ki was generated in your midsection below the navel and that proper hip rotation is where true power comes from. Maybe someone out there recorded it and watched it again and picked up on something I didn't..?? The breaking demonstrations were awesome though. Never seen anyone break concrete in an upward motion before as with an elbow. How much truth was behind the show and how much was Hollywood hype? Respectfully, James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV http://www.gtkda.com Member: United States Korean Martial Arts Federation (USKMAF) --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:09:11 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grand Master Timmerman coming to Austin, March 27th 2004! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you still want more abuse after the three day mat fest in Jackson, please feel free to come down to Austin. We'll be hosting a seminar with Grand Master Timmerman. I'll follow up with location details and specific times in a bit, but I wanted to let everyone know so that you can mark you calendars; if you sufficiently recover from Jackson! Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Tae Kwon Do www.natkd.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:15:39 -0800 (PST) From: Craig To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] One of the Hacked Ones Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I too was fooled by RH and his act of deceivement with all that were associated with him. I was in the Taekwondo Times as the Tennessee State rep for the National Hapkido Association the U.S. arm of the KHF as RH called it; as we know this was another play to get money. As of today I resign that position but don't know why because I never got anything in writing or a certificate showing this.He has my money also and I will be contacting him about it. But for here on out Myself, my school, and my student are and will not have any dealings with this man if that is what he calls himself I call him a Devil in disguise. Sometimes we don't see what is right in front of our face for all the flowers. I had a bad feeling when I first started receiving the Dojang Digest well I should have listened. I know Master West and he is highly respected by me and again should have listened to our senior ranks instead of thinking the best of everyone. Again Thanks and God Bless. Strengh through Christ, Craig Hamm --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:49:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sit Rep KHF (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KHF et al report. Forwarding from Master Julian Lim... Ray ================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:00:00 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Lim Subject: Sit Rep KHF Dear Gentlemen, I have been asked by most of you for input re the KHF and it's direction, especially on certain sensitive issues. As these are seen as crucial by me, I have come out of stealth mode and given feedback. Ray, you may pass this data onwards in any form you see fit. Members may also want to post this to other forums. I have broken down my feedback into different categories, and have cc'd this back to KHF HQ so that everyone is in the loop. Please understand that I am trying to be as neutral as possible. Macro 1) The KHF is aware of several serious short comings re the present International promotions and PR system. However, please be aware that the majority of Korean Masters do not care much about their personal Dan rank (only their ability and knowledge) nor what happens outside Korea. 2) Some steps are being taken immediately to achieve better transparency, eg listing of the Foreign Masters, Nat Reps, Events, etc. ALL of these actions will be listed on the official web site, probably by end this year. Please understand that there are precious few human assets to action this, both at the Management level and the Operational level. Basically we have Master Bae and John Johnson. Both are highly overworked, under appreciated, and have to work within the command structure. Patience and understanding is required. 3) Due to complaints about rapid and sometimes questionable standards re Dan applications, the KHF is seriously tightening up on it's testing standards and procedures. All applicants need to substantiate their history of KMA study, especially HKD, along with copies of all previous HKD Dan certs. Examiners are being told to award rank with prudence. 4) All Master applicants (currently 4th Dan, but could be raised to 5th Dan in the future) MUST attend the Masters Seminar. This is held every April. If you cannot get on the Mat, you need a very good excuse (a chit from your mama WILL NOT cut it). If you have a medical problem, inform them, and them will make the appropriate allowances; BUT.... you still have to get on the mat (did I say that earlier?). Also technical skill is not even half the story; you WILL be assessed on knowledge, linage and character. Hooah! 5) In order to minimize confusion, the KHF is in the process of fine tuning it's certificates. For example, all future certs will state clearly if they are only recognizing a specific dojang or a Kwan. Again, attending the Masters Seminar does NOT mean that you are recognized as one until you have the appropriate papers (eg they do allow 3rd Dans to attend sometimes, so just because one is in the commemorative picture DOES not mean that one has graduated as such). 6) If you have an Event that you wish the KHF to sanction write in and they will review it. If positive, they will list it on their Events section. And yes, they will be informing all individuals who are operating KHF clone web sites to cease asap. 7) Re the fake certs from Hackworth; please do not seek refunds from the KHF. Someone should petition the US BBB and other like minded organizations to warn others about him, and perhaps start a class action to seek FULL refund re the TKD, TSD and HKD paper rubbish he has issued. Personal 1) We were treated very warmly and with respect during our stay. As long as you can produce on the mat and have the right knowledge and character, you'll be fine. 2) The KHF has officially recognized me as KJN of HKD SongMooKwan. They have re-opened this Kwan again. Master Anthony Low was approved for his 6th Dan and given KJN status. Hooah! 3) I have been appointed the Nat Rep for Malaysia. Master Anthony will be appointed Nat Rep for Singapore within the next 2 weeks. There is only one other Nat Rep world wide, ie France. The school in England (DukMoo) is aapparently only recognized as an official dojang, and not anything else. Please, do not send and scuds my way, you can confirm this with the KHF direct. 4) I have given my personal opinion re US and Hackworth to the KHF. As far as US Rep is concerned, I have recommended GM Hal Walden for the post. Again, due to the size and complexities of the US, it may be necessary to appoint more than one Nat Rep. Due to the previous issues, the KHF is moving VERY carefully on this one (world wide). 5) The KHF has given me permission to assess any persons who have bogus (read fake, re Hackworth) KHF papers and recommend them for an appropriate Dan during my seminars. I shall be visiting the USA in March 2004 (LA around the 24th, then Denver around the 26th). Those interested can contact Master Maldonado for the LA session. The Denver session organizer will be confirmed by January. We will also be in the SF area around the 5th to 7th April; if anyone wants to put something together, please feel free to drop me a line. I should be traveling with Master Anthony Low, and well as GM Tan, Sar Bee, who has training extensively with many Masters in Korea during the 60's and early 70's, including GGM Choi and Ji. We will also be planning a UK (London) and Spain (Madrid) trip sometime mid 2004. Please contact Master Adrian for more details 0044-7710930939. 6) Many thanks to the KHF Masters who were there for us: GM Bae, Soon Book, GM Kim, Nam Je (with his wonderful 35 year old dojang, one of the oldest in Korea); GM Chae, In Kil (Head Instructor, Seoul Police, for the weapons training at the main Police Dojang); Master Choi, Suk Hwan for his patience and superb technical knowledge. Also special thanks to President Oh, Se Lim for his kind welcome and for introducing us at the Masters Congress. An additional thank you to SaBumNim John Johnson for his kind time and invaluable company. 7) Special thanks to LTC Kip McCormick, the International Political-Military Affairs Officer, UN Command Korea, for your gracious hospitality and courtesy for taking two retired jumpers on a personal tour of the DMZ, especially the Bridge of No Return (closed to non-military personnel). I hope that you will progress positively in your KMA training, and know that you will be positively received by the KHF. Hooah! 8) I have great faith in the KHF (especially its many fine gentlemen Masters), and believe they will overcome their current predicament brought upon them by a member gone bad (remember, he is only one in many thousands). We need to rally around them, and encourage (not demand, yes?) them to take firm but positive steps. Perhaps a disciplinary show cause, them suspension, and finally expulsion if found guilty and unsalvageable. Of course, this is only my personal opinion, ok? 9) Given the current ruckus about fake certification and false claims, perhaps all Masters should take the lead to display our papers. This is should not be seen as an ego trip, just prudent verification. As usual, my papers will be posted on my site by end this month (www.jlim.net). Others For those of you enquiring about the KiDoHae: 1) They are still in operation, but in "hermit" mode. 2) They are not receptive to overseas enquiries at this time. 3) They will only be re-opening their doors in 2006 at the earliest. 4) Those wishing recognition from them must prove KDH history and linage. They are also following Dan skip rules and testing standards very strictly. 5) As a rule (with very few exceptions) they will not recognize WKF papers. One needs to be assessed, either directly, or via a recognized Master. 6) For the further enquiries re the US, please contact GM JR West or GM He-Young Kimm; for Canada, try GM Rudy Timmerman. 7) Again, if I can be of any small assistance, one can see me during our 2004 March US or European visit. 8) I am a confirmed 8th Dan and KJN HKD SMK by the KDH (not WKF) and have been a member since 1990. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest