Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #556 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Extreme Martial Arts (Stovall, Craig) 2. pro-rassler ? (Ray Terry) 3. US KHF Rep (Jesse Segovia) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Roundhouse_Stuff?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Re: Official KHF name list (Dewitt, Garrett) 6. Re: US KHF Rep (Ray Terry) 7. KHF USA Masters (FirstPe315@aol.com) 8. Re: Boxing Defenses (Ray Terry) 9. Thoughts on KHF situation (ABurrese@aol.com) 10. Re: Frauds (foxdragon@cuttingedge.net) 11. Re: Re: Frauds (Ray Terry) 12. roundhouse kick (Rudy Timmerman) 13. Re: R. Timmerman seminar schedule (Jeremy Anderson) 14. Extreme Martial Arts (Eddie Urbistondo) 15. Re: Extreme Martial Arts (Jeremy Anderson) 16. Re:George on GM Byrne (Bernard Redfield) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:54:34 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Extreme Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Oy vey!!! Yes...I saw it. I turned it off after about 45 minutes because it turned out to be exactly what I expected...Hollywood Chop Sockey style martial arts. I appreciate what these tournament oriented guys do from a purely athletic standpoint...but it's just not my cup of tea when it comes to martial arts. The final straw for me was the muscular Asian guy (the one with no hair or eyebrows) who was demonstrating the spinning spikes. I think he set an all-time poser world record when he started talking about how he goes crazy when he sees blood when he fights with the spinning spikes. Yeah, like he goes around fighting death matches with the spinning spikes...whatever. I guess if you're into 360 jump kicks, lots of screaming, lots of posing...yeah, it was a little slice of heaven in that case. Didn't see much real martial arts, and I certainly didn't learn anything about human biomechanics. I gave it two spikes down (bloody spikes). Craig "No Tolerance for BS Anymore" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:56:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] pro-rassler ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > tournament. May I suggest his book on breaking,THE ART OF BREAKING by Master > Richard Byrne? Is this the same fellow that was a professional wrestler? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:01:14 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jesse Segovia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] US KHF Rep Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry quoted: > As far > as US Rep is concerned, I have recommended GM Hal Walden for the post. Hal Walden? Does he mean Hal Whalen? Jesse --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:07:40 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Roundhouse_Stuff?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: Long before my Hapkido career I studied Karate and had developed a respectable RH kick using the ball of my foot. It was executed with a high chamber of the knee and was a sound part of my SD catalog. Beginning about 45 I noticed increasing tenderness and then pain when kicking and was diagnosed with arthritic spurs up behind the ball of each foot. As a result I have had to adjust a few things in my Hapkido career as well as retrain to use the instep RH for SD. Now, I didn't have any indication that this condition would develop when I was young and crazy, but I sure have it now! Has anyone else run into something comparable in their careers? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:25:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Official KHF name list Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Ray Terry wrote: "Here is the list of just the Americans listed as official KHF instructors on Hackworth's website. None of these people are listed on the official list of KHF Non-Korean Masters listed on the real KHF website. " Good morning Master Terry. I have seen this list for a few years now. My thoughts: I am presently a proud orange belt geup rank holder in Kong Shin Bup(TM),trained as a personal student of Grandmaster Rudy Timmerman. Although Saja Nim and Mr. Lorne Keatley very much enjoy tossing this torso of mine about at every opportunity, the honesty, dignity and true friendships which have manifested since being accepted into the NKMAA and an official Kong Shin Bup(TM) geup student is priceless. Through all of the smiles, sweat, "official mat beatings,"(Lorne SBN/Mr. Fisher) and winter swimming in Lake Huron, there has NOT been one incident (not one) of fake, fraud, forgery or outright deceitfulness perpetrated on me or my students. My name on some Hapkido website means little or nothing if I cannot demonstrate the technical Hapkido skills on the mat or elsewhere, exactly where the "true" Hapkido players thrive. Grandmaster Timmerman once told me, "Years ago, my master was meeting black belt masters at a seminar." "One of the masters step forward and said, I am master such and such." "My master told this master, "I don't need to be told this, I know a master when they walk in the door!" Grandmaster Timmerman, Grandmaster J.R. West and Master Ray Terry are such men. Wannabes out there never once fooled any of them. Respectfully Submitted Master Garrett DeWitt Korean Chung Do Kwan NKMAA Member --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] US KHF Rep To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:31:07 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > As far > > as US Rep is concerned, I have recommended GM Hal Walden for the post. > > Hal Walden? Does he mean Hal Whalen? Yes, I suspect so. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:07:55 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF USA Masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just in fairness. There is a man mentioned on that list with the name of Dan Piller. Dan would never care about this and none of you know him but he is a 1st Dan in KHF and is not a part of that organization for quite some time. He is a friend and would never equate himself to any Hapkido instructor status with KHF. I know this because he is a member of the WHA along with myself and a good friend as well as a TKD Master and a great Yudo man. Therefore, I can only assume that Mr. Hackworth has some people on there claiming certain things that THEY are unaware of. Perhaps this benefits Mr. Hackworth in some way, I don't know. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Boxing Defenses To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:28:49 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... that Ji Han Jae developed > certain defenses against the quick boxing strikes after watching boxers train > in a gym next to his school. > > Can someone please explain to me what types of techniques or strategy he > teaches against a boxer's punches? Primarily in the "steps" (side stepping, stepping in or out), angling off, soft blocks, deflections, staying outside until you can enter more safely, etc. Things that work well against quick boxing style punches as well as against over committed linear punches such as a basic Karate-style reverse punch. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:54:23 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Thoughts on KHF situation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have followed much of the happenings with the KHF and Richard Hackworth for some time now. It saddens me to see such activities within our martial art community, especially within the art of Hapkido, my personal favorite of the traditional arts, and the art that I teach. I’m equally saddened that this happened within an organization I have belonged to and hold dan rank from. However, I am glad that the truth is being told, and while there may be variations of “truth” as told be different individuals, there are just too many people that have been harmed by one person to believe that it is not arising out of that individual’s actions and behaviors. While personally never cheated by this person, I have experienced first hand actions and behaviors that were not honorable, and actually quite contrary to how I believe a martial artist, how I believe a warrior, should behave and conduct themselves. I am by no means the epitome of how a warrior should act and behave, for I like most have faults as well. In my dealings with the above individual I have not always acted the way I wish I would have. I too have gotten angry over things he has said to me and about me, as well as things he has said about others. I have let this individual consume more of my time that he is worth, especially when some of this consumed time was not in productive pursuits, but rather calling him in anger to set the record straight, or to discuss with others his actions. However, maybe some of these discussions led to the truth being found out and the stopping of the fraud and cheating that apparently has been going on with many people being harmed. I sincerely hope that those cheated and harmed will be made whole, and that no one else will succumb to these falsehoods again. If some of what I have done has assisted in righting these wrongs, I am grateful, because I sincerely believe that our purpose should be to help others and to be a positive force while we are here on this planet. Idealistic? Maybe, but what is wrong with that? It is something I strive for, and sometimes have to remind myself about. I also try and look at the positive lessons and things that can be gained by this entire situation. One is that we can see what dishonesty and lack of integrity can bring. It can make each of us look at what we do, how we behave, what we say, and ensure that we each act in accordance with our own guiding principles. It has also been an opportunity for some people to meet and support others, hopefully to develop into greater relationships and improve our martial art community as a whole. I believe the KHF will become a stronger organization after having to deal with this difficulty. Therefore, I encourage everyone to look at themselves and learn from this entire ordeal. I encourage everyone to look toward righting the wrongs that have been done, and ensuring that they do not happen again. I encourage everyone to look toward supporting the honest efforts of brother and sister martial artists, regardless of organizational affiliations and the politics that often go with them. I encourage everyone to look at the oaths and tenants that are taught within the various arts we practice and not just read them or recite them, but to act on them and live them. I have a few more things to address regarding this, but this is enough for now. I really hope people will use this time to reflect on those areas mentioned in the last paragraph and use this time to grow and to help others in the arts. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:04:08 -0600 From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Frauds Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I looked at the Summary, but don't see Hackworth's name mentioned. What does this have to do with him? Donna --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Frauds To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:14:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I looked at the Summary, but don't see Hackworth's name mentioned. What > does this have to do with him? Nothing... It was provided as an example of one way to deal with people that are not what they claim to be. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:20:06 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] roundhouse kick Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George writes: > I used to feel the same way until I > saw a demonstration by Master Richard Byrne several years ago in which > he > broke 13 boards with no spacers employing an instep roundhouse kick. No > fuss, no muss, no cheap trick, just a heck of a break. Hello George. I believe most of us agree heavy hitting/breaking can be done, I for one am just saying at what future cost. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:02:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] R. Timmerman seminar schedule To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the invite. How would one go about getting more information on a specific seminar? I am interested in the one in Brainerd, MN. Jeremy Anderson. --- Rudy Timmerman wrote: > Greetings everyone: > I invite all DD members to attend any of the below scheduled seminars. > Other seminars are pending, and I'll list them as they are confirmed. > Sincerely, > Rudy W. Timmerman, Chief Master > National Korean Martial Arts Association > > March 6-7 Guest Instructor at Master JR West's 20th annual. > March 26-28 Austin, TX. Master Jason Thomas > June 18-20 Toledo, OH area, Master John Orndorff > August 13-15 Sault Ste Marie, ON Canada. R. Timmerman > September 3-5 Brainerd, MN Master Garrett DeWitt > October15-17 Houston, TX. KSN Kat Kelly > Nov. 12-14 Sault Ste Marie, ON Canada. R. Timmerman > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:49:48 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Extreme Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think the "Extreme Martial Arts" should be called Choreographed Acrobatics Show. I saw NO martial arts content in it. Its the Chinese Wushu version for the United States except in Wushu there are set empty hand forms and weapon forms. In extreme martial arts, its an individuals imagination. The point sparring, in my opinion, was pathetic. They have no knowledge of footwork and combinations. It seems the long arms/legs will win. I like the fact that they called themselves five or six times World Champion when in fact they just won five or six big tournaments that were aired on ESPN. I think for performance/show is okay, but don't call it Martial Arts. Just my opinion. Eddie Urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:30:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Extreme Martial Arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I didn't catch the entire show, so I'm wondering if they ever said what these people were world champions *in*? And what exactly is "*extreme* martial arts"? Jeremy Anderson. --- Eddie Urbistondo wrote: > I think the "Extreme Martial Arts" should be called Choreographed > Acrobatics > Show. I saw NO martial arts content in it. Its the Chinese Wushu > version for > the United States except in Wushu there are set empty hand forms and > weapon > forms. In extreme martial arts, its an individuals imagination. The > point > sparring, in my opinion, was pathetic. They have no knowledge of > footwork and > combinations. It seems the long arms/legs will win. I like the fact > that > they called themselves five or six times World Champion when in fact > they just > won five or six big tournaments that were aired on ESPN. I think for > performance/show is okay, but don't call it Martial Arts. Just my > opinion. > Eddie Urbistondo > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:22:32 -0500 From: Bernard Redfield To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:George on GM Byrne Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George, I wonder if you are confusing his elbow break with the roundhouse kick. I know he does the instep kick,I have met Grand Master Byrne many times, and have no doubt he could do the kick,(the man is huge) but I think the elbow break is 13 or 14 boards no spacers, have you seen him do the ten penny nail thru the board using his forehead?? I didn't even like the sound it made, let alone trying it myself, ouch! I have the book The Complete Art of Breaking, it is very informative, If you are on the East Coast, maybe we have been at the same events?? here is the link for those interested http://www.grandmasterbyrne.com/ Respects, Bernard Redfield --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest