Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:00:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #557 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. gymkata (michael tomlinson) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Extreme_Martial_Arts?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. Teacher-Student relationship -VS- Organizational membership (Chosondo@aol.com) 4. Extreme Martial Arts (Burdick, Dakin R) 5. Re: KHF lists (ABurrese@aol.com) 6. XMA reply (J T) 7. heavyweight uniform (Pat Montini) 8. Re: heavyweight uniform (Braeswood Martial Arts) 9. Re: extreme/samurai (Michael Whalen) 10. Re: claiming the unawares (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 11. Re: what is XMA? (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 12. Re: XMA reply (Jeremy Anderson) 13. NIPOGA (Oludipe O. Tolulope) 14. Paying the price (Rudy Timmerman) 15. Time to walk the talk (Rudy Timmerman) 16. Brainerd seminar (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:06:58 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] gymkata Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That ridiculous extreme martial arts show reminded me of that old movie called gymkata,, that was basically what it was,, gymnastics mixed with forms... I was gonna watch the whole thing but after about 10 minutes I decided it would be more fun taking an icepick and gouging it in my eyes and ears.... those guys were awesome gymnasts but IMO not martial artists... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone ‘switch’ rules are taking effect — find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:56:21 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Extreme_Martial_Arts?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the parlance of media hype, apparently "extreme" is a label applied to those events which reinforce the worst possible stereotypes regarding an activity. However, it does raise a rather interesting question: Where are the Korean Martial Arts in the media? Quite recently, with the release of THE LAST SAMURAI there has been an airing of THE SAMURAI, a light-weight examination of the Samurai culture in Japan. There have also been any number of other programs examining Japanese culture down through the ages. Over in China, there have been a number of series on Chinese culture down through the ages, much press regarding the building of the Three Gorges Dam and the revamping of the Shaolin Temple and, of course, the touring "monks". I am trying to remember if I have ever seen a series on "Korea down through the ages," or a "day in the life" examination of training at the Kukkiwon, or a bio on a typical MA school in Korea, and so forth. If noone else, I would have thought that the Korean Ministry of Culture would be on top of this. Anyone? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:13:46 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Teacher-Student relationship -VS- Organizational membership Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ladies and Gentlemen, while I understand the need to be recognized and validated, Korea based organizations seem to supercede and overshadow the efforts of those teachers who conduct themselves with moral certitude and dedication to their art. Korea based organizations are proliferating at an alarming rate. This is probably because they feel that "Han Min Jok (all things Korean) really matter to us (Westerners). We are giving them the power they now have. Keep in mind that a basic function of a martial arts organization is to support the instructor and his/her students, not the the way around. What do you guys think would happen if we all withdraw our support from Korea based organizations? Charity begins at home. We now have some fine individuals who have endured past and current system to establish themselves as martial arts leaders right here in the U.S. and Canada. Why aren't we giving them more support? I see them just as legitimate as any Korea based organization. Now, don't get me wrong, I belong to Korea Kido Hae, World Kido Federation and Han Min Jok Hapkido Hyup Hwe. However, my association with these organization has more to do with my relationship with GM Seo, In Sun. I consider him my teacher as well. So where he goes, I go... As usual, thank you for indulging me. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster ICF --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:28:49 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Extreme Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James Morgan wrote: I can't believe nobody has commented on the Discovery Channel's program "Extreme Martial Arts" which aired 2 weekends ago. Did anyone else catch it? What is everyone's overall opinion of it? I'm not sure what to think about the point that was made about a martial artist's power is generated from the ground. Something about how Ki is derived from the ground, up through the martial artist's legs, up through his torso, down his arm, and into the punch. There was not one word about hip rotation in the techniques, or at least I did not catch it... I've always been taught that Ki was generated in your midsection below the navel and that proper hip rotation is where true power comes from. Maybe someone out there recorded it and watched it again and picked up on something I didn't..?? The breaking demonstrations were awesome though. Never seen anyone break concrete in an upward motion before as with an elbow. How much truth was behind the show and how much was Hollywood hype? My reply: I enjoyed the show (hey, it was free!) but was also happy I had taped it and could watch it as a fast-forward special. It was just another kicky-punchy sport karate promo. It was great to see Fumio Demura still in action, but I'm not a fan of the screaming karate school, and that idiot who talked about how his weapon went into a human body easier when it was coated with blood made us all look like bloodthirsty loons. I laughed out loud when the young competitor demonstrated the application of his form (double hammerfist to the groins of two opponents!); wasn't he supposed to be working with Demura-sensei on this traditional bunkai? It was interesting to see the cross pattern that the two fighters used to set up their demos. The cross pattern makes it easy for them to keep the demonstration working, but now that I know about it, it will of course look artificial to me! (anybody else seen Jackie Chan's "My Stunts"? good stuff!) The animation was cool but not revealing. It remained much more animation than science, and that is probably because the performers were not out to hurt each other but rather just put on a demo. When the kotegaeshi (or fan lock, or wrist twist, or 3/4 turn jointlock, or whatever you want to call it) was performed, the receiver just played it up rather than showing how it would be received. Generating power from the ground is nothing new. The legs are big muscles and generate a lot of power. Taijiquan teaches this quite well. Karate tends to emphasize hip rotation alone, which of course is also useful. The breaking demonstrations were fun, but breaking really isn't that important. You're right though, those upward breaks looked new to me too. Major Lessons Learned: 1. Screaming is cool. 2. Kung-fu is better than karate. 3. Joint locks are even better than kung-fu. 4. Weapons coated with blood are even better than joint locks. 5. If you're 25, you are over the hill. Final analysis: It was free so I enjoyed watching it, but it didn't do any favors for the martial arts. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:57:20 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KHF lists Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There were questions regarding the list that the KHF put out, and the names on Mr. Hackworth's site. I would like to clarify a couple things. The list put out by the KHF was of 4th dans and above. The names listed on Hackworth's site were not necessarily 4th dan and above, and Hackworth never said they were. While everyone here knows I do not like the man for my personal reasons, the truth is that he listed people, but did not say they were all 4th dans and above, and he did not necessarily give the rank to everyone listed on his site. So one cannot take the names from his site and say everyone there was a victim of fraud because they are not listed on the KHF site. How do I know this? Because I was listed on Hackworth's site!!! It took me a number of e-mails and phone calls to get my name removed from this site. I did so for personal reasons in that I did not want my name affiliated with him in any way after the things he said to me and about me. Why was my name there? Because Hackworth knew that I have dan rank from the KHF and having my name there gave him a longer list and having someone there who has a book and videos out with a major MA publisher couldn't hurt either. What dan rank do I have? 2nd from KHF. I hope to get 3rd dan in 2004. (but from the new organization my instructor in Korea is now with) I have always let people know this, and have never claimed anything higher. Hackworth knew this as well. (funny, he wants my name on his site, but then insults me...) But then again, a dan certificate does not necessarily illustrate someone's knowledge, teaching ability or character. I went a lot of years learning and training without rank, and as we see, some with rank certificates are not who we want teaching and representing martial arts. I'll let my writing, videos, seminars and teaching speak for me, along with how I strive to ensure all my actions are with honor. The reviews of my book, videos, and seminars are proof I am doing something right, and the honorable people I call friends, and who call me a friend are proof of the honor. Anyway, I did want to clarify any misconceptions regarding the KHF list of names and the names listed on Richard Hackworth's site. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:28:30 -0800 (PST) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] XMA reply Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I think the "Extreme Martial Arts" should be called Choreographed Acrobatics Show. I saw NO martial arts content in it. Its the Chinese Wushu version for the United States except in Wushu there are set empty hand forms and weapon forms. In extreme martial arts, its an individuals imagination." Eddie, Heaven forbid if talented young athletes step out on their own and create their own form. The should fall into the realm of lemmings and just do the forms that are provided for them, is that how I understand you statement to say? I think what many people are getting caught up in is the name that has been given to these forms "Extreme Martial Arts" Understand that the name is nothing more than a marketing tool mostly aimed at the youth, like extreme sports in general are. What if they just called it Extreme Open Forms? Would you be as upset? "The point sparring, in my opinion, was pathetic. They have no knowledge of footwork and combinations. It seems the long arms/legs will win." Apparently you have no idea about sport karate then. The tallest doesn't always win. And to snap judge off of one match that they show is a wrong thing to do. If that was the case then most of the TKD matches I have seen are nothing but some people throwing their legs out hoping to hit something. "I like the fact that they called themselves five or six times World Champion when in fact they just won five or six big tournaments that were aired on ESPN." Again, you are speaking out of ignorance. The gentleman have traveled overseas to compete as well as competed against other nations right here in the sport karate tournaments. Their titles are well earned. We call our baseball teams World Series champions and yet they never compete against anyone outside of our nation accept in an "exhibition" match. "I think for performance/show is okay, but don't call it Martial Arts." It is martial arts, just not your definition of martial arts. For the record those people also train in traditional forms and weapons are are some of the top competitiors in that are as well. "I didn't catch the entire show, so I'm wondering if they ever said what these people were world champions *in*? And what exactly is "*extreme* martial arts"? Jeremy, Matt Mullins and Mike Chat are world champions in the sport karate. They were highly ranked in The NASKA, NBL, SES, AKA and a couple other circuits. Extreme Martial Arts is nothing more than a relabeling of what used to be known as open forms. It is more of a marketing ploy to attract the younger consumers. I hope this helps. With respect, Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:56:14 -0500 From: Pat Montini Organization: MGA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] heavyweight uniform Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear friends, Does anyone have any suggestions for softening a newly purchased heavyweight uniform? Would greatly appreciate it. Thank you Pat [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of pizzadp.vcf] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] heavyweight uniform Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:17:35 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wash in cold water with the cute little bear "snuggles" let hang dry or light fluff dry. Beware as you will attract sniffers to your new pretty smelling dobok and you will be cuddly soft :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Montini" To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:56 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] heavyweight uniform > Dear friends, > Does anyone have any suggestions for softening a newly purchased > heavyweight uniform? Would greatly appreciate it. Thank you > Pat --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:45:30 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: extreme/samurai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Saw the extreme show. Disappointing. Parts resembled a trailer for "Romeo must Die". However, I did see (on TDC) a special on the samurai. Was interesting but would like to ask the more knowledgeable (sp?) members on the list as to its accuracy. michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:05:53 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: claiming the unawares Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Therefore, I can only assume that Mr. Hackworth has some people on there claiming certain things that THEY are unaware of.  Perhaps this benefits Mr. Hackworth in some way, I don't know." for example, i know he had alain listed on his website for the longest time. finally, alain got hack to remove him after much fuss. kinda funny how hack tries to claim a person and then shits all over them, takes personal pot shots and under the belt blows. although we practise the bastardized taekwondo school hapkido in my dojang, it still saddens me to see all of this in the hkd community. i can say one thing good about all the crud going on in both the hkd and tkd communities right now: at least its all out there in the open now and hopefully some closets will get cleaned. thanks to everyone who worked hard to take out the trash. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:15:19 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: what is XMA? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net XMA, i believe, is the creation of mike chataranabut. acrobatic martial arts. flashy for the sport circuit. i've watched parts of it as i have time. i cant imagine any swordsman in the world seriously throwing his katana in the air and catching it on the way down. if he was actually fighting someone, he'd be cubed and diced by the time he caught it. sport karate is just that. sport karate. point sparring that i've seen at NASKA tournies is just as someone else mentioned: long arms and legs are great. i truly hate to see a guy reach out his arm behind him and tap the other guy and then dance around as a point is awarded for the contact. sad. the athletic skills of these guys was awesome. their knowledge of how to orient a weapon around their spinning, jumping, flipping bodies was truly amazing to watch. i certainly couldnt do it. at least not yet...lol. the graphic animations were awesome. i truly enjoyed those. although its nice to have martial arts aired internationally, i wish they'd done something in addition to sport. perhaps i'm limited to watching only parts of the show so far. glad to hear other views. it certainly spawned a lotta questions from my students, though...lol. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] XMA reply To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --- J T wrote: > Matt Mullins and Mike Chat are world champions in the > sport karate. They were highly ranked in The NASKA, > NBL, SES, AKA and a couple other circuits. Extreme > Martial Arts is nothing more than a relabeling of what > used to be known as open forms. It is more of a > marketing ploy to attract the younger consumers. I > hope this helps. Yes, that helps. The other question I had was, how much science was really involved with the show? I caught the bit about the kick generating 2000+ lbs of pressure. Was there any other science/measurements involved? The documentary, based on the pieces I caught, looked more to be about these two martial artists as well as forms and choreographed fight scenes interrupted by CGI. The dancing skeletons were nice, but as a non-medical person, the moving bones taught me nothing about the biomechanics of the motions. Jeremy Anderson. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:03:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Oludipe O. Tolulope" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] NIPOGA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwon, News of the Nigeria Politechnic Games will be relayed as soon. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:41:02 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Paying the price Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > Beginning > about 45 I noticed increasing tenderness and then pain when kicking and > was diagnosed with arthritic spurs up behind the ball of each foot. As > a > result I have had to adjust a few things in my Hapkido career as well > as > retrain to use the instep RH for SD. Now, I didn't have any indication > that this condition would develop when I was young and crazy, but I > sure > have it now! Hello Bruce: This is precisely what I was referring to in this thread. When I was younger, I used to "condition" my hands for breaking (and looking cool:). It did not take long before I realized I was placing my job as a cabinet maker in jeopardy by ruining my hands for more useful stuff. I stopped, had some shots in the knuckles to ease things up a bit, and they slowly returned to near normal. I did my last thumb and spear finger break at my 20th anniversary Can-Am tournament and Masters demo about a dozen years ago, and now I spend more time looking into "soft" breaking. You say you had a problem with a part of the anatomy that on a daily basis is walked on, jumped on, and otherwise conditioned through regular use. Indeed, that part of the anatomy was pretty much designed for that purpose. You can imagine what will happen with the instep over time:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:50:14 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Time to walk the talk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain writes: > I encourage everyone to look toward supporting the honest efforts of > brother and sister martial artists, regardless of organizational > affiliations and the politics that often go with them. I encourage > everyone to look at the oaths and tenants that are taught within the > various arts we practice and not just read them or recite them, but to > act on them and live them. Hello Alain: Great post my friend. One of the greatest things I have personally received from the arts is the brotherhood and Jung Shin spirit other martial artists gave to me so freely. Giving some back to the best of our ability is the natural thing to do. Hopefully we can now focus on the positive, and leave this negative garbage where it belongs... in the gutter. Master DeWitt: Thank you Sir! Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:59:31 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Brainerd seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy writes: > Thank you for the invite. How would one go about getting more > information > on a specific seminar? I am interested in the one in Brainerd, MN. Hello Jeremy: Thank you for the interest in our seminar in Brainerd, MN. The host of the seminar, Master DeWitt, reads this forum, and I am sure he will contact you direct. If he misses this post, please contact me Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest