Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:03:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #562 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. In response to those answering my previous email (John Johnson) 2. XMA/Reality - long post (tntcombatives@comcast.net) 3. Confusiious on rank advancement.... (George Peters) 4. RE: Vic Cushing (Dr. Daryl Covington) 5. New School (Vincent DeSalvo) 6. Warning to Hapkidoin (J.R. West) 7. Speaking of Oranizations (J.R. West) 8. circus flips (Chris Hamilton) 9. Mr. Cushings (FirstPe315@aol.com) 10. Re: The Last Samurai (Ali Alnasser) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 03:01:25 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] In response to those answering my previous email Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To those who responded to my previous email: Let me make it completely clear that I do not support or defend the individual in question. In fact, I have done everything possible to inform the KHF of the actions he has taken. I have done this since I joined the KHF IT Team earlier this year. Before summer of this year, by the request of Master Bae, Song-book, the KHF director, I asked the members of this digest to share their preferences for the English web site and their experiences with this person. The result was two or three email about the web site, two emails supporting him, and over a hundred pages of information regarding his negative conduct. All of which I forwarded on to the KHF. The result of doing this lead to repeated personal attacks and threats to myself by people inside his organization. Additionally, within those hundred pages of emails or so, which I recently reviewed, I did not find one mention of this person slandering, insulting or threatening his seniors in the KHF. It is possible I overlooked it, but I do not think so. Something like that would stick out in my mind. Therefore, when I wrote my previous email I was unaware of this. Please forgive my ignorance and understand I do not have access to all the sources you have since I have lived in South Korea for the last five years. Mr. Clay, as I stated in an open message of the BBS of the KHF web site, I deeply feel for your situation since I too have been hurt by instructors I respected and believed. I also agree with you that he should be expelled for his actions, however, I do not know if the KHF will take that severe of action. I promise I do everything I can to expedite the KHF decision, whatever form it may be. I have also spoken to the KHF about Master Whalen and have given him my full support since July. I have spoken to Master Whalen several times on the telephone and feel the same as everyone else does regarding his character and desire to help the KHF. Master Whalen is an outstanding member of the KHF with the years of training, seniority and contacts throughout the world to successfully help put this matter behind us. (Sorry Hal, but I just can’t refer to you by your given name yet. Please blame it on sixteen years of formal training.) Mr. Cushing, I have also relayed the information about the disappointment of the Florida seminar to the KHF. You stated that the person in question “had apparent authority to speak for the KHF in the United States.” To the best of my knowledge, this is untrue. He took the responsibility upon himself to do this and continued to tell lies in support of his actions. He passed off a KHF document stating he was an official KHF instructor as a document proving his title as ”US Representative”. This document was written in Korean with a vague English, and therefore few people would know their exact purpose outside of Korea. Your other comment, “If you are going to run a world wide organization, you better put in the monitoring and safeguard systems to protect your own name and the funds of the people who rely on you”, could not be more true. I know for a fact the KHF has learned and is still learning from this experience. You can imagine the shame they feel knowing that one of their highest ranking foreign masters has done this to them. The safeguards you mentioned are being discussed and will be in place sometime in the future. To be fair, this matter has already greatly slowed down the implementation of several changes and advancements the KHF wanted, so they are listening and responding, but in their own way. Finally, in regards to your extreme dislike of how the KHF has handled the situation so far, all I can say is that it is out of our hands. Myself and many others do not believe the KHF is at fault for the actions of one bad apple. The restitutions that need to be made fall on his shoulders. Please, allow blame to be cast of those who wronged others, not on a larger organization who had little or no knowledge of the situation. I wonder if you have ever seen the KHF headquarters. Currently it is run out of a back office staffed with about five people. Therefore, please do not think the KHF is a large organization such as the Kukkiwon. The nature of the KHF is changing, but change takes time. For an example of this in the martial arts world just look at what is occurring with the three factions of the ITF. This is new ground for the KHF and it is doing its best. Finally, as someone who has lived in Korean society for several years, I completely understand your disappointment with how they deal with problematic situations. I can relate to you numerous accounts where horrific situations were ignored due to Korean logic and ideals. I feel the same as you and understand the necessity of swift action. Due to this, I ask you and everyone to understand Korean culture works vastly different from western cultures. To explain all this would take several more pages. However, I will endeavor to help them understand that immediate action is called for. Sincerely, John A. Johnson _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: tntcombatives@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:22:54 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] XMA/Reality - long post Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, .... the length of this post should make Bruce jealous!!-) ---A while ago, I got irritated when I rec'd the new century MA catalog with Chat on the cover.....so I put fingers to keys and came up with the following: Enjoy. Extreme Martial Arts & Reality. The idea has been around for a while. The idea is X or extreme. It includes everything from extreme deodorants to extreme sports…and of course, the idea also includes extreme martial arts. You see the images and method everywhere. On MA magazine covers, MA supply catalogs, advertisements for supplemental MA school programs, and on national sports networks…coverage of talented martial artists striking highly aggressive poses and screaming uncontrollably. I find myself embarrassed for MA when I see this type of display. I worry that the hard work of many instructors and MA personalities to improve the public view of MA from the ‘chopsoki krotty’ image to the professionally taught and positive image, has been crushed by these ridiculous antics. Public perception is what fuels many of the world’s best MA schools. If the public’s image of MA is negative, the industry will suffer. During the last 20 years, I have endured, as many others have, the ignorant high-pitched ‘wassaaahhh’ of others. Although I feel like crushing idiots like this, I always try to point out the obvious error in their thought processes. One of the main focuses of MA training is personal control. Control of your mind, control of your body, the ability to control others through the positive character development MA can provide, and the obvious control over others should physical means be used. The ability to summon ferocity and fighting spirit should be fostered in training. The factors that necessitate this type of reaction are those that would cause us grievous harm should we fail to act, such as fighting to protect a loved one, being outnumbered or faced with weapons in a surprise violent encounter. The times to use this type of controlled aggression should be covered during realistic skills application and through discussion and lecture. A person uses the skills and knowledge learned and applies them during a dangerous or deadly encounter. It is a conscious choice of reaction. It is cognitive aggression. A great example of cognitive aggression can be found during NHB matches. Fighters must use their skills to overcome an adversary who is very likely to cause them serious damage should they act incorrectly or fail to act. The best NHB fighters show tremendous spirit and focus. Once they win a match, they are able to maintain their composure. Another great example of cognitive aggression is the LE SWAT team. They are highly trained and very disciplined. They choose to achieve their goals through violence of action and cognitive aggression. Control is mandatory. On the other side of the spectrum is primal aggression. This is the type of action one sees from a cornered animal. The fight-flight-freeze reaction has been activated and the person begins to fight out of instinct. The ferocity is present, but the control and organized thought processes are not. The fighter lacks the reasoning skills and techniques of one who chooses to fight this way instead of defaulting to instinct. For those of us who recognize the difference between primal and cognitive aggression, extreme MA seem to be trying to be both. I see fantastic technique and skill combined with the seemingly out of control screeching of a wounded animal fighting for survival…but reality bites. The public does not have the same appreciation for flawless technique. They see the obvious flurry of movement that seems out of control, and hears the intolerable constant screaming. The public perception of chopsaki kungfooee is humor. I don’t recall the last time someone mentioned a cheesy kung fu movie without laughing. Try and imitate a character in one of those movies. You will find yourself doing a flurry of movements and screaming like you are being tortured. That is not the perception I want for those coming into my school. I do not want that reaction when I try to present myself as a serious martial arts instructor. I do not want that reaction when I present my resume of skills as a police combatives instructor. I do not want that reaction when people see that a public martial arts demonstration is about to happen. Those that have experienced physical combat first hand know the reality of fighting. Part of that reality is knowing that you do not have time for protracted screaming while defending your life or physical well being. You do not have time to dazzle your opponent with your ability to perform multiple 540’s after doing back flips and cool poses. Real fighting is brutal and serious because the consequences of losing are brutal and serious. Even if you win, the legal considerations can be daunting. There are times when martial artists need to defend themselves with physical force. When fights happen, hopefully the well training student is not the aggressor but is reacting to the threat’s actions. Important witness factors come into play. Your actions will be viewed by witnesses at the scene or by the public jury during your assault trial. If you present properly during the initial stages of the confrontation, witnesses will say you acted appropriately. If they witness you performing your demonstration skills while screaming like a banshee, they will likely say you were the aggressor, or that you instigated the confrontation. Even if you did not start the fight, if you choose to use ‘extreme’ skills during or after the action, your actions can be viewed as excessive and out of control kah-rah-tay. Remember the basic perception of extreme MA; Strike a ferocious pose, scream, do a wild technique, scream again, end with another grandiose posture, scream again and vibrate with energy. Try explaining that to the jury. Perception is everything. Witness perception is what will be presented should law enforcement become involved. Much of the probable cause for your arrest (or freedom) will be a direct result of how others perceive your actions and motives. All that being said, I still enjoy being dazzled by talented martial artists. The incredible agility and dedication to perfect many of the very difficult techniques we find in extreme martial arts can be inspiring. I encourage my students to attempt extreme techniques and to fight with violence of action, but I temper that with realistic knowledge and training so that they may display the traits of cognitive aggression… oh, and I don’t let them scream uncontrollably either. -- Mark Gajdostik --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:42:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Confusiious on rank advancement.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir/Maam As the requirements get more difficult, the ranks always become thinner, or so it seems to me. Overcomming difficulties is a great part of what the Martial Arts are about, you and I both being human,(at least YOU according to my wife) naturally get more nervous as the difficulty level climbs. This isn't just for gup levels, it also pertains to dans, as the world certainly gets smaller as you progress. Learn to use this as a tool to motivate you to study harder and train harder to better prepare yourself. So don't worry, there isn't anything wrong with you. Now, a little favor if you please: Mail this post to me when I'm a basket case in a couple years when I have to test again! Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:30:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Vic Cushing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Vic, It was nice sharing the BACK ROW with you at the Hackworth seminar. From talking with the KHF, Oh, Se Lim came to do testing, not a seminar. The Seminar part, according to the KHF, was never planned. Seems Someone told you and I the same thing, that Oh would be teaching the whole thing. Wonder who that was? Grace and Peace, daryl P.S. Some poor folks bought "OFFICIAL" uniforms just to be in the seminar. I was glad I was not the only Non conformist in the group in black diamond pattern. ha ha. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Vincent DeSalvo" To: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:28:26 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] New School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >I just recently joined a new Taekwondo school in my area. This school is >a franchise...has other schools just like all over the U.S. It is not a >bad school. I am just concerned about the price and whether it is a >"cookie cutter" school or a genuine TKD school. I don't usually say to much, except when I see someone used. Find another school!! I have seen too many of these schools that nickel and dime you to no end. Find a better school. I travel 1 hr one way for my Hapkido class three times a week for that very reason. There are always a few individuals out there looking for sheep. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:24:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Warning to Hapkidoin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps all this attention that has been focused on the goings on in the KHF and Florida will serve as a two-fold warning within the Hapkido community. First, if your looking for something in the way of recognition and certification from ANY entity that does NOT require a "wait and see" time period to evaluate your personal history, ability and , perhaps even character, is probably not worth joining. If an organization wants to make it difficult to join, making the applicant jump through various fiery hoops especially before being awarded a dan increase, is a GOOD thing, insuring that the membership retains it's overall knowledge and ability level, with the thought in mind that the organization is only as good as the absolute WORST person holding their certification. If an organization offers to jump you over a single dan grade (much less two or more), although flattering, you must step back and look at it with a critical eye. Years ago, one of my 2nd dans was offered a 5th dan by another instructor, and my comment was "that's about right, one of their 5th's is like one of me 2nd's".....The man is still with me and is yet to be a 5th dan. Secondly, if you are in a position of high rank, you have probably worked for many years to get there, it would be a shame to turn all that hard work, dedication and time around by either accepting a promotion from someone else or yourself which will, to the rest of the Hapkido populace, negate all of that which has gone before and leave in it's place "yeah, he's good, but he went from 3rd to 6th overnight". If there is a high point to all of this, it is that whoever these "orphaned" people go to for their affiliation, perhaps the next group will weigh more carefully who they accept, offer rank to and stand behind them saying "this person is what our organization is all about at "X" dan, and is representative of what I was at that same place in my training. If not, perhaps a reevaluation of requirements and practices is in order. Thanx for your time....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:38:52 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Speaking of Oranizations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While on the subject of the various Hapkido organizations, I would like to mention that several different groups will be represented at the 20th International Hapkido and KMA seminar in Jackson in March. First the National Korean Martial Arts Assn. by Master Rudy Timmerman, 8th dan. The Korea Hapkido Fed. by Master Hal Whalen, 7th dan, as well as the possibility of Master Holcombe Thomas, also 7th dan attending. Both of these men were mentioned on the KHF website as being the Sr. KHF members in the USA. The International Hapkido Alliance under Master Geoff Booth (also of the Sin Moo Hapkido Assn.) The Sin Moo Hapkido Assn. under GM Ji, Han Jae by Master Ray Terry, 5th dan. The USKMAF by myself, Master Richard Hodder, 8th dan, and Master Dennis McHenry, 6th dan. The Dae Han KiDo Hwe by Dr. He Young Kimm & myself. I personally know each of these men and vouch for their character and ability and have worked on the mat with each of them, and if you wish to talk to a group of outstanding masters about your Hapkido future, there will be no better time and place. J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:24:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] circus flips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In response to Chris Holmes: Maybe you know some things that I do not. On a personal level I am not very keen on any kind of demonstrations or "performances", including the testing ceremonies or tournaments. However, when I am wearing my Hanmudo uniform, I do what Dr. Kimm asks me to do. Not for my own self promotion, or to try to impress anyone. At this point I could give a rat's a** whether I ever tested or participated in a tournament again. I would much rather be an unknown, yet competent 2 dan, than a high profile senior with ersatz, or questionable abilities. As many on this list have noted before, people are too eager to garner rank, or prestige, and rush through their training with predictable results. For example, I truly believe you could spend many years just trying to understand the intricacies of the sonmoksul (yellow belt level techniques). As far as the getting old part; thus far it hasn't been too much of a problem (for the record I'm only 40). I still hit the mat as hard as I ever did, and up to this point I haven't encountered a situation where I thought "If I could just do a flip, or a back handspring, I could get out of this". However if I thought that was my only recourse, I would give it a shot regardless of my chronological condition. Actually age should not be a factor if the technique is good. When properly executed most techniques require very little strength. A point that is often lost, even with some higher belts. Being 5'8" and 150lbs. it is essential that I exploit every advantage, and rely on solid technique, rather than strength or acrobatics. Since I have no commercial interest associated with my training, I really do not care what those unfamiliar with the MA think, or if they are scared off. I enjoy teaching, or sharing what little I know, but I don't "give up" techniques or tolerate overly compliant partners (maybe that's why I'm so damn popular, huh?). I gladly take what I dish out, and if they can't take the heat, there are others that might offer a more gentle approach. On those occasions where I have had the privilege to be Dr. Kimm's crash test dummy, I can assure you that it is never pre-arranged. You never really know what is going to happen to you, and you'd better be ready. I have also found that it is not well advised to try and anticipate too much, as the good Doctor can be quite deceptive (tricky) when initiating a technique. Dr. Kimm has never in my experience performed a "half a**" or a "for show" technique. They are always dead on, with control, and intensely painful (yowza!!). Just so you understand, none of my opinions in anyway pertain to you personally, or to any specific individual within our, or anybody else's, organization. I know how email discussions can sometimes be taken the wrong way. I have no nefarious intent whatsoever; just talkin'. Since I have gone this far, I would like to thank everyone on this list, including yourself, for the wealth of knowledge I have gained over the years just by reading your posts. I wish everyone a happy holiday season, and hope you have much success in the coming New Year. Kamsahamnida, Chris in BR --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:21:24 -0500 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Cushings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Cushing: Personally, after the first few hours I was glad to line up in back as hopes to not necessarily get connected to the mess that had taken place and was soon to ensue. Being opinionated and "quite a character" (my words) are a compliment. Of course, being opinionated has it's time and place... In my mind, asking for refunds only puts you on record but it will never come to pass so why even make the recommendation. It is better to write it off as a bad experience. Fortunately for me, a NON-khf member, I looked at it that way and wasn't overly insulted. It just re-affirmed by belief that I was already with a wonderful organization and I am happy to be there. Let these things take care of themselves. I am sure that Mr. Hackworth will eventually be dealt with in any way the KHF sees fit to do it. The people who need legitimate rank through KHF will be helped in time I am sure as well. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:36:13 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Last Samurai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's an email I wanted to share with the list regarding the movie. The following email was sent to Rev. Kensho Furuya of the Aikido Center of Los Angeles & the Los Angeles Sword and Swordsmanship Society : Me: Dear Rev. Kensho Furuya, I hope all is well with you. I read your post about the armor used in "The Last Samurai." I was curious as to what specifically is historically inaccurate about the depiction of the armor. I have a friend who is doing Japanese history at UCLA and he mentioned that the movie deviated from historical accuracy as well. Could you let me know? Sincerely, Ali Alnasser Rev. Kensho Furuya wrote the following: It is totally bogus and inaccurate in the movie, it would be ludicrous it even begin to describe how inaccurate the movie is in almost every way and aspect. It is all Hollywood fantasy and schlock commercialism, please don't even think it is close to how Japan was. . . . . [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest