Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #573 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Mary Sue (Charles Richards) 2. Mary sue (David Weller) 3. Re: Mary Sue's Counterpart (Stovall, Craig) 4. Message 4 vol 10 #571 (Richard Tomlinson) 5. "Mary Sue Homemaker" (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 6. Holiday greetings (J.R. West) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 06:05:17 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mary Sue Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Craig, Gonna have to take you to task on the Mary Sue homemaker image. And yes I've met her at open tournaments, BUT Meet my wife, started training with me before our first child was born, completed our first all day seminar at 6 months pregnant. Then there's Catharine a 4th Gup who kicks harder and more technically correct than the men. And Pam who also kicks harder than most men (6th gup) and packs a pretty mean backfist. And Ariel, my pre-teen two time gold medalist in sparring. My point is most of my Tang Soo Do ladies would mop up the floor with Mary Sue homemaker, and their instructors....but are homemakers themselves. Now let us not forget ladies like Master Lee, Dr. Audrey Tsao, Kat Kelly, Linda Denly, Kim Du Trin, Kathy Long and my instructor Sheila Carpenter. I personally wouldn't tell any of them they are Mary Sue Homemakers :-) Gender and homemaking have nothing to do with a quality martial artist. It's got more to do with the individual and the quality of training they receive. Just my ten cents worth my two cents is free MC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:21:25 -0600 From: David Weller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mary sue Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Stovall, Just so you know: Not everyone who practices Tae Kwon Do is a gutless, flabby, pencil pusher who has a Kukkiwon certificate on the wall above the bar in the basement to impress their friends at cocktail parties. Some of us train several times a week with our instructors, teach, work out at home and maintain a fit body (and mind through forms practice and meditation). I HEAR what you are saying, but kindly don't throw every TKD practitioner in the same bucket as Mary Sue and Billy Bob. I too do not care for seeing overweight slobs wearing black belts. Nor am I a proponent of children being black belts. But if Mary Sue is getting a tight ass from kicking, and Dr. Bob likes to work up a sweat once a week and is proud of that, does that make ME a lesser person, or martial sportist (a new word I invented just for you..) because I train in the same school? I thought not! And who the hell am I to tell them that because I train for different reasons than they that they are wrong? I enjoy your take on things so kindly don't pound me into the ground for my comments. As someone recently stated here, not everyone trains to become (or even CAN become) a NHB Billy Badass. What's the point in denigrating those with skills inferior to yours? Life (and Martial Arts) is like a Baptist Potluck, everyone brings something different to the table. Some of the stuff is really yummy (like that special creamed corn Mrs. Cleaver makes) and some of it makes you want to hurl (think Mrs. Brady's candied yams). Respectfully, dave "Life SHOULD be a buffet" weller --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:50:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mary Sue's Counterpart Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Well, you could just change Mary Sue to Billy Bob as it was said earlier and you'd still hit the mark, as there are plenty of guys out there that fit the exact same mold (for shame). However, there is another species of dojang dodo that seems to only exist in the male form. I call him Milton. Milton is between the ages of 35 and 55. He's been doing martial arts for about 10 years and is usually a 1st or 2nd degree black belt. Much like a 13-year-old hunting dog, he is absolutely worthless, but you love him too much to shoot him. Milton is about 40 to 60 pounds overweight, and his dobok is always pressed and starched with every official federation patch in the exact place where it should be. In fact, if you ever have a question about patches or belt tying or uniforms...Milton is the man because he is the expert. He can often be seen telling colored belts that their federation arm patch is a quarter inch too high on the sleeve, and that they should get that fixed before the Grandmaster comes to visit next month. Milton carries himself as if he were the right hand man of the dojang. In some respects he is...if the chief instructor needs to get the word out on something, all he has to do is tell Milton and it will be all over the school before the night is over. Milton has plenty of time to spread information because it's not like he's busy training or something. Milton does participate in class...he usually leads the warm-ups (read: tells everybody else how many jumping jacks and push-ups to do). On the nights that the chief instructor leads the warm-ups, Milton can usually be found answering the telephone or talking to a prospective student that has wandered in during class. He eventually joins in during class, usually to help give advice on proper form. This means he can tell you what the proper form should be, but if you want to actually see the proper form then you should watch the chief instructor. Milton also likes to spar...especially in the children's classes where you can see him decked out in his $250 limited edition Chuck Norris autographed sparring gear. However, one-steps are Milton's favorite...Milton knows 1,001 ways to kill a human being who is locked out in the classic lunge punch position, or who has just grabbed the lapel of his freshly starched jacket. He also has a mean hip-throw...you can usually see him demonstrating it in the childrens classes, or on 105 pound female purple belts. Milton absolutely loves the tournament scene. There has not been a tournament in his region for the last five years in which he did not participate...as a judge. Milton hasn't competed since he was a green belt, and gave up competing since his foam rubber nunchaku form failed to take the gold in the open weapons division. Damn judges!!! He has a t-shirt from every tournament that he has ever been to and you can usually see him wearing them at the local galleria, or on casual Friday down at Mid-State Plastic Suppliers where he works as the webmaster/network administrator. No one really knows how Milton got to black belt level since he has never been seen doing anything much more than front kick, reverse punch, and knife-hand strike. He is generally admired as the epitome of dogged determination and "stickwithitness" winning out over complete lack of ability and general ineptitude. And people have to admit he has the deadliest looking one-steps. New students rarely talk to Milton (just like the veteran students), and their only interaction usually occurs when Milton comes over and offers his unsolicited advice. In fact, this is what he is usually doing when he's not answering the phone, talking to prospective students, or sparring with the children. The recipients of the advice usually fall all over themselves to thank Milton, since this seems to really make him feel good...therefore prompting him to go take a well-deserved break, and thus leaving them alone for awhile. The recipients then work up the courage to ask one of the higher ranking colored belts, "What's up with THAT dude?!?!?". To which the higher ranking student replies, "Shhhhhh...that's Milton. He's an institution around here...just learn to deal. C'mere and I'll show how to do that form correctly...I saw that he showed you the wrong way...again." This time of year is a special time for Milton, and he usually celebrates the holidays by ordering himself a large piece of special order training equipment through the school's pro shop. Of course, he could have just ordered it directly from the manufacturer and had it shipped to his house (like the chief instructor told him to), but that way the other people at the school wouldn't have got to see it. Everyone who comes in that day knows to steer clear of the pro shop area, lest they be subjected to Milton's 10-minute speech about how he's going to do 5 rounds every morning before work on this new Wavemaster in order to lose that "extra 10 pounds" he's carrying. He also tells people how they should get one for themselves, since you can really let loose and "get the chi flowing on these bad boys". After taking it home, it usually ends up in the garage gathering dust right next to the other assorted hardcore training equipment he's bought over the years...a stretch rack, a B.O.B. self-defense striking dummy, a water core heavy bag (still in the box and unfilled), and a Wing Chun dummy that actually belonged to Bruce Lee (that's what the guy on E-bay said). This stuff would probably get more use if he put it in his rec room like he said he was going to do. However, that's not going to happen now since Milton's wife made him move the Friday night Dungeons & Dragons group out of the den and into the rec room ever since the infamous "Orc incident". Between the tables, chairs, shelves, and his beloved model train sets...there's no room to work out. Plus, he's REALLY wanting to get into Warhammer 40,000 and those model sets take up a LOT of room. That is Milton. I love him dearly...for some reason he makes Craig feel really good about himself. In truth, there's a female version of Milton called Hillary. She's different enough to deserve her own explanation, but I get too pissed off just thinking about her. Oh well... Craig "But There's a Little Bit of Milt in ALL of Us" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:55:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Message 4 vol 10 #571 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The "Mary-Sue" had me laughing and now the out of shape black belts really hit home! I am a 45 year old female first Dan and have just moved from assistant instructor to instructor. Before TKD I cycled 150 miles a week and weight trained 4 to 5 times a week fo 1 1/2 hours. I am more defined in muscle than I was then since every part of the body gets used in TKD. My endurance is still great! So my point is, I would be embaressed to not be in better physical condition than any of my students or non instructing black belts. As I age I expect to be stronger because I have learned how to do techniques even better, giving the technique that 100 percent thing..... So Craig, keep spouting off! It is very refreshing! Meanwhile I'll keep reminding my students TKD is not dance! sandy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:23:33 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, rterry@idiom.com Subject: [The_Dojang] "Mary Sue Homemaker" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I assume most of you saw the posting about TKD and the creative short story about Mary Sue Homemaker which started as follows: "Hi, I'm Mary Sue Homemaker. I'm a 43-year-old mother of three. I took up TKD about four years ago because I needed something to help firm up my butt,…" Obviously "Mary Sue Homemaker" is an extreme example and I understand the writer's main point, but I wish use the example to point out that there are many valuable skills to learn in practicing MA. Some people have referred to it as "the way". Gichin Funakoshi wrote about them in his book, "Karate-Do My Way of Life". Studying MA can do a lot more for one than just learning self-defense. Many people gain self-confidence, self-discipline, good people skills, good values, leadership skills, good friendships, better health and many other things, which enhance their lives and the lives of others around them. Mary Sue Homemaker, in the example, may have gained many other skills, which may have made her a better mother, better friend, and good contributor to others around her. If one is in it for only self-defense than they are probably missing out on the most important lessons of practicing MA. Mary Sue Homemaker probably lives in a good neighborhood in a good section of town and there is a high probability that she will never need to use her MA skills. She has certainly learned some skills of self-defense so she is better off today than she was four years ago when she started MA. So should the remote chance of attack occur by an unarmed attacker, she will have a better chance of defending herself. IMHO If an adult is only interested in self-defense than their top priority needs to be firearms. The ancient MA skills are not as important today as the firearm skills. Body armor should also be considered. One should also consider relocating to a safer living environment, if at all possible. If they do study MA, than they should study both a striking style and grappling style. Only a couple of years in a style will probably give them approximately 80% of the key techniques of the style. They then can select the best techniques that suit them and work to master them. They do not need to earn black belts because these are symbols of rank, which is not important for self-defense. My views on firearms and body armor are based on the events in the city near where I live, which is Washington, DC (WDC). In WDC, there have been several "running gunfights" this month. These fights include several people chasing each other while shooting their guns at the other party. Bystanders are frequently shot in these running gunfights. In fact, I believe bystanders were shot in all of the running gunfights this month. In addition, there are always drive by shooting in WDC. In addition, one probably should practice running and evading skills as well. I am getting a little off my point, which is there are many other valuable skills to gain from MA other than just self-defense. I sure some of you will not agree with all my comments and that is OK, but I hope all of you consider how practicing MA may improve ones life and maybe its those areas which maybe more important than self-defense. Please note that I am NOT defending poor quality MA programs, poor quality MA instruction, MA fakes and frauds. High standards of quality should be "top priority" in any MA program, but there should be more learned than just self-defense. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Happy New Years John --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:02:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Holiday greetings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to take an opportunity to wish everyone a happy holiday season from all the students and instructors at West's Hapkido Academy, and we look forward to seeing everyone personally in March. My daughter and I are heading north in the morning for a week of freezing weather and bad traffic, but we will have an absolutely wonderful time. Thanx to Ray for maintaining this list, and thanx to all the contributors that make reading this digest so entertaining. See you next year. By the way, best wishes to Ms. Kat Kelly of Braeswood Martial Arts in Houston, TX. Kat had an operation on her knee this morning and I hope she has a speedy, complete recovery........ J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest