Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 07:35:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #4 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Thank you (Jason E. Thomas ) 2. RE: Re: The Mc Dojang- my experience (Thomas Gordon) 3. Martial Arts Creed (Sheree Goldstein) 4. GM West's Holiday Hapkido Seminar (Chris LaCava) 5. Reply to: Delema: Loyalty to your school (JShillieto@aol.com) (Simpson, John) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Loyalty_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Koguryo Relics (Ray Terry) 8. RE: Re: The GMC Dojang- my experience (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 9. RE: weight workout plans? (Stovall, Craig) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason E. Thomas " To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Thank you Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 21:24:56 -0600 Organization: North Austin Tae Kwon Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Congratulations, my current senior student (excluding the ITF 4th Dan that trains with me occasionally) just made Green Belt, 7th Gup (my club is just under 1 year old) and it was a great feeling to see him get over that hurdle. Upon seeing the picture, I remember training with the gentlemen at the last Jackson Seminar. He was truly a quality martial artist and a gentleman. I enjoyed talking a little about the Shotokan I practice and what the similarities and differences are between that and the Tang Soo Do he practiced. He's a great reflection of your quality instruction and mentoring. Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Tae Kwon Do www.natkd.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Richards [mailto:mojakwan@yahoo.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:54 PM > To: Dojang Digest > Subject: [The_Dojang] Thank you > > Many thanks to GM West, Master Mac, GM Hodder, and many others that > have believed in me over the last three years as Master Richards... > After three years of putting up with me, I now have two red belts (2nd > gup) that started in my garage. I hope they make it through the next > year or so to Chodan and 1st poom. They are a father and son team (mom > is back in school after earning a 3rd gup). > I am looking forward to making the trek to Jackson with my own mutants > :-) > > > http://www.mojakwan.com/firstredbelts.JPG > > > Yours in Jung Do, > > Charles Richards > www.mojakwan.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: The Mc Dojang- my experience Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:28:17 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Langton, There is a lot of truth to this. There is a fine balancing act between being a true blue martial art By God instructor who only produces the absolute definition of a black belt. Then you have the belt factories. Trick is to balance in between. I met a man once that had been teaching for about 30 years. In that time he had produced about 15 black belts. In fact, his "international" organization has produced about 20 (counting his 15). The road to black belt is about 8 years. In other words, I could get a doctorates from Harvard law in about the same time I could get a black belt in his organization. However, the road from 1st to 2nd was only about a year....go ponder. Anyway, his school closed and he currently has about two schools in his "international" organization. He works a full time job and he always will. Despite the grueling and ridicules requirements, his juniors still like ...well...juniors. And no junior has ever gotten a black belt in his system that I know of. Personally, I can't stand the McDojos nor do I particularly care for the true blue martial art By God instructors. However, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what I think. What matters is that the person can make their rent and still produce a reasonably high quality martial art student. Thomas Gordon Florida, USA -----Original Message----- From: Michael Allen Langton [mailto:mal50@csufresno.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 9:03 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Mc Dojang- my experience I agree with the premise that most of the Martial Arts schools that saty in business are the MC Dojang type. I have been a practicing martial artists in Fresno California for nearly fifteen years and have come across manny students that feel that they are at a good Mc Dojang. My comment is this. Before a student or promising instructor can make such a claim, they should venture out to what other schools are doing and what is being taught. I too was at a Mc. Dojang. The schhol didn't start out that way, and I believe that master Cho of Cho's Tea Kwon Do wanted to really teach a traditional way, but after several years of low enrollement he decided to make a change. I was there to see this change and in fact helped to create the first Commercial Tae Kwon Do school in the Fresno area. After being told that I was wearing my students out and that I nneded to not stress the self defense side of tae kwon do as much I really began to examine my reosons for studying martial art s. Sadly, I left a Master cho and decided to study under Don Vercellini. We had a small school for several years but slowly our traditional Han Moo Kwan Tae Kwon Do School began to only attract serious martialk artists. As a result, our school closed. We have survived and still exist as a TKD club in a local gym (Sunnyside Gym) Fortunaetly for me Martial Arts is not my profession. It is my art. Recently after discussing the close possible close of our club with the Master Vercelinni I went out to see other TKD Schools in the fresno area. The Largest school PILSUNG TKD, now owned by Master Cho's TKD's brother in law was the MC Dojang that I visited. In speaking to the head instructor and franchise owner iI spoke of finding a place for my son ( 1st dan) to train. Of course I was pitched with enrolling him into the MASTERS club. In the instructors inquirery into my background he asked if I had trained in weapons and if I was certified with WTF. Even though my 1st a n d 2nd degrees are with WTF, I opted to only obtain certification through the US Central Han Moo Kwon TKD Association for my 3rd and forth degree. I was promptly informed that I could train with MASTER "TIGER" LEE'S PILSUNG TKD and obtain my WTF 3rd degree. The point being that I truly believe that this franchize owner/ instructor/martial artist thinks he is part of a GOOD MC DOJANG. My only fear is that he hasn't seen anything else. It makes me wonder, would I know as much as I do about pressure points/vital points/ strategic real fighting/ self defense/ sparring/ and the internal systems taught by a traditional TKD school if I had stayed at the MC DOJANG. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 23:33:55 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Sheree Goldstein Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts Creed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We teach this to all students ages roughly 6 and up. In the beginner class, the instructor says part of the phrase and the class repeats it. In intermediate and advanced, everyone chants it together. I will put (pause) at the points where the class repeats... "I will develop myself (pause) in a positive manner (pause) and avoid anything (pause) that would reduce (pause) my mental growth (pause) or my physical health, Sir! I will develop (pause) self-discipline (pause) in order to bring out (pause) the best in myself (pause) and others, Sir! I will use common sense (pause) before self-defense, (pause) and never be abusive (pause) or offensive, Sir! We are a black belt school. (pause) We are motivated. (pause) We are dedicated. (pause) We are on a personal quest (pause) to become the best of the best, Sir! Winners never quit. (pause) Quitters never win. (pause) I choose to win, Sir!" It's an added challenge when I lead it (rarely though it is) to have all the students chant "Ma'm" instead of "Sir", but we laugh and get through it, even the youngest. Personally, even though it's geared more to the kids, I find it motivational. Sheree Testing for TKD first dan on February 8th. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 08:32:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM West's Holiday Hapkido Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to thank Master West for a great time at our dojang and looking forward to having him back. I did a couple of private lessons with some of my students that went to the seminar and they told me they had a blast as well. During their privates, they wanted to review all that material. Great stuff! It was good to see Master West up here "in the cold" and meet his daughter Mara. I also wanted to thank Denise Lee for her offer to help prior to the seminar. Eventhough it was so close to Christmas we had a great turnout and we even had a couple of DD members in attendance besides Master West and myself (Denise Lee and BG Redfield). Thanks for being a part of the seminar. Take care and hope to see y'all in Jackson. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Simpson, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:36:29 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to: Delema: Loyalty to your school (JShillieto@aol.com) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I had a similar plateauing experience after being promoted to second dan in TKD. I regenerated my interest and enthusiasm by becoming an instructor and, in turn, learned even more about myself and the techniques I was teaching. Ultimately, I branched out and took up kumdo which, in my dojang is a Korean MA that combines elements of kendo and iaido. This opened up entirely new horizons for me. I am still connected to TKD as it provides physical benefits that are not present in kumdo. But the experience of trying something else was was important and actually reinforced some of the principles learned in TKD, underscoring the point that any MA worth its salt will provide a way of living a fulfilling life. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:07:16 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Loyalty_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Art: ".....I searched for another school and got away from the McDojang . The new place was a small school with a Master who was always there. He was mostly always on the floor too. I understand that its a business and needs to run as one, but it should provide the service you are hiring it to provide. If it doesn't, Leave it!....." I take a bit of a different view though very similar. I suggest pressing the edges of the envelope a bit to get the old school to understand the error of their ways. By this I mean it is possible to go out and connect with an alternate source and bring some of that back to the original school to see how such material is received. I suggest this because it is always possible that a person can assume a particular belief held by the school only to find that it might be more liberal than first thought. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:02:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Koguryo Relics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Beijing Denies Seoul's Access to Koguryo Relics Korea Times A group of South Korean scholars, who visited China late last month to make a field survey of relics of the Koguryo Kingdom (37 B.C.-668 A.D.), were denied access to those relics by Chinese authorities, a Korean scholar said on Friday. The Chinese action came amid controversy between South Korea and China over distortions of Korean history reportedly created by Chinese scholars. The distortions began when a group of Chinese historians were reported to have claimed that Koguryo, which stretched from the Korean peninsula to the northeastern part of China, should be considered part of Chinese history. The group led by Soh Kil-su, president of the Koguryo Research Society, was the first South Korean scholars group to try to visit the Koguryo relics in Jirin and Liaoning Provinces, northeastern China, since China submitted to UNESCO last June applications to register Koguryo artifacts in northeastern China as the worlds cultural assets. Soh said, ``While staying in Liaoning Province, we could not even get access to Koguryo relics in fortresses in accordance with a direct instruction issued by the governor of the province. During their stay in Jirin Province, he said, they were only allowed to stand in front of a monument of Great King Kwanggaeto and the tombs of Kings Changsu and Tae and just look at them. And they could only see Kungnae Fortress from the inside of a bus. The Korean archaeologists visited northeastern China from Dec. 27 to Dec. 30. ``Wherever we went, the Chinese police watched us closely. We were denied access not only to the Koguryo relics where visitors were allowed to take pictures, but also to a museum opened to the public, Soh said. Koguryo was one of the three kingdoms which occupied the Korean peninsula in ancient times. Silla Kingdom defeated Paekche Kingdom in 660. The peninsula was unified when Silla defeated Koguryo in 668. 01-02-2004 16:03 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: The GMC Dojang- my experience Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:10:16 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have read so comments. I am so glad that I am part of a small but well established dojang where we pushed to our limits. in fact I must be sadist. I look fwd to my weekly dose of hurt! -----Original Message----- From: Michael Allen Langton [mailto:mal50@csufresno.edu] Sent: 05 January 2004 03:03 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Mc Dojang- my experience I agree with the premise that most of the Martial Arts schools that saty in business are the MC Dojang type. I have been a practicing martial artists in Fresno California for nearly fifteen years and have come across manny students that feel that they are at a good Mc Dojang. My comment is this. Before a student or promising instructor can make such a claim, they should venture out to what other schools are doing and what is being taught. I too was at a Mc. Dojang. The schhol didn't start out that way, and I believe that master Cho of Cho's Tea Kwon Do wanted to really teach a traditional way, but after several years of low enrollement he decided to make a change. I was there to see this change and in fact helped to create the first Commercial Tae Kwon Do school in the Fresno area. After being told that I was wearing my students out and that I nneded to not stress the self defense side of tae kwon do as much I really began to examine my reosons for studying martial art s. Sadly, I left a Master cho and decided to study under Don Vercellini. We had a small school for several years but slowly our traditional Han Moo Kwan Tae Kwon Do School began to only attract serious martialk artists. As a result, our school closed. We have survived and still exist as a TKD club in a local gym (Sunnyside Gym) Fortunaetly for me Martial Arts is not my profession. It is my art. Recently after discussing the close possible close of our club with the Master Vercelinni I went out to see other TKD Schools in the fresno area. The Largest school PILSUNG TKD, now owned by Master Cho's TKD's brother in law was the MC Dojang that I visited. In speaking to the head instructor and franchise owner iI spoke of finding a place for my son ( 1st dan) to train. Of course I was pitched with enrolling him into the MASTERS club. In the instructors inquirery into my background he asked if I had trained in weapons and if I was certified with WTF. Even though my 1st a n d 2nd degrees are with WTF, I opted to only obtain certification through the US Central Han Moo Kwon TKD Association for my 3rd and forth degree. I was promptly informed that I could train with MASTER "TIGER" LEE'S PILSUNG TKD and obtain my WTF 3rd degree. The point being that I truly believe that this franchize owner/ instructor/martial artist thinks he is part of a GOOD MC DOJANG. My only fear is that he hasn't seen anything else. It makes me wonder, would I know as much as I do about pressure points/vital points/ strategic real fighting/ self defense/ sparring/ and the internal systems taught by a traditional TKD school if I had stayed at the MC DOJANG. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:19:12 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: weight workout plans? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> A lot of it depends upon what you're looking for. If you're looking to increase maximal strength I would suggest Pavel Tsatsouline's book 'Power to the People'. It's a bit pricey, but I recommend it if for nothing else than the fact that it will keep people away from the Muscle & Fitness bodybuilding isolation crap. Pavel wrote the program with martial artists in mind, since most martial artists would like to increase strength (without increasing size), but have a hard time justifying spending hours in the gym. Pavel's protocol is very brief...you basically do two compound movements (one pull, one press) with two sets for each exercise (a heavy set followed by a lighter set). Basically, that's it. You also don't need any equipment other than a barbell set. I recently got his book myself, and while I don't intend to follow his program to the letter, I have definitely picked up some very useful concepts and tools. His writing style is also very entertaining and folksy, but backed up by science. I bought mine new, but you may want to check Ebay, or the Z-shops at Amazon for a used copy. It may be ideal for you if you're looking to get some benefit from basic strength training without spending an inordinate amount of time in a gym. If you're looking to increase strength-endurance, then I'd suggest looking into Crossfit. If John Frankl is still on this list...he's an excellent source of information on Crossfit. Otherwise, check out their website. The main goal of Crossfit (per my interpretation) is to help one increase one's General Physical Preparedness (GPP). GPP is considered by many to be the 'next big thing' in Western Sports/Athletics, and is in direct contrast to the Western model of throwing people directly into the Darwinian meatgrinder of sport specific activity. Definitely give them a look. 'Bigger, Faster, Stronger' is also a good program that has been around since forever. Again, I don't use their program verbatim since it is intended to train varsity athletes divided into small groups of workout partners. However, I have successfully borrowed movements and concepts from their program. It's good and it works. Much like 'Power to the People' it cuts through the crap, and will keep you focused on movements that increase real-world athletic performance. BFS is good in that it addresses a lot of different issues related to athletic performance...strength, speed, agility, and flexibility. I have the BFS book that recently came out, and I believe it was under $20. Basic advice: stick to Olympic Lifting and Powerlifting movements...they work the kinetic chains. Learn how to train and develop your core strength...the abs, obliques, spinal erectors, glutes, and hams. Pecs and biceps look great, but it is the muscles of the posterior chain that really influence the quality of your physical movement. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest