Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:15:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #19 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Kung Fu? (Lasich, Mark D.) 2. Why can't we get along.... isolationism in KMA (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 3. Why can't we get along.... (Wicker, H. Keith) 4. AAU Taekwondo Newsletter January 2004 (fwd) (Ray Terry) 5. Getting along (Rudy Timmerman) 6. RE: Why can't we get along.... (Richard Zaruba) 7. Re: Kung Fu? (Jye nigma) 8. Re: Why I started Martial Arts (Jenny Chen) 9. Re: Hapkido and related Videos for sale (Victor M Cushing) 10. Isolation (Stovall, Craig) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:59:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kung Fu? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone just mentioned Kung Fu with respect to their training history...This unlodged something deep in my memory: Don't know if this is right or not, but during my college days, an Indonesian friend of mine explained to me that Kung Fu actually meant something like "expert of" or "expert in".......He further explained that you could be "kung fu" in nearly anything: writing, singing, flower arranging, martial arts, etc........ Somewhere along the lines, I guess, Kung Fu became an actual martial art in it's own right! So, with respect to KMA: is there an equivalent Korean phrase that also equates to kung fu? In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:37:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Why can't we get along.... isolationism in KMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Jere R. Hilland HapkidoSelfDefense.com: You noted that "There are many teachers, organizations, etc., that tell the members/students, not to study at other dojang or visit other teachers, etc. This was true 30 years ago and it is still sadly true today." You wanted some reasons for this. Well, one big reason for it is MONEY. Name some good businesses which send their customer to shop at their competitors. I cannot think of any off the top of my head. Do Ford car dealers tell their customers to check out vehicles at GM, BMW, etc.? Does Sears tell its customers to check out other stores for better service and products? Most KMA school are in business to make money. Their owners and management may love KMA, but they need to make a living and most people want to make a good living. Cheers John --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:56:25 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Why can't we get along.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Hilland.....excellent topic!! One of my first instructors (received my ChoDan from him, years ago) was extremely adamant about my not seeking instruction from any source other than his dojang. Yet, this same instructor would go to Masters other than his primary Master for instruction.....therefore, I saw a contradiction in what he told me......therefore, I concluded he had an ego problem. I left this instructor and that instructor proved to be a man with a flawed character, and his school has since gone the way of the McDojang. Part of his legacy that I still carry is a mild anxiety every time I go train with a Master who is not my primary Master or if I invite an instructor to my school who is not my primary Master...but with the support and help of several great Masters in USKMAF (Master Mac, Master Hodder, and Master West), I am gradually getting over this issue. In my journey, I am continually working on my own stuff (ego).....it used to be that if one of my students wanted to discuss something he/she saw in a video or on the internet or learned at another dojang....my initial "thought" was "you should not be looking at that and you should only receive instruction from me" and I would say something like "you really just need to spend more time working out" or something like that......well, I have gotten much better in this area and now my response is "please show me the video or article or technique" so that we can discuss and I too can learn. Having said all this, I still believe that it is best that a student should concentrate on one style/instructor until they at least receive their ChoDan (provided that there is mutual respect between student / instructor and the student is getting their needs met). Take care, Keith Keith Wicker Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF League City and Baytown, Texas http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/Wicker.htm --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:25:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] AAU Taekwondo Newsletter January 2004 (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings! Here is your AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for January 2004. AAU Taekwondo competitions feature both Olympic and Point sparring, and traditional Taekwondo forms, including WTF, ITF, and TSD/MDK forms may be performed. For more information visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org In This Issue: *AAU Takes Position on USTU Decertification *Steven Lopez Among The Finalists For The James E. Sullivan Award *Tournament & Events Schedule *AAU Takes Position on USTU Decertification The AAU has posted on the AAU Taekwondo website its official position on the USOC's decision to decertify the USTU. Go to http://www.aautaekwondo.org to read the latest update. *Steven Lopez Among The Finalists For The James E. Sullivan Award Olympic gold medalist and AAU Taekwondo Team coach Steven Lopez is one of 12 finalists for the prestigious James E. Sullivan Award. Basketball stars LeBron James and Diana Taurasi are also on the list of 12 finalists for the award which is presented to the nation's outstanding amateur athlete. Heisman Trophy winner Jason White, speedskater Apolo Anton Ohno, swimmer Michael Phelps, John Fonseca (karate); Paul Hamm (gymnastics); Chellsie Memmel (gymnastics); Barb Lindquist (triathlon); Rickie Weeks (baseball); and Philippa Raschker (track and field) also are candidates. The winner will be announced April 13 in New York. Steven Lopez is among an ultra-elite group of athletes, as LeBron James was the overall No. 1 in the NBA draft, taken by the Cleveland Cavaliers directly out of high school. Taurasi led Connecticut to the women's NCAA championship and was picked as the most outstanding player in the Final Four. *Tournament & Events Schedule January 24, 2004 Central California 3rd Annual Winter Classic Kerman, CA For information contact Paul Sullivan 559-546-3222 pauls@sullivanstkd.com January 24, 2004 Spar Wars 2004 Kennesaw, Georgia Point Sparring Only Double Elimination Registration Deadline: January 19, 2004 For Information, Contact James Henry 770-975-9757 henrytkd@bellsouth.net February 7, 2004 KY AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Louisville, KY Contact: Rick Blair Rblairtkd@aol.com February 14, 2004 River City Taekwondo Junior Olympic Qualifier Washington Middle School 751 2nd Ave. S., Clinton, Iowa 52732 Contact: Mr. Todd Hughes 563-243-3608 February 28 , 2004 Lake Mary Invitational Seminole Family Y.M.C.A, LK.Mary , FL For information contact David Turnbull (352)-255-7707 ohjang@aol.com March 6, 2004 2004 Georgia AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Smyrna Community Center Smyrna, GA Registration Deadline February 24, 2004 For Information, Contact James Henry 770-975-9757 henrytkd@bellsouth.net March 20, 2004 Southwestern AAU Taekwondo Qualifier Meadow Brook Recreation Center 1300 Dugan St Arlington, Texas Registration Deadline March, 12 2004 For information Contact Garcia Sanchez 512-470-1915 agarcia@totalaccess.net March 27, 2004 Seminole Community College, Sanford, FL For information contact David Turnbull (352)-255-7707 ohjang@aol.com March 27, 2004 Ohio AAU TKD State Championship Thomas Worthington High School 300 W Dublin-Granville Rd., Worthington, OH For Information go to http://www.geocities.com/ohioaautkd Contact: ohioaautkd@insight.rr.com March 28, 2004 New Jersey Association Championship Morris Knolls Regional High School Rockaway, NJ For Information, Contact Kevin Balon 732-254-1214 Contact: EBTC@juno.com April 25, 2004 2004 Pacific Northwest Qualifier Spanaway, Washington For Information, Contact Ric Gordan 253-536-1146 rick.gordan@gsa.gov July 6-10, 2004 2004 AAU National Youth and Adult Taekwondo Championship Ft. Lauderdale Convention Center Registration packets will be posted on the AAU Taekwondo website shortly. August 4-7, 2004 2004 AAU Junior Olympic Games Des Moines, IA This event limited to 6-17 year old Red/Brown and Black Belts only. Registration packets will be posted on the AAU Taekwondo website shortly. *Order AAU Merchandise Online Need an AAU coach's shirt, AAU patches, pins, ties, training videos, or gup rank certificates? Now you can order them online (no more printing out order forms). Just go to http://www.aautaekwondo.org And get all the things you need! *The AAU Taekwondo Web Site Can Help You Want news, AAU Dan Certification info, tournament results, AAU merchandise, club or individual membership registration, or just the phone number of your Sport Chair? Visit: http://www.aautaekwondo.org ************************************************************** *Special Introductory Offer Exclusively for AAU Members from Summit Flexible Products. Buy 50 or more CardioFlex(tm) or CardioFlex Twin martial art mats and get tapered safety edge strips FREE. Call 888-FOR-MATS or email: summitinfo@aol.com ______________________________________________________________ The AAU Taekwondo Newsletter is brought to you by the AAU Taekwondo Program at http://www.aautaekwondo.org Edited by David Mazor --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:37:02 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Getting along Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere writes: > What is with the isolationism in KMA? > There are many teachers, organizations, etc, that tell the > members/students, > not to study at other dojang or visit other teachers, etc. This was > true 30 > years ago and it is still sadly true today. Hello Jere: In the sixties, I used to travel around to train wherever I could find a kwoon, dojo, or dojang that would allow me in the door. I found that by carrying a shiny white belt, it was much easier to get in and most folks would be quite nice to me. I ran into a few that were less cordial, but that did not deter me from trying. I guess my point is that visiting other schools is best done by being very humble, and never do YOUR stuff unless asked. Many folks who drop by my place seem to want to show me the stuff THEY know. IMHO, they miss the entire learning experience. > I once knew a well respected Korean national who told his student that > when > she went to college next month, she could not study with another > teacher > (she quit that night and I married her two years later). I have taught > workshops at someone's dojang and then had the head of that > organization > tell me that it was not proper. Ran into that one not too long ago. Indeed sad to see that some high ranking masters place conditions on helping another human being. I hope I will always have the confidence to allow my students to explore what is out there, even if I personally am not fond of too much cross training. I hate to see how we have turned out so many Jacks of all trades and Masters of none. Knowing what is out there is important, but training long enough in the art of your choosing (and other arts based on the same concepts) is also important. Many young black belts don't have the patience to stick with it long enough to get all the material an art has to offer. They tend to mix incompatible styles, and this makes it very hard to become proficient in any one style. We are fortunate that events like JRs Jackson seminar allows us to see that brotherhood and true caring for other martial artists is alive and well. If you can't make Jackson, I encourage you to come and play with us in Austin, TX. Just drop a note on the DD, and Master Thomas will give you the details. You'll see many of the same folks that attend the Jackson event there. BTW, I always welcome visitors to my dojang:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:40:27 -0600 From: Richard Zaruba To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Why can't we get along.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have experienced the same thing but from the other direction. I do not restrict my students from studying else where if they choose, but I do explain that it may slow their progress depending on their ability to separate the two. I have had several other schools in my area tell students that they could not study with me. These include Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and so called modern or American styles. This indicates to me this is not isolated to the KMA. Cross training can be of real benefit to some students and can be rather confusing to others depending on their abilities and the principles taught in each style. Each to their own as far as I'm concerned. Rich > I have a question: > > What is with the isolationism in KMA? > > There are many teachers, organizations, etc, that tell the members/students, > not to study at other dojang or visit other teachers, etc. This was true 30 > years ago and it is still sadly true today. I have always told my students > that if they find a better dojang than ours, tell me about it, I also want > to go. I also have students that cross train at other schools (usually what > they were studying before they found hapkido). Good for them. They are > adults and I am going to treat them as adults. ____________________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba, KSN Kuk Sool Won Family Martial Arts Center 2500D South Columbia Road Grand Forks, NDD 58201 Http://www.ksw-nd.com/ richard@ksw-nd.com Sch: (701) 775-7088 --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:40:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kung Fu? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yeah that's about right. "skilled work" so a chef can be said to have good kung fu. Jye "Lasich, Mark D." wrote: Someone just mentioned Kung Fu with respect to their training history...This unlodged something deep in my memory: Don't know if this is right or not, but during my college days, an Indonesian friend of mine explained to me that Kung Fu actually meant something like "expert of" or "expert in".......He further explained that you could be "kung fu" in nearly anything: writing, singing, flower arranging, martial arts, etc........ Somewhere along the lines, I guess, Kung Fu became an actual martial art in it's own right! So, with respect to KMA: is there an equivalent Korean phrase that also equates to kung fu? In the spirit, Mark _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Jenny Chen" To: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:54:21 -0600 Organization: Vanzebo Laser Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Why I started Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All! The main reasons why I started martial arts: 1.) As corny as it may sound, I wanted to be a Jedi Knight (and I still do!) I was drawn by the ideals they held to and the skills that they possessed. 2.) I wanted to improve my self-confidence and self-esteem. 3.) I had a new year's resolution to get into shape; and martial arts hold my interest like no other activity has ever done. 4.) I needed stress relief from work. It is working out extremely well, and I'm glad I started! Jenny --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:23:29 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor M Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido and related Videos for sale Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am selling off my collection of Hapkido and many other related videos. Go to www.modernhapkido.org/auction.htm and click on the link there for a complete listing. There are various Law Enforcement, Grappling, Filipino, and Indonesian styles for sale as well. In addition I have both of Mario Sperry's Vale Tudo 1 and Vale Tudo 2 collections for sale off line. Contact me privately... if interested. Vic Cushing --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:06:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Isolation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I know exactly what you mean. I don't think it's anything particular to KMA. I've seen the same attitudes elsewhere. Here's why I think you see it a lot. 1. Lack of confidence - many instructors know that they have weak curriculums, and fear their students will ditch once they're exposed to either a better curriculum or a better teacher. Better to keep them isolated so that they won't figure out there's a whole wide world out there. 2. Weird thinking - a lot of people (read: too many) in the MA world have this silly notion that one should be loyal to a particular style, and by way of extension, a particular instructor. Breaking this "tradition" is seen as heresy by the instructor. This line of thinking is usually bolstered by goofy pseudo-oriental wisdom..."One cannot serve two masters"..."Man who chase two rabbits go to bed hungry". In the end, it's just a ploy to keep students under their thumb. 3. "My style is the ultimate" syndrome - there are more than a few folks out there that have made a career out of getting people in the door, and then keeping them there by promising them that they'll be learning the supreme ultimate fighting system. Of course, this ploy is based upon the assumption that you don't inadvertently discover the truth by getting your ass kicked by the orange belts at the school around the block. Again...don't let the students discover that there is a world outside their particular dojang. 4. Nobody wants to train a Bruce Lee wannabe - this is actually a legitimate gripe that I can sympathize with. I'm one of the most vocal advocates of cross-training that you will ever find. However, nothing is more annoying than the 19-year-old TKD green belt who learned some Hapkido locks from his cousin, and now wants to throw the white belts all over the school before going off and creating his own system (now that he's learned it all). Some personality types really need to settle down and concentrate on one thing before they start re-writing the martial arts encyclopedia. Instructors are usually doing the right thing by reeling these types in a bit...either that, or sending them on their way. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest