Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #21 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Good mentoring (Charles Richards) 2. Training with one master (FRANK CLAY) 3. send people out to check other schools... (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 4. Kung Fu (Chris Hamilton) 5. getting along and cross training (JR Hilland) 6. RE: Visit to the Cumbria, England (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 7. From Another Group.....Kong Tzu (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:02:32 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Good mentoring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Isn't martial arts about learning oneself better ...leading to increased self confidence..... "I agree with you that money has a lot to do with it; however, I DO send people out to check other schools, and I have found this to be a very good business practice. For one thing, once prospects have checked out other schools and come back, they are more likely to stay. I also believe that by telling them to check out the other schools you build a sense of trust with the folks who come to check out the dojang. This method may not work for everyone, but it works OK for me." There is a diamond retailer here in metro Atlanta that pays a lot of money for local radio ads telling you to shop everywhere else first and then come to us for the best quality, value, and customer service. They never say they have the lowest prices, just the best value based on cut, color and clarity. I'm guessing over the last few decades GM Timmerman has developed some confidence in the clarity of his art :-), and knows that given enough time he can chisel clients into a nice cut. Color in my example relates to preference, and I guess he's decided that he's not going to invest the time in learning enough Shin Kendo to start handing out dan grading in that art. Here's a leason for school owners and cross trainers. Do the soul searching and develop a USP (Unique Selling Position). Get really good at delivering your USP. THEN enjoy cross training as a hobby. Just my ten cents my two cents is free Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:30:28 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Training with one master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Klaas, A wise master instructor knows what s/he can and cannot provide to a student. For example, while my Kung Fu training is Shandong Black Tiger, My Sifu feels that there are lessons I should learn from Hung Gar. He has asked that I train in Hung Gar as well, which requires I train with someone else. Martial art is inherently and individualistic path. No two teachers, even from the very same teacher, will have exactly the same view on martial art. There is nothing wrong with that. I would have a problem with a student who habitually jumped around, but sometimes there is no choice. For example, would you expect me to stay with Richard Hackworth's organization? I could not ethically do so. Is there something wrong with me? Or was it the result of actions I believe to be immoral? Sometimes there are good reasons for students leaving. Frank _________________________________________________________________ Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:14:06 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] send people out to check other schools... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Rudy: Thanks for your comments. You make some excellent points. You are obviously willing to take on higher level of business risk than probable most MA schools. Your comfort level to take this risk probably reflects your many years in the business and the high quality of your MA program. Do you take this risk with all levels of student? Do you probe the students for their reasons to change, concerns and objectives/goals? Do you subsequently modify your teaching or curriculum to meet their goals? Thanks John Rudy stated: "I agree with you that money has a lot to do with it; however, I DO send people out to check other schools, and I have found this to be a very good business practice. For one thing, once prospects have checked out other schools and come back, they are more likely to stay. I also believe that by telling them to check out the other schools you build a sense of trust with the folks who come to check out the dojang. This method may not work for everyone, but it works OK for me." --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:33:19 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kung Fu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am not absolutely sure of its validity, but I have heard the word kung fu is a variation of Kong Tzu. Kong Tzu is the Chinese name of Confucius. I used to take White Crane, but we called it Gung Fu to differentiate from the name used in communist China. Chris Hanmudo in BR --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "JR Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:02:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] getting along and cross training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When we were at the sonmudo (zen martial arts) temple in Korea, the adults were expected to be quiet and behave properly. The children, who often live at the temple during the summer, were not quiet and were running around having a good time. After class, I asked the abbot about that. He just said, adults are expected to behave like adults and children are expected to behave like children. I am also guilty of treating adults like adults as it is not my place to tell them what they can or can't do. I am their hapkido teacher, nothing more. Although my original post was not about cross training, but about organizations getting along, as a hapkido teacher, I have many students who are yudanja in taekwondo when they start as a white belt in hapkido. Some stay with taekwondo, some do not. Some tell their teacher, some do not. I do not get involved in their life outside of the dojang. It is not my place. As I often teach hapkido seminars, the hosting dojang is often not with our organization (the USKMAF), I see the organizational isolationism problem more often. I am not convinced it is entirely money driven. Hapkido is what I do. But in my hobbies; astronomy, bonsai and music, isolationism is death to the professional. Everyone shows up at the bonsai seminars when there is something to be learned, there is no isolationism, even among the professional growers. Professional astronomers are more than eager to help out amateur astronomers and don't care who they have studied with, etc. In the music world, if band x has a person out sick, they ask member of band y to sit in. There are no problems. But in mudo, everyone does not get along. But it is not just in the KMA. It is in all MA. Very sad. Our goal in the KMA is simply to promote the KMA. Nothing else. Anything negative is not conductive to the growth of the KMA. To bad we all do not have Master Timmerman's open mind. Just my opinion... Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Visit to the Cumbria, England Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:22:03 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Glen I leave in Kent which is quite far from Cumbria. but what I will say is that there is likely to be a TKD school in the local sports centre as it is quite big here. I will try and find out more details for you -----Original Message----- From: GLENN MCINTOSH [mailto:GLENN.MCINTOSH@sydneywater.com.au] Sent: 15 January 2004 23:58 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Visit to the Cumbria, England ----------------------------------------------------------- This email is to be read subject to the disclaimer below. ----------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Master Hilland, training with other schools can lift the blinkers that some students and teachers develop in regards to their styles. In that vain I have a request of the Dojang members, is there any UK readers of the Dojang who can supply me with some info. I live in Oz however the back end of March/early April I am coming to the UK to visit my folks. They live in Cumbria, England. I have tried to locate a Hapkido/Tae Kwon Do Dojang or any martial art school which I could train at while I am there, however up to now I haven't been able to find one school. Is there anybody out there who know any schools and possible contact numbers. Thankyou Glenn Mac Zen Dan. Kwan Hapkido Australia www.zendankwan.com.au ----------------------------------------------------------- Mandatory water restrictions now apply in Sydney, Blue Mountains and the Illawarra. Fines of $220 apply from 1 November 2003. No sprinklers or watering systems at any time. No hosing of hard surfaces including vehicles at any time. For more information visit www.sydneywater.com.au ----------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: This email is confidential. If you are not the nominated recipient, please immediately delete this email, destroy all copies, and inform the sender. Sydney Water Corporation (Sydney Water) prohibits the unauthorised copying or distribution of this email. This email does not necessarily express the views of Sydney Water. Sydney Water does not warrant nor guarantee that this email communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. ----------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:51:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From Another Group.....Kong Tzu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In Chinese Kung (Gung)fu and Kong Tzu are not related. Kung fu is a very specific term meaning the skills and knowledge acquired form the training and practice of Arts of many disaplines and not the name of an Art of the Way (Martial Arts). Wushu is the Art of Shaolin today. In older times the better name for the unarmed Art is Chuan Fa and each Art with a weapon had a different name. In the ancient times the Arts had no name except for the animal names. The difference between Kung and Gung is simply a variation in the spelling and pronunciation. Kong (Kung, Cong) Tzu is simply the Chinese name and title of Confucius. Frank --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest