Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:52:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #45 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Kick-a-thons, etc (harmonywushu@juno.com) 2. RE: weapons training... (Rick Clark) 3. RE: (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 4. Re: Judo Seminar (ABurrese@aol.com) 5. Korean weapons (Rudy Timmerman) 6. RE: Weapons Training (Michael Rowe) 7. RE: weapons training... (Stovall, Craig) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:49:04 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: harmonywushu@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Kick-a-thons, etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We did a kick-a-thon just recently. I hadn't done much research into it, beyond what the carity sent me. (St. Jude's Children's hospital, by the way has an EXCELLENT set of materials, HINT! HINT!). We had everybody doing the kicks through the entire thing. It became quite the competiton, it was fun. We just stood around in a circle. Everyone tokk tunrs picking a kind of kick, or combination of kicks, and then everyone in the circle would count out a set of ten. Lots of kicks. None of us could walk for a week afterwards. (Class the next day was pretty pathetic!, The guy with the idea of doing it teams has it right! I wish I'd though of it!) In the past, we have also done a "Punch in the gut" drive, where random folks bid for the dubious right to hit myself or students in the stomach. This one was not much fun, but raised some money quickly. Tournaments are also good, if you can get a place to hold it cheaply. Instead of buying prizes, you just award the winner a SMALL fraction of the proceeds. Prize fighting for cash breeds some poor sportsmanship though, so be careful. Just my 4.5 cents. Peter Harmony Wushu Academy Join the Fight against violence! Subscribe to the Martial Artists Against Violence email list by sending a message to martialartistsagainstviolence-subscribe@yahoogroups.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] weapons training... Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:34:35 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear George, > I wish to pose a question to the membership of the DD. > Should anyone object to the study of a particular weapon that is said > to be not Korean? ie: such as the tonfa or nunchaku. Is there or has there > ever been a list of "approved" weapons to learn? Consider that Modern Tae Kwon Do is a variation from Okinawan karate. The use of tonfa and nunchaku and other weapons are part of that tradition. In ancient times as in our era weapons are similar from nation to nation. Weapons technology would have spread through various methods, such as commerce, war, even individuals who would travel to other locations to study martial arts. I would suspect someone in Korea, at some point in time, somewhere, probably used weapons similar to those found in Okinawa. It would seem more likely that weapons similar in nature to those used in China would have found use in Korea. If for no other reasons of the geographical proximity and the political connections with China. Would the tactics have been similar from one culture to the other? Probably, the design of the weapon would dictate the function of the weapon. Different designs in weapons would thing allow different tactics. Each person, group, nation, would likely attempt to alter the design of weapons to allow new or variations of tactics to be employed to give some type of tactical advantage over their opponent. However, once that had been successfully used in battle others would see the change in weapon and methods employed and seek to change their tactics or weapons to neutralize or overcome the technology (or tactics) of their opponent. So - you could probably make a case for the study of various weapons. The question then (at least for me) would be the purpose of studying a particular weapon. Time for most of us is limited, it seems to me that each individual needs to analyze their particular goals for training in the martial arts and maximize our time in the area of study that will further our goals. To it is not unreasonable to devote smaller blocks of training time to other areas of study that are of interest to you. I would suggest if you do wish to study a particular weapon then you are faced with the decision as to if you wish to study the weapon in a traditional or contemporary fashion. Once that decision is made then seek out a mentor who has the skill and knowledge in that area to guide your study. Later, Rick Clark "It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep be" Virgil www.ao-denkou.kai.org --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:45:57 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank, You are correct, it is possible that one of Dan's forms is Chinte. I did not include it because fewer people practice Chinte in my experience, while Sip Soo and Jin to are quite common in most Tang Soo lineages. Danny <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:39:10 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Judo Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeff, I met Mike Swain at a seminar a couple years ago. Great Judo player and a nice guy. I hope you have a great time at the seminar later this month, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:58:33 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George writes: > If your org does not offer weapons other than bong hyungs, should one > be inhibited about getting instruction from "outside sources". Should > or > will your present instructor be offended by such behavior? Hello George: GM Suh has a small book out that he did with the late Jane Hallander about Korean weapons. It may not be complete or even be accurate, but it might be a good place to start. My personal opinion, given that most historical evidence has been somewhat muddled by personal views of the documentors, is based on what makes common sense to me. Instead of totally relying on what somebody tells me about what IS or what is NOT original, I simply look at what is most likely the truth. For example. Korean eat rice and have done so for ages. Why would they NOT have implements that did the treshing etc. etc. If we look at European history as represented in paintings and drawings etc. we see the farmers use pitchforks and the like as weapons. IMHO, Koreans and other communities would likely do the same. Hence, I am very skeptical about martial arts folks who claim this is authentic Korean and that is not. Right or wrong, I prefer to use my own mind and make a decision based on more than what I am told by martial art historians. As far as your present Instructor being offended if you looked elsewhere for instruction... most will. Unfortunately, there exists a closed mindedness in martial arts that is hard to pierce. You may be one of the lucky ones who has an Instructor who is comfortable enough with himself to allow (or even encourage) it, but you would be one of very few:) Sincerely, Rudy, Kwan Jang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:20:58 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Weapons Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Rowe "In the middle of a difficulty lies opportunity." - Albert Einstein mp_rowe@cox.net There will those that complain that Kobudo weapons are not Korean and should not be taught to students of Taekwondo. However, I think that weapons such as Sai, Nunchaku, Tonfa, Kama, Bo, Oar, etc can help develop unarmed fighting skills. The big thing to remember is to never imply that these weapons were used by ancient Koreans as a means to defend themselves. Heck the sai was never used by farmers but was a law enforcement tool against rouge samurai. Kobudo is a great supplement to our training and is an excellent area to give students a break when you think they may getting into a rut. Check out http://okinawa-budou.org/IOKA/index.html I studied under Shihan Mikio when he lived in Omaha, NE (long Time ago) Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:35:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: weapons training... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> For what it's worth, I say do what makes you happy. If you're interested in studying weaponry (for whatever reason), then go right ahead. Think about it like this...a stick doesn't know if it's Korean, Chinese, Filipino, or Martian. National borders exist in only two places...on the map and in our head. I've never understood why it ever became so popular to categorize and compartmentalize martial arts by "country of origin". Convenience? I dunno. Quick example: let's say I'm a Shotokan stylist. So, by extension that makes me a "Japanese Martial Artist" since I'm studying an art founded in Japan. Now, if I got a hankering to start cross-training, but wanted to stay under the "Japanese umbrella" in order to not rub my traditionalist friends the wrong way...well, I could still end up with a chop-sockey mess that's just as bad as if I had started smuggling stuff across those artificial national borders. I could take some Sumo, and some Kenjutsu, and some Judo, and mash it all together with my Shotokan. Yeah, I'm still a "Japanese Martial Artist"...just don't know what I'll be doing in the end. The reason I tell you this story is because when the person comes along that will inevitably tell you to "stick to Korean weapons", you can just nod your head and ignore them. Staying within the "Korean framework" makes no more sense than my new-fangled 'Shotomojutsudo' that I created. The important question that you have to ask yourself is this...what is the CONTEXT within which you're going to be pursuing this study. If it's just for learning/fun/self-development...then who am I or anybody else to try and curtail what you're doing. The sky's the limit. If you want to learn weaponry for self-defense...then pepper spray and tactical folders will probably be a better choice over Chinese Rope Dart. If you want to start competing on the NASKA weapons circuit...then you probably want to take some Okinawan Kobudo, tumbling lessons, learn to scream at the top of your lungs, and get someone to help you put together movements that will look cool when accompanied by music from the 'Mortal Kombat' soundtrack. My point is simple...once you understand the context of YOUR needs/wants/desires in the realm of martial weaponry...you will have answered your own question. You don't need anyone else's opinion, encouragement, or PERMISSION. 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