Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:07:01 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #51 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: kuk sool (Michael Whalen) 2. KATU now USAITF (t.metzner1) 3. RE: Weapons stuff (Rick Clark) 4. Belt Technique (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 5. TO RUDY NO SUBJECT (Richard Tomlinson) 6. Weapons stuff (JR Hilland) 7. The grapevine (Klaas Barends) 8. Re: Weapons stuff (Ray Terry) 9. Re: The grapevine (Ray Terry) 10. weapons training (George Peters) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:46:03 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: kuk sool Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gordon, Masters Terry & Rudy have done a good job of explaining the basic concepts of this art. I personally find it to be extremely rewarding. But realistically you have to see if that's what you're looking for. Self defense, competition , getting/staying in shape, mentally,physically ???? What do you want? I'm probably a little biased as it is the art I practice but I would follow Master Rudy's advice and go see for yourself. Take a couple of demo classes. Sit in the audience and watch the other classes and see how they're run. GO check out another art and compare. Just one note. If you do decide on KSW, go with a WKSA school as they seem to be more structured than the Hapkido/Kuk Sool mix. And again, that is just my opinion.... respectfully, michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "t.metzner1" To: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:43:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KATU now USAITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, KATU has changed its name to USA-ITF. The new website is www.usaitf.com. Grandmaster Hwang still heads our organization under Mr. Chang Ung of the ITF. We will be holding a tournament April 4-5 in Massachusetts for color belts and black belts. Check out the website. Tom Metzner --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Weapons stuff Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:04:30 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > But this is just not the case with many who teach a > > eclectic art. > > True. One well known example is Bruce Lee. Would he have needed to > create Jun Fan if he had learned Wing Chun. He only stayed long enough > to learn two of the three Wing Chun sets. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com Another example of someone who created a system from a short period of study (four or so years) of several martial arts was Jigoro Kano who founder Judo at the age of 21. Rick Clark "It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep be" Virgil www.ao-denkou.kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:21:42 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Belt Technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone mentioned info on belt technique being hard to find. Belt tech is a part of Jang Mu Hapkido's regular curriculum. An article on first-moving attacks with a belt can be accessed at: http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1999/sep99/2.html There is also an article in the Jan/2000 issue of Black Belt Magazine called Maximum Restraint (by Bill Darlas) that I wasn't able to find on the site, but some may have the issue to refer to. Sharon --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:33:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] TO RUDY NO SUBJECT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for what I feel is a "right on" comment about tradition, changes ect. I dont think stone tires would do well on my car too! I also would be very sad to think like native americans struggling to keep their language, thousands of years of traditional martial arts would fade away, it just can not be. My students are amazed as I keep reminding them that our traditional TKD techniques can be scientificly proven to their effectivness, but done only properly! Sure there are things this american woman can add to help students understand techniques, or focus more on some techniques more than others depending on one's body type or age, make up drills to keep it interesting but getting the point across, but I was taught traditional and stay so. I doubt I'll ever have a chance to use a flying side kick to kick someone off a horse in some big battle between war lords, it's nice to know how though! Oh and that spiritual phlosophy tennents stuff.....becomming a better human being...helping others..... treating all of each other with respect...ect.... boy does our modern world need alot of that. Rudy, your insights are always appreciated!!! sandy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "JR Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:44:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Weapons stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> The actor? I know nothing of Lee other than he died early in life and was very good at marketing. He was young, so I gather he was impatient.:) But I no nothing of him, wingchun or junfan. History is full of people who started their own martial art. Usually, the art goes away when the founder died. Or in such cases like aikido, looks nothing like the founders version of the art. The ones that stay are the ones that people ad to. Look at hapkido - Choi founded it, others such as Ji did not start their own art, but added to it. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:01:28 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The grapevine Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net About a week ago I met a somewhat older hapkido master during a gathering. He didn't speak English very well (it isn't my mother tongue either) and I don't speak Korean very well, so it was hard to really conversate with eachother. Anyhow he came up with this story. Somewhere during the late sixties/early seventies the president of a big company in Korea (Daewoo?) wanted to do business with an Arab prince. It was hard to actually get in touch, but because one of the bodyguards was a Korean hapkido practioner he did get in touch with them, and managed to make a lot of money. He decided to 'reward' the hapkido community, but noticed it was quite a mess (allready :-). He came up with the plan of making a demonstration team that would travel the world and introduce hapkido outside of Korea. But the organisations would have to unite. So a lot of hapkido master got together to get this thing of the ground. Ji Han Jae would be the head of the demonstration team, and talented students from all over the country would come to Seoul and train together. The best would get picked and form the demo team. I all winds down to this. Ji Han Jae got money from people who wanted to be in this demoteam. Others got frustrated, formed their own orgs. And the hapkido world ended up being an even bigger mess. I am not using the best grammar here, and it is kind of sort and lacks any kind of proof for this. For me it is just a story I heard, until someone could verify it or of course can proof that the story is complete nonsense?? It would kinda explain why the two seperate hapkido orgs. who existed at that time got together and later went their own way again. But ofcourse there could be other reasons for that as well. If there is someone with a better reason, please let me know. It is in no way that I want to take down GM Ji Han Jae with this. I just would like to know the truth. If it would make a person look bad, that's a pitty, but we've ALL made mistakes in the past and probably will make more mistakes in the future. I just don't see a reason for hiding our mistakes. -- Kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Weapons stuff To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:19:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > .... Look at hapkido - > Choi founded it, others such as Ji did not start their own art, but added to > it. Well, not so sure about that. Choi founded the Korean version of Aiki-Jujutsu. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The grapevine To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:21:57 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am not using the best grammar here, and it is kind of sort and lacks > any kind of proof for this. For me it is just a story I heard, until > someone could verify it or of course can proof that the story is complete > nonsense?? > > It would kinda explain why the two seperate hapkido orgs. who existed at that > time got together and later went their own way again. But ofcourse there > could be other reasons for that as well. > If there is someone with a better reason, please let me know. Those two orgs being ??? The Kidohwe and what is now the KHF? Wasn't Gm Ji involved in the formation of both? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:26:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] weapons training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry, Master Timmerman, Bruce,et al: I think where I was coming from is I study TSD MDK as a weaponless art and would like to perhaps broaden my horizons. We have knife and sword defense, but no instruction in what to do with the darn thing once you have it, we have bong hyung but no bong sparring or defense. My son asked to train for these reasons or if the threat of multiple attackers was encountered, one could use a weapon to defend oneself, and if you recall he was directed to a master that has a school many hours away for this and told he must train within our org. There are some very competent instructors that reside within 30 minutes of my home, some of which claim to use a Korean style. Since this is NOT part of the TSD cirriculum where we study, why would it matter where or what one learns except the stroking of an ego or perhaps fattening the "wrong" coffers? I must admit that there is a definite point in the preservation of KMA weapons and I will most definitely try to work within this spectrum. I also realize my responsibility to only teach TSD as I was taught, not to include anything from the "outside". You have all expressed some very valid points and I appreciate this more than you know. If you recall a past post, I lost a great training partner (my son) because I did not investigate these avenues in the past while blindly following the tenet of only working within the org. There is an old master in our area who perhaps put it best so I could understand when he told me "to be told to give blind loyalty and to always accomodate the wishes of the school while the school will not reciprocate in any way, the organization becomes a cult, not a school." Master Timmerman, Poh Bahk Sool? I hope you will bring this closer to Pittsburgh some day, or perhaps I will have to make a "pilgrimage". I would love to try this. Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest