Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:47:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #53 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Weapons stuff (JR Hilland) 2. Loyalty or Cult (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Grapevine (Brian Beach) 4. RE: TO RUDY NO SUBJECT (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Uniform_stuff_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Expanding_horizons......?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Some Hapkido/Kuk Sool videos (Christopher Spiller) 8. Hapkiyusul stuff (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "JR Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:25:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Weapons stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I am not going to contradict what every teacher I have had over the past 29 years have said. Nor his 8th student, who told tell us through Dr. Kimm's translation that Choi founded hapkido and Ji lit the match. Then there is Choi's own tombstone in Korea. Although I recognize the Chinese text for hapkido as hum-chi-tao, I do wish we had someone on this group that could translate the rest of the headstone. I have pictures at http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/doju.htm. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:34:32 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Loyalty or Cult Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry for hitting the send button before the topic on my last post Ray. George writes: > I lost a great training partner (my son) because I did not investigate > these avenues in the past while blindly following the tenet of only > working within the org. There is an old master in our area who perhaps > put it best so I could understand when he told me "to be told to give > blind loyalty and to always accomodate the wishes of the school while > the school will not reciprocate in any way, the organization becomes a > cult, not a school." Master Timmerman, Poh Bahk Sool? I hope you will > bring this closer to Pittsburgh some day, or perhaps I will have to > make a "pilgrimage". I would love to try this. Hello George: I am sorry to hear you lost your partner on the count of misguided loyalty. I too was a victim of following too long without reciprocal respect, and I lost a significant number of students because of it (some had been with me for 23 years). In addition I lost a dozen years or so, just because I wanted to be a loyal man unlike so many who jump from org. to org. In the end I left anyway, because to stay would have meant quitting the art altogether. Sometimes we just have to go with our gut instinct when we realize it (and before it does so much harm). Today, I feel I am just as loyal as I would hope my students to be, but I never want to rob them of their right to seek what is best for them. In fact, I encourage freedom from politics. As far as the Poh Bahk Sool, I hope you can make it to any one of the seminars I listed a while back. Love to work with enthusiastic people. Thanks for the kind comments Sandy:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:37:44 -0500 From: Brian Beach To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Grapevine Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't know if this is the connection but GM Kim, Jin Pal taught the Prince of Bahrain (now the King -there is Royalty in the Hapkido family!), and the palace guards in 1977. If this the connection I highly doubt if he would speak against DuJu Ji if those allegations are true. But I'll ask about the demo team part. http://www.jinpalhapkidodc.com/bahrain.html Brian Beach --__--__-- Message: 4 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] TO RUDY NO SUBJECT Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:25:07 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net enjoyed your comments. I am really enjoying my TKD training -----Original Message----- From: Richard Tomlinson [mailto:edandmikes@goes.com] Sent: 06 February 2004 22:33 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TO RUDY NO SUBJECT Thanks for what I feel is a "right on" comment about tradition, changes ect. I dont think stone tires would do well on my car too! I also would be very sad to think like native americans struggling to keep their language, thousands of years of traditional martial arts would fade away, it just can not be. My students are amazed as I keep reminding them that our traditional TKD techniques can be scientificly proven to their effectivness, but done only properly! Sure there are things this american woman can add to help students understand techniques, or focus more on some techniques more than others depending on one's body type or age, make up drills to keep it interesting but getting the point across, but I was taught traditional and stay so. I doubt I'll ever have a chance to use a flying side kick to kick someone off a horse in some big battle between war lords, it's nice to know how though! Oh and that spiritual phlosophy tennents stuff.....becomming a better human being...helping others..... treating all of each other with respect...ect.... boy does our modern world need alot of that. Rudy, your insights are always appreciated!!! sandy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:26:12 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Uniform_stuff_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mac: Thanks for the reminder. In case others are wondering what this is about, the last time I went to Jackson I flew. Usually I travel light but this time I decided to check my luggage. It was a single bag and just a bit more than I usually carry-on. The result was that my bag was mis-sent and it took about a day to catch up to me in Jackson. Pretty embarrassing to have to run around and beg/borrow/steal a uniform to get out on the mat. Moral of the story? Travel light--- and carry-on your bag. A uniform and belt, spare clean shirt, toiletries, socks and underwear. Just about anything else you could need is available from JR when you get there. BTW to Rudy: Do you mind if I bring my camcorder to capture that rope material you mentioned? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:51:52 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Expanding_horizons......?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear George: "...... I think where I was coming from is I study TSD MDK as a weaponless art and would like to perhaps broaden my horizons. We have knife and sword defense, but no instruction in what to do with the darn thing once you have it, we have bong hyung but no bong sparring or defense......" In some ways this is tricky, and--- then again--- in some ways it is not. I'm not sure I can make this all that clear in 25 words or less but bear with me a moment. IMVHO we train in Korean martial arts for some reason. Somehow training in Korean arts tends to satisfy that reason better than most other arts. I advocate for learning the basics--- the fundamentals--- of those arts and then build on those fundamentals approximating the Korean way of doing things rather than introducing some other system and mixing the two. OK, so thats the foundation. The next step is what you do with it. After learning the foundation and working to do things in a way consistent with those foundations you may find something is lacking. In Hapkido we don't have as much ground work as some people would like. After learning what Hapkido has to offer the next step is to add things that work for you personally. You don't turn around and represent your personal system as "Hapkido" because it is not. Its you personal system. Another take on this is the WAY that you train. Hwa Rang Kum-Bup in which I train has only 8 paired encounters between partners and these are highly stylized. I am working on expanding the the use of these pre-aranged encounters into something more closely resembling one-steps in TKD/TSD. The material and protocol are the same just expanded to be a bit more spontaneous. Now, what does this have to do with your post? There is a difference between what you learn in class and how you train with it to meet your own personal needs. If your teacher focuses exclusively on forms and one-step sparring there isn't anything wrong with asking to add something or doing it on your own time. I wouldn't press the teacher to change his curriculum to suit your needs. Thats when you need to consider if the art you are training in is meeting your goals as originally conceived. Finally, there are events such as the up-coming International in Jackson. The events are worth their weight in gold but it is very much on you how you use them. Some people come to them to socialize and people-watch. Some people come with an agenda to address by having the opportunity to meet and greet authorities from different backgrounds and experiences. A big mistake is to come and simply attend the various modules, get your picture taken and say hi to JR and Wayne. What you want to do is engage people--- lots of people--- and get them talking about what they do and why. This up- coming Internationale is the 20th and promises to have reps from at least 4 Hapkido organizations, and I can't guess how many different TSD/TKD schools. If you need an atmosphere that can help you understand how to use what you are learning rather than how to cut and fit what you are learning in combinatin with something else, this is the place. FWIW. BTW: If you still don't know what to do with that sword--- I am working my tail off to Jackson. I just have some things yet to iron out. I am currently organizing the WHRKA Kum-Bup manual and while I don't have it finished just yet, I think I can give you plenty to work on. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:54:31 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Some Hapkido/Kuk Sool videos Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just thought some of you might be interested in the web site I found. It has severall videos, looks like a Hapkido demonstration in Korea as well as a Kuk Sool demo. http://www.hapkido.re.kr/default/MOVIE_2.HTM Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:31:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkiyusul stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > << Aiki-Jujutsu.>>> > > I am not going to contradict what every teacher I have had over the past 29 > years have said. Nor his 8th student, who told tell us through Dr. Kimm's > translation that Choi founded hapkido and Ji lit the match. .... Yes, Hapkido is a very well known name that many claim. To be more accurate, Gm Choi called his art Hapkiyusul. 16 strikes, 16 kicks, etc. Once the name Hapkido became better known than Hapkiyusul, Choi would frequently refer to his art as Hapkido. Yes, Hapkiyusul is probably 70% (plus or minus) of what we typically think of as Hapkido. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest