Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:13:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #57 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re:_Oh_YEAH (Ray Terry) 2. RE: Re: Young founders (Rick Clark) 3. Re: Weapons (Ray Terry) 4. Rope techniques (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re: Weapons (Jye nigma) 6. Re: Weapons (Jye nigma) 7. Pan Gong Song (FRANK CLAY) 8. Re: RE: weapons stuff (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:05:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:_Oh_YEAH Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Dear Ray: > > "......Sim Mu Do may be a fine group and SONG Pan-gon may be a fine > master, but > remember that he was at one time in bed with Hackworth as the Korean > head of the KMAIA group. However he has now come clean and said that it > was always a farse (more or less) and never really existed, esp in > Korea....." > > Would I EVER like to have THAT in print somewhere!!!! FWIW, when one joined the KMAIA they received a form with Hackworth's name listed as the international president and Pan'gon Song's listed as Korean president. Yes, I joined so as to get official letterhead, etc, to fax back to Korea for their comment. More fwiw... no one had ever heard of it. When I met Hack he mentioned something about Song being "in charge" of the KMAIA. I replied that he (Hack) was shown as the international head with Song as the Korean head. Hack indicated that to a Korean only Korea mattered, the rest of the world did not, thus Song was the official head of the KMAIA. Later, after Song was no longer involved w/the KMAIA he indicated that the group never really existed in Korea. That his name was only used on the forms and that his name is no longer to be involved in any way with said group. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Young founders Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:04:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Klaas Barends [mailto:barends@opurk.nl] > By the way Judo isn't a martial art, it is a sport...!!! > And there is nothing wrong with the sport of Judo. Out of curiosity what makes Judo a sport and not a martial art in your opinion? Other than the obvious difference in techniques, what is the difference between Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Kendo or other "Do" arts that would make one a martial art and the other a martial sport? > mvg. Klaas Barends Rick Clark "It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep be" Virgil www.ao-denkou.kai.org --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Weapons To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:41:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "In my opinion, one can't fully defend against something unless they > know how to use it. Anyone disagree?" > > Jye, > > I'll stir the pot. Let's say I teach my 16- colorbelts escrima/kahli, > but never advance them to the knife and machette. I'd say that person > with 8-10 years of escrima training could defend against a machette > because they understand the weapon and the basic motions in weilding > the weapon. Even though technically they have never trained with the > machette. > > Jump in Ray? Jump. In the case of eskrima, not all eskrimas are taught alike. Some styles teach blade oriented techniques using a stick. It contributes to a longer life for your training partner. Others teach that a stick is just a stick, nothing more. IMO, one is more likely to develop blade skills w/o blade training by using the first approach than using the second. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:26:47 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rope techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > If you have time, can you comment on the source of your rope material. Hello Bruce: I learned rope techniques from both GM Pak In Shyuk and Suh In Hyuk. I expect they learned it from their Instructors; however, I never did ask. I guess I was too eager to learn the stuff while I was younger, and now I'm more interested in the historical aspects of martial arts I am no longer able to ask. One source has passed away, and I'm not in good terms with the other. For some reason the saying "we get schmart too old" comes to mind:) Sorry I can't help you, but I do promise to help you learn them. Then, somewhere down the road, one of your students can say: "My master learned rope techniques from an old decrepit Dutchman". Wouln't that throw a monkey wrench in Korean martial art history:) BTW, I'll save a copy for you. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:55:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Weapons To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My philosophy is slightly different. Become what or who you are defending against. I think there may be many different approaches to this, many of which can be successful. Some weapons like a knife or sword can be defended against without having to know how to use the weapon in theory because there are many methods of using those weapons, for instance kenjutsu is different than wu tang dragon swordplay or european fencing. But as for weapons such as a three sectional staff it becomes hard to defend against if never exposed to it. Now where the skilled martial artist such as yourself can easily adapt to different weapons is to be familiar with which catergory the weapon falls under; long- mid-short ranges, throwing, cutting, smashing, piercing, and throwing. *Each system may have varying names for the catergories So if someone understands the caterogory (function of weapon) then they can adapt. I think my original statement may have been left to broad. Maybe I should have said newcomers should learn how to use the weapon to defend or better defend against it. Jye ojakwan@yahoo.com> wrote: I'll stir the pot. Let's say I teach my 16- colorbelts escrima/kahli, but never advance them to the knife and machette. I'd say that person with 8-10 years of escrima training could defend against a machette because they understand the weapon and the basic motions in weilding the weapon. Even though technically they have never trained with the machette. Jump in Ray? Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:59:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Weapons To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can see that. Many weapons mimic others as far as function. I learned swordplay, and nunchukus with a staff. I learned twin short staffs/double weaponry with butterfly swords. So by learning the butterfly swords I have learned twin weapons and can up ones I have never used pretty easily. Jye Ray Terry wrote: Jump. In the case of eskrima, not all eskrimas are taught alike. Some styles teach blade oriented techniques using a stick. It contributes to a longer life for your training partner. Others teach that a stick is just a stick, nothing more. IMO, one is more likely to develop blade skills w/o blade training by using the first approach than using the second. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:10:50 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pan Gong Song Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, A word on Pan Gong Song... He was originally Mi Yi's teacher, and Fred Gommels was a KMAIA member. Once Fred and Song both figured out what was going on, they jetted. Fred is a good man, and served as the principal of a Christian school. They do not come much more conservative or honorable. Pan Gong Song disowned the Hackworth's. I have never met Master Song, but I know Gommels. He left because people were being promoted early and there was no substance in their knowledge. They were basically buying rank, and he had ethical issues with that. He converted to CDK and still holds the same rank he did when I met him, Oh Dan. Simmudo, the way it was explained to me by Master Gommels, is meant to be a bridge where a Kukkiwon guy who has done only sport, may pick up the art side and implement it. Of course I do not do Simmudo, so I may be way off base here. Hope this helps. They got out of bed, when they realized it was full of lice. You can't ask for much more than that. Frank _________________________________________________________________ Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:17:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: weapons stuff To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes you are right. The key is knowledge. So to gain that knowledge you can go my route and gain experience by training with it, or go another route and learn about the weapons function. Now at some point, after learning certain weapons you'll recognize the catergory as it pertains to the weapon's function. A sword will fall into a catergory based on it being a cutting, slicing, stabbing, chopping weapon, and by it's fighting range. Now in my experience, learning forms with a weapon is cool but actually sparring with weapons was much much more different. Prior to that, when I first started sparring with weapons it was intimidating because of the clashing and banging of weapons. The actually feel takes getting used too, but is very beneficial. Jye luke rose wrote: Mr. Jye nigma stated,"In my opinion, one can't fully defend against something unless they know how to use it. Anyone disagree?" I disagree somewhat. I think the basis of your opinion is true. In my opinion if you are using the weapon and defending against that weapon you need to know how to use it. However if you are aware of the function of the weapon and its capabilities you can defend against it quite well without of ever using it before. I have very limited weapons training but, I have had to defend against weapons in testing that I never used before. As long as I relate the movement of the weapon to the movement of a particular body technique and remember the properties of the weapon (such as a sharp edge) I can defend against it with a good rate of success. I also don't believe anyone can ever fully defend against anything. You can always be better and so can the use of the weapon in my opinion. However, the more experience you have with the weapon the more you can anticipate its use. So, in that area I agree with you Mr. Jaye enigma. Thank you for the statement! It made me think a lot about defending against weapons and has inspired me to get some more training in them. Expanding my mind, Luke --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest