Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:01:50 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #64 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: sparring (Jye nigma) 2. As Morphous said (tim walker) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Art_vs_Sport?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Lets call them Martial Sparts -so we don't have to decide (Brian Beach) 5. RE: Re: Art vs Sport (Rick Clark) 6. Re: red light (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 7. Sparring (Erik Hanson) 8. Re: Master Gommels (luke rose) 9. re: Micheal Whalen on roots (George Peters) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:30:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] sparring To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My approach is to increase speed. Learn to intercept your opponent's strike(s) versus blocks. Learn to close the gap quickly. Work on improving your economy of motion utlizing parrying, evading, etc. Then the best thing you can learn to do is relax. This will allow you to move much better and you wont be so stiff. If you would like more detailed info or training methods let me know. Jye freddie bishop wrote: My son and I have recently began training in WTF/USTU style tae kwon do. Last year my son was training at a dojang affiliated with the KATU organization. What advice can anyone give to aid me in sparring success. I have found that my taller opponents have a much larger advantage over me, I'm 5 feet tall, they including the instructor are all over 6 feet tall. My sons' former instructor is my size but I just can't afford him. Adding to my height disadvantage is my stiff body. Where can I find information specifically dealing with tactics and a good flexibility program or any other help you all think I need. Sincerly Fred __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:51:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] As Morphous said Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I thought it was the dormouse, and he said, "Feed your head." Same same. Master Mac is probably right:) Yours, timo --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:44:09 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Art_vs_Sport?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rcik: "......Ok a new term has been added to the mix, you have now added combat. I think the original question was something like: "what differentiates martial arts from a martial sport". I should expect even 400 years ago instructors were teaching students to moderate a technique during practice so as not to require vast numbers of students that would take time to recover from injury due to the application of techniques......". We seem to be on very different wavelengthes on this issue. To my way of thinking "combat" is not a "new" term. To my way of thinking the Hapkido artsare about combat if nothing else. It is the learning to dedicate ones self to learning nasty techniques, learning to integrate the O-Gae into ones' life, and learning to develop good judgement about where and when to actually use the things one learns that develops the Character one associates with KMA. Sport is about a protracted meeting between partners such that one is able to compare and contrast their skills. There are rules to make sure that neither person is intentionally seriously injured and that a reasonable amount of time is allowed to drag out the encounter so that everyone and their mother has a chance to compare the prowess of the participants. I think the confusion arises from the way in which modern martial arts are taught. People have families and livelihoods and have to get up the next morning. It was not always so. It may interest you to know that not a few MA practitioners were doctors and bonesetters for a reason. If you get REAL curious, check out the person associated with the origins of Ba Qua Chang. Tradition states that he was one nasty person who was not above killing a student now and then to make a point. Oh, and those "exams" folks took to get promoted in the army--- you know the ones in which candidates demonstated there prowess against each other. Maybe you need to check out how often people got the chance to meet their ancestors in those little get-togethers. One other point about modern training techniques. There is a whole lot more posturing and dress-up than there used to be. People want to be bad- asses but would just as soon not have to make the committment to train to produce such a result. As a consequence, as long as all that is being dealt with is "challenge-level" conflicts Mr. BB can show everyone a great demo. The problem comes in when Mr. BB has to face down a committed adversary who is well-past blind with rage and can no longer spell "restraint" or "self-control". The fight does NOT go down like you think it does and the pavement is littered with deluded morons who were just positive that new 1st BB made them Superman. Yeah, right! Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:11:52 -0500 From: Brian Beach To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Lets call them Martial Sparts -so we don't have to decide Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rick, Ok, this it unless you start talking about my mom. Craig - good rant. On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 05:47 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Ok no problem here about the "Do" arts coming from the "Jitsu" stuff > as a > 'general' statement. But if you go by the party line - Tae Kwon Do was > developed from Tae Kyun, Kwon Bup, Tang Soo . . . . . so I guess > strictly > speaking these are not "Jitsu" as "Jitsu" is Japanese in origin. And > if you > chose to believe that TKD came from these roots then the "Do" in TKD > did not > come from "Jitsu". I know this gets to be word games but in a way > being a > bit more precise can make a topic a bit less muddied. Tang Soo Do is just the Korean pronunciation of Karate-do. It has evolved since but thats its origin. If you prefer the Korean term for Jitsu, its Sool. Budo = Mudo and Bu Jitsu = Mu sool. Same concept martial tecniques (jitsu/sool) evolved in to martial way (do). > > Once again I get back to a point I made a few posts back. All of the > modern > arts at least as far as I can see make some kind of decision on the > body of > techniques that will be used in the art. Again, In the context of the art. Punches to the face are part of the curriculum of TSD/TKD. Punches to the face in KKW TKD - no. Sport. > All of the arts make a conscious > decision to control techniques to avoid injury in practice. I really > don't > know of any style that does not do so. I go back to you confusing or swapping control with legality. You can't flip flop on your definitions it makes good judo but bad logic. If no technique is forbidden then there are no legal techniques. If you say that technique is forbidden then there is legal and illegal techniques. Controlling techniques to avoid injury is just common sense. To paraphrase and/or misquote Master West " if you drop a big rock on him - thats good hapkido" > > Perhaps you might say that some aspects of Judo and TKD are developing > more > sporting aspects. But to say that Judo or TKD is a martial sport and > it is > not a martial art may be argued by some in those arts. > Perhaps the terms Judo and TKD are too broad. I think I'm going to start investigating the martial applications of TiddlyWinks. Brian "don't you be talking 'bout my momma" Beach --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Art vs Sport Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:52:58 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, > From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] > Dear Rcik: Rick > > "......Ok a new term has been added to the mix, you have now added > combat. I think the original question was something like: "what > differentiates martial arts from a martial sport". > We seem to be on very different wavelengthes on this issue. To my way of > thinking "combat" is not a "new" term. To this thread it's a new term. We had been talking in terms of sport vs. martial art. > To my way of thinking the Hapkido artsare about combat if nothing else. Here is where some of the problem lies. Hapkido (as are TKD, TSD, Karate, etc.) have various degrees of sport, martial art, physical or moral development, other aspects not mentioned . . . . . as has been pointed out to me there is a sport component to Hapkido. When I was in Korea back in 1969 and 1970 the Hapkido I encountered did not have any competition that I was aware of, but it may have been there. So because there is a sport element in Hapkido is it a martial art or is it a sport? From my experience I would class Hapkido as a martial art. What got me on this thread was the assertion that Judo was a sport not a martial art (I forget who posted that). Personally I fell Judo is both with different percentages of sport or martial art depending on the school, teacher, or individual. I think a broad statement that Judo is not a martial art was a bit broad and did not reflect my view that Judo is a martial art, developed physical and mental aspects of your life, and last as a sport. At least that's how I was trained in the art. If I were to be forced to pick out a system that is more sport than martial art I would have to pick KKW TKD. But even here I am uneasy in making such an assertion, as I am sure there are KKW schools that practice more as a martial art than sport. > It may interest you to know that not a few > MA practitioners were doctors and bonesetters for a reason. I have been in the martial arts long enough to be aware of that. > One other point about modern training techniques. There is a whole lot > more posturing and dress-up than there used to be. Having started the martial arts in 1962 I have seen a change in the arts as taught here in the US. I have been lucky enough to have seen the development of martial arts in other places as well. > Bruce Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:20:46 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: red light Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "WOW, that's what I like about the DD. You learn something interesting and new every day. After serious thought (and consulting extensively with my psychic) I know now that I must make this journey to find the roots of my art and learn some new techniques. Yes, it could get a little dirty and possibly painful at times but feel that I am capable of the exhausting task at hand. Will send pic's." i am excited that i may now include this on my martial arts resume. you see, when i was the tender age of five, i visited the red light district there. we were vacationing and apparently the only hotel we could find was in the red light district. i remember being drug through the streets with a hand over my eyes although i could still see well enough to know something was awry. i suppose i can now say that i actually have visited the birthplace of KSW and have been studying KMAs since i was five. wow! take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Erik Hanson" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:25:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To double up on what the others have said. It's always been a theme with my training that if you are shorter than your opponent use speed, if you are taller, use distance. Ring control is vital to winning a match. I've done USTU sparring and it's usually the guy who is able to stay in the center that wins. Sort of a mock "King of the Hill" thing. To keep him out of the center try to throw a series of kicks and then move out of range, whether that be in or out variety is the key. This will wear your opponent down and frustrate him because all of his kicks are falling past or short. Trying to get into the center is trickier but doable. Using angles and moving in and out of range are your best bets. The idea is to move him out of the center, which will make him have to move all around the ring and he gets tired. I hope this helps some. I am plagued with youth so I can't help you out on the stretching thing. Erik Hanson1st Dan TKD _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:27:30 -0800 (PST) From: luke rose To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Gommels Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Garret DeWitt wrote, "I also know Master Fred Gommels and Grandmaster Pan Gon Song. I have known Master Gommels and have been able to train with him for several years now. It never concerned me about Master Gommels "backing." When I first met Master Gommels, I knew intuitively that he was NOT happy with the KMAIA. Whatever his reasons, they are his own and although he and I have conversed on these issues, I have never crossed the line into Master Gommels' personal life or concerns about the KMAIA. Master Gommels and Grandmaster Pan Gon Song have always been up front, honest, men of integrity and great character. Master Clay said it all, "They do not come much more conservative or honorable." I agree with all your opinions except one. The "backing" issue. I have my own school and in younger years I followed blindly. I got burned. IMHO, respect and trust need to be earned and not just simply given away. There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing out there. I'm simply trying to protect my certification and business. I do respect and trust Master Gommels. He is one of the most wonderful men I have had the honor to talk to and receive training form. I was also unwise in making my hasty decision years ago. I admit that openly. As a professional in the arts I feel I need to know where my certification comes from. When a student looks at my certification on the wall, which new students often do, I need to be confident of that certification and what it stands for. I will never blindly follow again! These are only my opinions and are not meant to offend. Since you have been training with Master Gommels for a while and I'm renewing my relationship with him, maybe I'll have the pleaser of meeting you someday. Respectfully, Luke --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:33:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: Micheal Whalen on roots Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir: I salute your enthusisam on discovering the "roots of your art and wish to beg a boon. That is , prithee,Sir, might I not accompany you in your quest so that we might pilgrimage together, so as to have safety in numbers and a like mind to discuss the the wonderment of our journey as it bears fruition. Respectfully, George Peters _________________________________________________________________ Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and beyond. http://special.msn.com/network/celebrateromance.armx --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest