Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:36:06 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #72 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Jye nigma on "star drill... (George Peters) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Star_Drill?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. Personal Thoughts (bruce.sims) 4. RE: Martial Sport vs. Martial Art - Part One (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 5. RE: TGT Homepage (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 6. TGT (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 7. sparring star drill (Richard Tomlinson) 8. TGT (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Official TGT Website (Rudy Timmerman) 10. Re: Re:_Star_Drill (Jye nigma) 11. RE: Re:_Star_Drill (Jason Thomas) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:03:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jye nigma on "star drill... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir: This aterisk is also part of the TSD emblem, its meaning is about the sip sam seh. Eight directions, five stances, and how to approach all of the concievable conditions, as discussed in the previous posts. My org does not teach about this any longer, much to my chagrin, and I learned of this from a Kung Fu master I am friends with, and also from a senior who studied long ago. This knowledge helped my self defense and sparring efforts immensely. Now this symbol is used to mean all the directions from which TSD is spreading out, or to designate the directions of the forms. Respectfully, George Peters P.S. There was a very nice section on this on the www.warrior-scholar.com site. _________________________________________________________________ Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:35:38 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Star_Drill?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jye: ".....Hi. I never heard of anyone doing it on raised posts. By raised posts are you talking about plum blossom poles? I have exercises for those as well...." Yes, thanks. For the life of me I could not remember the name for them. Needless to say, such a set-up is not quite as mobile though I suppose one could get the same benefit using cinder blocks albeit VERY carefully! :-) Are there special drills that you do with these? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "bruce.sims" To: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:36:49 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Personal Thoughts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Master Bae: I extend to you my deepest and most sincere gratitude for your letter of February 12th. as posted here in the Dochang Digest. This is often a difficult venue for expressing ones' thoughts, and the difference in culture and language do not make it any easier. I believe, speakng for myself, that both your thoughts and feelings came across time and distance to give me much to reflect on. I hope you will be patient as I try to share with you a few of my own thoughts regarding some of the matters your letter touched on. I believe you were very accurate in characterizing Mister Hackworth as shrewd. It does not take great intelligence to lie or misrepresent, nor does it take any special gift to injure or create chaos. Anyone who has seen a small child scatter an orderly stack of wooden blocks knows this. Further, I am not so naive as to pretend that the World is a place where people of ill-will are in small numbers. In fact, it is often for this very reason that people of like minds band together in associations and federations. In return for membership loyalty, and fees, people who come together in these groups have certain expectations of the people who represent themselves as leaders of these organizations. It is my considered opinion that the pain and confusion that you have heard in the last two years is the result of a growing dis-satisfaction with the manner in which organizational leadership has continually and repeatedly failed in performing its duties save only for those that support a flow of money from the membership to the leadership. It would be very convenient to identify Mr. Hackworth as the problem, but in fact his manner of doing business is only a symptom of a much larger and deeper disease. In your letter you wrote, "When we receive Dan certificates which are issued by many masters of outside of Korea for transfer or higher promotion, many times we are embarrassed by them. Many of those certificates are very high ranking, like 5th, 6th even 8th or 9th Dan. How you could react in that situation? ....." To a person such as myself the answer is painfully simple. You send the application back stating that the applicant has not met the requirements of this particular organization. Such a decision takes courage and integrity. To do this may well alienate that particular school or teacher. Another approach might be to state the maximum rank you WOULD be willing to provide and include a suggested curriculum for achieving the next rank. Again, such an action would take character and integrity, and for your effort you can rightfully expect the respect and loyalty of your other members. What I have written does not take a lot of deep thinking and I suspect you know these answers well before I have written them here. I suspect that it is not the method you are in need of but some way to be right and correct AND have the money as well. Here in the United States we have many people who enjoy bragging about high rank and fancy titles. In part this is because we are such a young country and easily impressed with such exotic things. Once again, I think the membership of an organization expects that the leadership will model good behavior where these things are concerned. It is very difficult not to be taken by such trappings when people here in the States see and hear of Korean leadership who us such titles and require others to use such titles. To make matters worse, it is not at all unusual to have Korean masters make demands regarding travel, stipends and honorariums, hotel accomodations and limitations on how their students can interact with other organizations. Such behavior is both ignorant and arrogant which are two qualities that I would have thought these leaders would have conqueored through their long years of training, ne? Nor does it help to look at the long list of leaders such as you posted quite recently and see that with very few exceptions, all of the leadership are Korean or of Korean surnames. Can it be that leadership is of a mind that only Koreans are truely acceptable in decision-making or policy-making positions? One last thought, concerns your comment regarding your own expectations. In your letter you wrote that "When President Oh and his retinue, including me, went to Master Hackworth Dojang, we didn't know who were there. Before and after that event, I asked him so many times the list of people who came there, and still I haven't got that. I think he wants to be a middle man for many reasons. And that is why the KHF couldn't send any thank message to the participants. President Oh and his retinue were there to test Dan rank, not for any seminar. That was why we left there early and didn't show up there. And we thought people there were trained under KHF masters and expected people wear the KHF uniform.....etc.,etc.". Here in the US it is very common to have miscommunications, however we overcome this by having a written agreement beforehand stating what each side expects to do and be a part of. You are a very well-educated and intelligent person and I find it very difficult to believe that you would participate in a historic event such as Oh See Lims' visit to the US and NOT have everything defined well in advance. It is well to plead ignorance, or miscommunication, language difficulties and time constraints. All of these are fine excuses. You, however, are not in a position of leadership to proffer excuses for failing to execute your duties as your position required. Your failing has contributed to yet one more in a litany of failures by Korean leadership to meet their responsibilities to non-Korean membership. The result is even further alienation of members in your fine organization and an increase in suspicion that you will continue to act in a fashion which serves your interests and concerns well before that of membership. In closing I would like to share a small experience for my years as a High School History teacher, and I think you will appreciate how this compares to your situation. When teching school, I think every teacher secretly wants to be liked by his students, just as you want to be accepted and respected by your membership. I have seen some teachers become very lax with their students in order to be like and well-thought of. Oddly enough it is these same teachers who are quickly disrespected and derided by their students. On the other hand those teachers who use a firm but fair hand may not be liked at the immediate moment, but are often thought of fondly much later when students think back. I cannot know what others think, but for myself, I, too, would have much greater respect for a leader who takes the path of fairness and firmness, one who abides by a high standard and requires it of others, then for a person who is regularly taking the easier way. For your assistance you have many good people to help you in your efforts, but the actual use of these people and the standards of your organization are up to you. I wish you well in your endeavors. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims Midwest Hapkido --__--__-- Message: 4 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Martial Sport vs. Martial Art - Part One Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:30:04 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What you are saying is my point exactly. when e are met with a real life conflict, we have the fight or flight option. due to the strenuous level of training that we undertake, I could happily out run most people or hit and run! sport and sparing is good for co-ordination, conditioning and muscle memory amongst other things. -----Original Message----- From: Stovall, Craig [mailto:CStovall@nucorar.com] Sent: 10 February 2004 20:04 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Sport vs. Martial Art - Part One <<>> Warning: rant to follow. There's much wisdom in this very short paragraph of Ray's. Unfortunately, most people who read it will ignore it. It all goes back to that "aliveness" thing that I preach about from time-to-time, and aliveness is too bitter a pill for most to swallow (per my experience). It's much easier to throw around my cooperative buddies all the time under the premise that if they didn't "go with it" they would have broken 15 bones and ruptured 2 major organs due to my "dangerous technique". Whatever... I know people love to divide martial activity into "sport" camps, and "art" camps. Per my own personal experience, it is an artificial distinction most often used as a strawman for those who want to push the "superiority" of their particular approach. The divide doesn't really exist (they are mostly one and the same, although most won't allow themselves to believe it). IMHO, "sport" (at its higher levels) embodies the very characteristics that supposedly only exist within the field of "art" (peak experience, adaptive creativity, self-expression, synthesis of methods, etc.) On the other side of the coin, "art" is at its most spectacular peak when brought into being by those things that can most often be found within the realm of "sport" (the crucible of competition, the necessity to meet or exceed objective standards, overcoming resistance, problem solving, cooperative effort, etc.). Personally, my present day martial activities lean toward those things that most folks in the martial arts community would define as "sport". You won't find me pretending to eagle-claw my over-cooperative "opponent" to death as they strike a dramatic pose in response to their easily countered, half-assed attack. Neither will you find me wasting my hours debating the relative merits of "thrusting vs slashing", or some such eternal subject of mental masturbation favored by those who long to be something that they have neither the ability or societal permission to become (read: some black-clad, knife-wielding, urban commando). At any rate, "sport" is a good thing, IMHO. No matter how much the "killa karate commandos" want to look down their nose at it, there is a value to the activity that transcends the physical techniques that are being employed. For me, it's not an argument of "eye gouges" versus "side kicks", or "breaking someone's neck" versus "tapping them with an arm bar". The heart of the question is this...what kind of a crucible do you want to place yourself in? Do you really think you're going to find yourself (much less better yourself) in the antiseptic atmosphere of 100% cooperative engagement? What "art" will you find (much less create) when the outcome is never in doubt (Jimmy grabs my sleeve, Jimmy goes flying, repeat, go home). These are simple questions, but their answers lie under VERY complex layers of context, utility, and personal psychology. It's an interesting debate, and one that I could talk about for a long time. Instead, I'll share my experience, and describe some of those things that I've observed and experienced from "martial sport" that transcend and carry over to activities far beyond the mat. This is the crucible that I have found. But, that will have to wait for part 2... CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:24:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TGT Homepage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mel, to have my picture taken with Masters West, Hodder, and Dr. Kimm is a great honor in itself. But to have one made the Tibetan Gopher and to train with him in Jackson was definitely one of those moments that I will be telling my grandchildren about for sure!! By looking at the pic at first glance it appears that his head is missing! Oh yeah, I forgot. That photo was taken AFTER Master West had him on the mat..... James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV http://www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:02:50 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TGT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Tim: Congratulation on your 5th Dan! I sure you will be a Grand Master in a short time as long as you stay loyal and send plenty of financial support to Dr. Dick Hashforth. You are smart to grab that Southern-Northern, VA rep position ASAP. When TGT takes off and it will, Dr. Dick Hashforth will be dividing the country by zip code. Do you plan to have seminars, videos and / or write a book on your TGT technique? TGT John From: "tim walker" To: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:51:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TGT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I had to see what all you guys were talking about with this Tibetan Gopher Tossing thing, so I went to the official website. Then I called the US Representative, Dr. Dick Hashforth, and he sold me a Charter Membership and promoted me to 5th Dan (so you don't think I just bought rank, I did have to verbally describe my technique in great detail over the phone). I'm saving up for because Dr. Hashforth told me I could soon be the Southern-Northern Virginia rep if I get my application fees in before the deadline. When Kip comes back to the States, I'm gonna see if he wants to open the first TGT Dojang north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Don't tell him, though. It's a surprise. Wish me luck! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:47:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] sparring star drill Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm going to buy some tape and try it out as soon as possible! Thanks Jye. sandy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:39:00 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TGT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Barry writes: > giant marmot bones have been found amongst the dinosaur remains > in southern Gobi desert, indicating that they have been around a very > long > time in one form or another (Farquhar E. Cartwright, 1937: > Paleontological > Studies in the Southern Gobi Desert II The Marmotosaurus pp223-237 Hello Barry: I think Bruce and I best read up on this, as Klaas is sure to ask us several questions before sending us the certificate. Unlike certificates that can be had in the swampy areas of the US, I am sure the new Dutch association will want to protect its integrity before sending theirs. I believe that the new Dutch org. recognizes the burrowing dog creatures found in other parts of the US as valid substitutes. BTW, Melinda. Because of the difficulties encountered in hiding heads in gopher holes in swampy areas, the FL rodents developed a new evasive routine that had them shoving their heads in "other" dark places. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:48:50 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Official TGT Website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mel writes: > excellent job, rudy....yes, that is a valid evasion tactic. Hello Melinda: Thanks, it is the very technique I learned from that venerable TGT champ JR himself. BTW, loved the new TGT website. The pics provided there are clearly indicate the depth of this awesome TGT team. It was about time that true TGT fans developed that worthy site, as the competition from the large FL rodents now kept as pets is ever threatening the survival of TRUE TGT the world over. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:15:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Star_Drill To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes. Traditionally the poles were very high about 5' tall, and you basically get on top of them and do your forms and/or spar. I have 2 methods for people who want to use them with their TKD TSD or kung fu. We'll just talk about the TSD/TKD. What you can use to get used to the "feel" are red bricks turned on the long side or the short side. You can set these up randomly or in a pattern. I would recommend placing them in the shape of your form. So then you can practice your forms on the bricks. *That's perfect for the folks who want a temporary training solution. For a permanent solution, you might want to invest in some of those white plastic poles from home depot. dig a hole in the ground and place them in the ground then fill the hollow portion with cement or dirt. I would make them at the maximum 6ft tall. I practice empty hand and weapons forms. Jye bsims@midwesthapkido.com wrote: Dear Jye: ".....Hi. I never heard of anyone doing it on raised posts. By raised posts are you talking about plum blossom poles? I have exercises for those as well...." Yes, thanks. For the life of me I could not remember the name for them. Needless to say, such a set-up is not quite as mobile though I suppose one could get the same benefit using cinder blocks albeit VERY carefully! :-) Are there special drills that you do with these? Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Jason Thomas" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re:_Star_Drill Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:29:40 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What diameter do you use/recommend for the bricks and/or poles? -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:15 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Star_Drill Yes. Traditionally the poles were very high about 5' tall, and you basically get on top of them and do your forms and/or spar. I have 2 methods for people who want to use them with their TKD TSD or kung fu. We'll just talk about the TSD/TKD. What you can use to get used to the "feel" are red bricks turned on the long side or the short side. You can set these up randomly or in a pattern. I would recommend placing them in the shape of your form. So then you can practice your forms on the bricks. *That's perfect for the folks who want a temporary training solution. For a permanent solution, you might want to invest in some of those white plastic poles from home depot. dig a hole in the ground and place them in the ground then fill the hollow portion with cement or dirt. I would make them at the maximum 6ft tall. I practice empty hand and weapons forms. Jye bsims@midwesthapkido.com wrote: Dear Jye: ".....Hi. I never heard of anyone doing it on raised posts. By raised posts are you talking about plum blossom poles? I have exercises for those as well...." Yes, thanks. For the life of me I could not remember the name for them. Needless to say, such a set-up is not quite as mobile though I suppose one could get the same benefit using cinder blocks albeit VERY carefully! :-) Are there special drills that you do with these? Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest