Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:03:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #78 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Why Hapkido (Dr. Daryl Covington) 2. Tae Kwon-Do id Dieing? (Manuel Maldonado) 3. RE: Help please with issue of Korean Affiliation / C ertification (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 4. RE: Board Breaking (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 5. Re: TGT website (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 6. RE: korean aiki-jutsu (Joseph Lumpkin) 7. Watkins promoted (Wayne Watkins) 8. Re: Re: Why Hapkido (Ray Terry) 9. Canadian Gopher Throwing (Wayne Watkins) 10. Re: Knife Defense Drills (Dragons81@aol.com) 11. RE: TGT (S. H. WEE) 12. Re: sang lee's retirement letter (ChunjiDo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:00:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Why Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net So, Grandmaster Ji is misleading people by calling Hapkido Sin (shin) moo Hapkido? It's Hapkido, plus the Neung Um Kynug book philosophies, as well as info from Sam Il Shin Ko. or Sung Moo Kwan Hapkido?, or what about Shin Moo Kwan Hapkdio and Kim moo-woong? Then there is Moo Sool Kwan Hapkido and Won Kwang-wha, which is Hapkido with some specail weapons, and 42 single kicks, So He is a deceiver? Why call it a type of HKD? Because there is a Base art that deserves attention. If the gentleman on the list taht started the strign is wrong in calling what he is doing ____ Hapkido, then so is every grandmaster in the HKD world. With the Shinse system, we attempt to deceive no one with a name. We, at the base of the system, have hapkido. In addition to this, we bring Jujitsu / Judo into the picture that with blend with the theories of HKD. We make no apology for that, and in fact, have over 8 hours of footage of techniques we add to the HKD base from JuJistu, but, it all revovles around the HKD principles we have practiced, as a system, for over 30 years. We refer to the art as "Shinse", but it is officially Shinse Hapkido, we owe a debt of gratitude to the 1000s of hours and decades of years spent sweating and bleeding on the HKD dojang floor, hince Shinse kwan Hapkido. Interestingly, the word Shinse - debt of gratitude in Korean, is Holy - set apart - in Japanese, which is fitting for our style, which many of our practitioners are Christian, or claim to be. IMHO, not to give credit to a base art would be to say "we invented all this", and is a lie. There is nothing new under the sun. Ultimately, the true question should be - will this save my tail if I need it. When I was in Iraq, I didn't care if the Iraqi's went down by airstrike, artillery, sniper fire, marines, jsut so long as they went down. Effective warfare is effective warfare, and I came home alive, decorated as a victor, and avoided receiving a purple heart. THAT is what mattered most to me. An Young, daryl --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:02:04 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon-Do id Dieing? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've had several people say to me "why do you practice the chon-Ji patterns?" "That particular style is dieing" Well as many of you understand. I feel that if its dieing then its my obligation to give it "mouth to mouth" I choose my particular style because it appeals to me and its the style I chose/was introdused to by my sabumnim Benny Rivera back in Puerto Rico. Just because Gen Choi died dosnt mean that his art will die with him. As long as Im alive I'll teach and continue to promote "my style". I was on a much needed/deserved vacation in South Carolina. While I was there I visited Master E.S. Moon my son's instructor, he told me that Taekwondo is just Tae Kwon-Do is Taekwon-Do dosnt matter how you write it as long as you are true to yourself and your students then move forward. Words of a wise and dear old friend/Master. Myself and my sons are both certified in the Kukkiwon and the ITF we practice as we like we enjoy Tae Kwon- Do and I have enjoyed meeting all the dedicated and respectful Masters on this list, i wont name all but you know who you are. I have much respect for those of you that have and will continue to be there for me as I will you, we all need to put our fighting aside and look at the big picture we are artist in our own right. Well I wont go on but thank all of you for being who you are. Till next post Maldonado Song Seng ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Help please with issue of Korean Affiliation / C ertification Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:07:42 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can see your point. I have some friends from Iran who would also saw that their TKD [wtf] is the best in the world. -----Original Message----- From: Marc Jones [mailto:jung_Admin@jungshinhapkido.co.uk] Sent: 17 February 2004 13:00 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Help please with issue of Korean Affiliation / Certification Dear All I have read many submissions on the subject of Korean Certificates and affiliations and have been wondering how this culture has come about... Please forgive my Ignorance on this subject I hope to gain an understanding and throw a couple of thoughts into the air for consideration to help me gain an understanding... I have the greatest respect for any Martial Artist from students through to Grandmasters and irrespective of the style taught or their country of birth or residence.. When a "non-korean" member is applying to a Korean Group for a Dan certificate, are the members applying actually tested infront of Korean Masters.? If no, what are the criteria for being accepted/certified at certain grades..? How much is charged for certain Dan grades, does the fee go up as the grades do..? If we are led to believe that a Dan certificate is worthless unless signed by a Korean, what about Kup grade certificates which I would assume are signed by local organisation members of different nationalities, are these therefore worthless or just not as important..? I am English, and my forefathers claim to have invented sports such as soccer, cricket and Rugby, there have been many nationalities that have adopted these sports and many many countries have a superior standard than our own.. I am in no way suggesting that Korean Masters are false or not among the best exponents of the Korean Martial Arts, but does it mean they have a monopoly on being the ONLY nationality that can be any good..? Are they ALL automatically assumed without question to be great simply because of their nationality..? Americans rule the world when it comes to basketball, but are all NBA teams and college teams of the same standard..? Has anyone ever heard of instructors of Japanese / Chinese styles that have similar culture to send away for certificates from Japan or China.? What about Korean Nationals that now reside in America.. Do they send away for Korean Certificates..? I teach a style / syllabus I developed myself, I do not claim to have re-invented the wheel I have simply collated ideas, techniques and principles over the 20+ years I have been training and teaching, it is a Hapkido Style I named Jung Shin Hapkido, I do not claim it to be anything other than the way I personally like to teach, I produce good standard students and instructors and all Dan grades are assessed by panels of invited independent examiners between 4th-10th Dan, from the organisations I affiliate to, even though they may hold grade in different styles such as TaeKwon Do and Aiki-JuJitsu they are still able to assess good techniques whilst I advise them on accuracy within the syllabus. My Question on this situation would be how can a Korean, French, Brazilian, American, Chinese or Tibetan (TGT) know my style better than me..? Should I send a few grand over to someone I have never met, who doesn't know me from Adam so they can send me a piece of paper to make myself feel better..? What would that certificate actually be worth...? I only set a physical-test requirement syllabus to 4th Dan in JSHKD and as such because of the grade I already held I only assumed that same 4th Dan. Despite being Dojoo of the style I did not wish to claim myself a title of grandmaster 9th/10th Dan. My Students tried to promote me to overdue 5th Dan at Christmas, however I refused the kind gesture as I wanted to wait and be recognised independently through my affiliated peers as well as my loyal students. I have questioned myself over making further overseas affiliations but have been concerned with what I have read. I was particularly curious after reading the recent goings-on involving people who do not need naming but have been reported as making money selling un-authentic Korean certificates. I would like to make more affiliations however I have no intention of being taken for a ride and paying huge sums of money so I ask for help in leaning how this works. I personally take the following in mind: "It is better do deserve recognition and not receive it, than to get it when you don't deserve it" I mean no offence to any individual or group with my comments, I seek not to criticise as I do not understand fully how other systems work, but I simply wanted to present my thoughts and questions. I would appreciate any comments on the certification and affiliation issues raised. Con So Hom Nee Dha Marc _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Board Breaking Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:11:36 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net TKD. haven't trained this week due to my shift, but I still feel ready. -----Original Message----- From: Neil Burton [mailto:neilb@codemuncher.com] Sent: 17 February 2004 13:39 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Board Breaking Peter Good luck in March - are you doing TKD, HKD or TGT(!!!) Cheers Neil Burton --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release Date: 13/02/2004 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:36:06 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TGT website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net sounds like i've violated copyright and pissed a few off...lol. too bad. twas all in fun. website's been deleted. take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Joseph Lumpkin" To: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 05:56:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: korean aiki-jutsu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > It is just like the many "types" or styles of Tae Kwon Do, etc. To not call > it Hapkido, if that is the base, would be to not give credit where credit > was due. Seems more like an attempt to mislead folks into believing it is something that it is (apparently) not. Just call it by its name, but leave off the Hapkido. That would be more ethical, imho. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Now Ray...Have you forgotten to take your pills again today, or are you just trying to stir up trouble? I know that part of the DDs charm is the trash talking but come on... that was a cheap shot. If the Koreans stole it from the Japanese then what would we call it? Aiki-jutsu with kicks or Hapkido with grappling... As Dan Quail would say, "you say potatoe and I say potato." You know, we could hang out at Budo Seek, but where's the fun in that when we can stay here and be a thorn in your side? I figure if some Koreans say we are too Japanese and some Japanese say we are too Korean, we probably have the mix about right. Actually I totally agree with you. We at "Shinsei Whatever" wish we had called it Shinsei Kido or some equally bilingual descriptive. That way we could have been harassed by the best of both worlds. I would recommend it to anyone. It builds character. But, look at what we would have missed. I mean, look at the fun we have had in the Korean arena with the KHF and all the powers that be. But, to try to give credit where credit is due, we thought we would prove to our teachers we remembered how to spell Hapkido, or is that Aikido... I get so confused seeing as how the characters have about the same meaning between languages. Hey! I've got the solution. Let's just call Hapkido, Ugly Korean Aiki-Jutsu, we don't want to deceive anyone, do we cousin? Have a great day and keep stirring that pot...or pile... The aroma is charming and it's a blast to watch. Joseph Lumpkin Shinsei ??????? Author of : Mystical Christianity and Encounter the Warrior's Heart --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:10:29 -0600 From: "Wayne Watkins" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Watkins promoted Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Picture of me being promoted in TGT http://www.hapkido.com/old%20page/news2.htm [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Why Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:36:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > So, Grandmaster Ji is misleading people by calling Hapkido Sin (shin) moo Hapkido? > It's Hapkido, plus the Neung Um Kynug book philosophies, as well as info from Sam Il Shin Ko. > or Sung Moo Kwan Hapkido?, or what about Shin Moo Kwan Hapkdio and Kim moo-woong? Sorry, you lost me here. How is -any- of the above even remotely similar to what was being discussed? If I recall correctly, we had a non-Korean not living in Korea pulling together a variety of self-defense techniques, forming a style and calling it Hapkido. My comment was simply... why then call it Hapkido? Why not call it Joe's System of Self-Defense or Joe Do or [some other catchy name here]? FWIW... when one studies with Gm Ji he will frequently tell you to "learn my style exactly, then form your own style". I have not learned his style exactly, and doubt I ever will be able to do so, so I'm not ready to form my own Hapkido based style. I have, however, formed my own little style of Eskrima, Sudlud Eskrima. Yes, I am a non-Filipino not living in the Philippines... but Sudlud Eskrima is essentially the fairly simple combination of eskrimas from two different Filipino instructors. I would not then throw in some Hapkido, Judo, Taekwondo and Muay Thai and still call it Eskrima. Imho, for me to do so would be misleading. imho imho imho Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:41:48 -0600 From: "Wayne Watkins" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Canadian Gopher Throwing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To clear up some confusion, what Master Timmerman does is Canadian Gopher Throwing. http://www.trailcanada.com/photos/photos-ab-02-08.asp This is the before picture. PETA will not permit me to post the after picture. I hope this helps to clear thing up. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Dragons81@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:52:27 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife Defense Drills Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/17/04 5:28:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > I am going to teach a short session at Master Todd Miller's Hapkido > Friendship workout seminar on 28 FEB in Dover, NH (shameless plug, but > since the event is free it should be allowed). > > Have my own style on this, but am seeking ideas and suggestions from the > board. > > What is your favorite knife defense drill? > > and what words of wisdom would you impart..keep it brief, if you were > tasked with this mission? > I have three favorite knife defenses, all from a straight in attack via right hand (for simplicity's sake) 1) Right palm and grab the wrist, left palm the elbow, apply pressure to break the arm. 2) Grab his hand with both your hands, thumbs on the back of his hands, bend his wrist, and stab him in the gut with his own knife 3) Downward X block, rotate his arm clockwise so you are controlling his arm and bending his body down by holding his hand and bending his wrist by applying pressure to the back of his hand with your thumbs, then kick him in the face. I hope these descriptions are enough to provide a visual picture of what to do and your knowledge of martial arts can fill in the gaps that I may have forgot. As for words of wisdom... "If you're confident practicing with rubber knives, try practicing with real knives." --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:18:14 +0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TGT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi folks, Received my eighth dan TGT certificate today. Boy it was tough, had to sit through 8 hours of gruesome oral and written tests. Wee --__--__-- Message: 12 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:31:15 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: sang lee's retirement letter Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net didnt know if this had been posted yet. got the link from the tournament tkd list: http://www.ustu.org/cgi-script/csNews/news_upload/USTU_2dWhatsNew_2edb.12304re sangleeretirement.pdf take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest