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<<------------------   The_Dojang mailing list   ------------------>>

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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource

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Today's Topics:

   1. training programs (ayatsuk)
   2. I'll take my phobias over YOUR problems... (Stovall, Craig)
   3. Re: Pro Hapkido Championship (Jeremy Anderson)
   4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Becoming_One_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Und_vat_ist_Hapkido=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   6. Luke conditioning... (Stovall, Craig)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:11:45 +0300 (MSK)
From: "ayatsuk" <ayatsuk@yandex.ru>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] training programs
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

-- Hello, Im tkd wtf practitioner since 16 yrs.
Ill be grateful for sharing the functional training programs aimed for efficiency bettering of kicks and strikes.
I need time and quantity of reps. In particular I search for buttocks and lower oblique abdominals korean training  programs.
Any other programs for kikcing development are welcome too, such as for twit, nerio, dolio, mondolio, monton chirugy.
In return ready to share, morup chagy and bandal chagy programs.
 Alex Yatsuk
Спам - болезнь Сети. За температурой можно следить на странице мониторинга (http://mail.yandex.ru/monitoring/).

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Stovall, Craig" <CStovall@nucorar.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:00:45 -0600
Subject: [The_Dojang] I'll take my phobias over YOUR problems...
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

<<<Your post reeks of the sort of phobic response that one finds with anyone
who is apparently afraid of using their intellect or discounts anyone else
who does.>>>

 

I'm afraid that's not quite right.  I appreciate your yeoman attempt at
"profiling" me here for everyone's entertainment, but you're about as far
from the mark as you could possibly be.  Fear is about the last thing that
runs my life.  As far as intellect, I apply my intellect on a daily basis as
part of my current chosen profession, and I certainly apply it in terms of
crafting my personal training experience in the martial arts.  The only
reason my post "reeks" is that it contains very pointed questions aimed
directly at YOU in response to YOUR criticism.  I'm just trying to see if
you have any rational thought behind your position.  However, your response
is Ad Hominem...you don't like my questions so you attempt to question my
intellect, and accuse me of being phobic.  How rational.

 

<<<I don't find your questions worth responding to because you already know
the answer to most of them, and your loose use of "arguing to the extreme"
is used only to deride or embarrass and not to actually identify
information.>>>

 

Or more accurately, you made some broad statements that can't stand up to 5
seconds of critical thinking, I called you on them, and now you just wish
that I would go away so that you can continue to preach.

 

<<<A good example is your reference to a list of "legitimate teachers". We
would like to think that belonging to an organization would provide this but
have seen that even the organization itself can betray this trust. But it is
both assinine and short-sighted 

not to seek out the most authentic instruction one can find and bond with
that source rather than bounce from art to art and whip-stitch together some
vague approximation of something and call it something else.>>>

 

Who's bouncing around, and whip-stitching?  Again, anything that comes
across your radar screen that doesn't jive with what YOU'VE been doing...all
of a sudden they're guilty of a whole host of crimes to include plagiarism,
fraud, and misappropriation of intellectual property.  Can what they do hold
up on the mat?  As long as people let PERFORMANCE be the measure of
"legitimacy" then we can just forget these arguments.  The biggest sickness
in martial arts today is the preoccupation with rank, certification, and
lineage.  Again, you want to talk about "authentic instruction", but when I
INTELLECTUALLY challenge you to define that...well, I'm not worth responding
to because I'm just being "obtuse".  Hey, I'm not the one tossing
albatrosses around people's necks.

 

<<<Likewise I find your insinuation that I somehow pontificate an
idealogical Absolute affrontive both to myself personally and to the Korean
traditions in general.>>>

 

Let me clear something up for you.  I'm not insinuating anything of the
sort...I'm flat out stating it.  Also, what in the world would my
observation of YOU have to do with "Korean traditions in general"?  I am not
attacking "Korean traditions".  Where and how did I do that?

 

<<< But, then, you can do that because like "Patrick" you don't actually
take a stand for anything.>>>

 

Well, I'd rather be a perpetual fence rider as opposed to peddling broken
ideologies.  Quite frankly, I find your "assessment" of me not only rude,
but also highly presumptuous.  Not everybody comes here to drop their pants
like you do, and go tilting at the imaginary dragons that stand against all
that is good and proper in "Korean traditions".  I try to offer advice, make
suggestions, and tell a funny story from time-to-time (maybe too often).  In
the end, I don't take myself too seriously.  I'm not sure who "Patrick" is,
but I do wonder if he finds his name getting drug into this as amusing as I
do.

 

<<< I think it is telling that you commonly use "whose right? whose wrong?
who cares?". I think that it is also revealing that it is this very attitude
that makes it possible for the events of the last two years to repeat
themselves over and over again.>>>

 

First off, it's very clever of you to try and equate my "attitude" with the
goings on of Hackworth.  You seem to be using that strategy more and more
often these days.  See something you don't like, and its "Oh, this is the
same sort of thing that's been going on in Florida over the last few
years.".  Whatever.  I'm about the LAST person on earth that would support
that kind of activity, and I'm not one of the people that gets wooed into
those types of organizations.  I'm sorry that you think my "don't care about
belts, rank, lineage, and certificates" attitude somehow creates the
atmosphere for people like Dr. H to thrive.  It would be more accurate to
state that there will always be a throng of sheep out there that ONLY care
about belts, rank, lineage, and certificates, and they will continue to beat
a path to the door of the person that claims to have any dose of it.  All of
this, IN SPITE of what you and I might say about it.  I care about
performance and self-development...both for myself, my training partners,
and the people that I help coach.  Period.  For those that are just
interested in belts, organizations, and little mutual admiration
societies...have fun!!!  Plenty of opportunity for those folks, and much of
it happening under the banner of "traditional martial arts".  I am in the
process of mastering MYSELF, not in mastering some other human being's
attempt to take a snapshot of knowledge, and rope it off in a mental museum
(READ: some martial art or style).  I do not serve tradition...tradition is
a source of knowledge and wisdom.  Nothing else!  Martial arts are a
tool...for survival, for conditioning, for improvement.  My ego doesn't have
to be propped up by lengths of cloth, by organizational affiliation, or by
empty labels like "traditional Korean Martial Artist".  How's that for a
stand?

 

<<<I participate in these Nets because for every ONE person such as myself
who speaks for some integrity in the arts there are a dozen or more such as
yourself you are focused on rationalizing ways from tearing the structure
down, of which the H-files 

as you call them are a stellar example.>>>

 

What is your definition of integrity?  Ever heard of circular logic?  As far
as tearing down structures...you hit the nail on the head.  Let it burn!!!
What holds people back and traps them is compartmentalizing knowledge based
upon some artificial taxonomy...this is Korean and this is Japanese, these
are grappling arts and these are striking arts, this is sport and this is
art, this is traditional and this is eclectic.  As if ANY of those
definitions spoke to the heart of what it is that I'm trying to accomplish
with my life.  Hey, you want to be the Oracle of Korean Tradition...hit it,
brother.  More power to you.  That's exactly where the SICKNESS begins.
We're more concerned with language and definitions than we are with actually
training, performing, and DISCOVERING.  Thus, we seek out "masters" and
"grandmasters", as opposed to teachers, coaches, and training partners.  A
lot of the people out there don't want to learn a damn thing.  They want to
buy into the fantasy that some old man discovered the "truth" a long time
ago, and they too can hold this eternal "truth" in their hot little hands
(along with a framed certificate).  And to be perfectly blunt, the H-files
have absolutely NOTHING to do with an open-minded approach to deconstructing
and reexamining martial arts for the purpose of growth and development (what
I "preach").  No, the H-files took those "traditions" that you hold so dear
(lineage, affiliation, certification), and just leveraged them to create one
man's martial arts fantasy world.  That's the problem with the "structure".
It's only immutable quality is the fact that "martial arts leadership" can
fashion it into whatever prison is most appropriate to hold their flock.

 

<<<If you truely "do not care" why the energy in tearing into what I write
without offering an alternative position? Guess its easier to tear things
down than build something up, yes?>>>

 

I do care about something.  I care about growth and development.  And I rail
against "tradition for traditions sake" with no apologies.  Here's where we
part views.  I don't believe that tradition is inherently good.  It's what
you DO with that tradition that brings value to the table.  Tradition does
not exist independently of humanity, and humanity has occasionally used
tradition for all the wrong reasons.  So, you will forgive me if I fail to
worship at the temple of self-constructed authority.  If tradition is just
about following established dogma, adhering to the teachings that came
before us without question, making sure we use the "right
terminology"...then it's just empty.  That's not an authentic experience.
You are very quick to criticize those that seem to state or imply the
following, "Hapkido is whatever GM Ji says it is".  Fine.  Just be aware
that there is at least one person on this list that will not allow you to
throw terms like "legitimacy" and "doing things the right way" around
without at least asking you to objectively define those terms.  Especially
when those terms are launched condescendingly at others.  I offer plenty of
alternative positions...they all fall under the banner of "free thinking".
But then again, you will just accuse me of using that banner to further my
"agenda" (yes, I've picked up on another of your little recurring themes).
As far as building things up, yes it takes a lot of time and energy, and I'd
say that's what the Shinsei people are trying to do.  Thanks so much for
supporting them, Mr. Sims.  

 

Getting along by moving along...see ya!!!

 

Craig " Now 99.9% Phobia Free" Stovall

 




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:39:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Anderson <jeremy_at_home@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Pro Hapkido Championship
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Just to poke the subject with a stick, but does that mean Hapkido is now a
sport, or is it still an art?  :)

Jeremy Anderson.


--- FirstPe315@aol.com wrote:
> To the Membership-
> 
> The WHA (World Hapkido Association) is sponsoring it's first Pro-Hapkido
> 
> Championship in Thousand Oaks, CA at the Thousand Oaks Spectrum Club on
> May 22, 
> 2004.
> 
> The basic rules will be full-contact to the body and legs (kicking and 
> punching), ANY throws, locks, sweeps, takedowns are allowed, Grappling
> is perfectly 
> acceptable.
> 
> The idea is to not turn it into a bloodbath and make it more technically
> 
> oriented in terms of skill.  Therefore, no head punching or kicking and
> no 
> "striking" on the ground.  If somebody doesn't tap out, get chocked out
> or locked 
> out, the fighters are stood up after 60 seconds and they begin again. 
> You do 
> score points for techniques but there is no time-limit, just a point
> threshold.
> 
> It combines the best of some of the harder tournaments such as the
> Sabaki and 
> is skill oriented like traditional BJJ tournaments but allowing
> practically 
> all techniques within a Hapkido arsenal.
> 
> Should be fun and interesting and quite the learning experience.  We
> want to 
> encourage any and all Hapkido practitioners and organizations to
> participate 
> if they so desire.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mr. Hindley
> WHA Representative
> _______________________________________________
> The_Dojang mailing list,  1600 members
> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net
> Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource
> Standard disclaimers apply 
> http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang


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--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:38:36 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Becoming_One_?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Klaas: 

"......I was always told that in HKD you use the force of your opponent 
against
him. You as the hapkido-practioner DON'T use any force.
How can you accomplish this without becoming one with your opponent?
Only by using force I guess. And using force is not a part of my HKD
philosphy....." 

Yes, I know what you are saying. There is an awful lot made of this cosmic 
stuff especially when one gets into the later teaching of Ueyshiba and his 
Aikido art. Funny thing is that when it comes time to actually train in 
Aikido and stop musing about merging with ones' partner, nifty material 
such as "atemi" including fists, knees and elbows, joint breaks rather 
than joint locks and chokes rather than pins come out of the woodwork. I 
don't "harmonize" with my partner except to say that I never work harder 
than my attacker (Hapkidos' Conservation of Energy Principle). Nor will I 
ever tell my students that they don't need to use ANY force. Yes, you are 
quite right that Hapkido practitioners use the attackers' force against 
his own attack. And maybe somewhere down the road a Hapkido practiioner 
will develop such high execution that the only energy involved IS that 
brought to the confrontation by a determined attacker. Fine. Until that 
day the defender still needs to invest energy of his own albeit of a 
relatively smaller amount. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:56:24 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Und_vat_ist_Hapkido=3F_?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Mike: 

"......"If you have studied long and hard and have found that for some 
reason
the art/system/way that you have practiced for the last two decades (the
minimum time in my opinion to even have a grasp of what you have
learned) is flawed in someway and you want to make changes and you do.
What do you call it?"......." 

Call it whatever you want. You trained in an art---say, Hapkido---- and 
you made it your own. Seems like that is what every martial artist shoots 
for yes? The problem is when you start representing what you do to others. 
Ji took what he learned from Choi added kicks and used the name Hapkido. 
Fine. The people he learned from were calling it hapkiyukwonsool. Choi 
called it "yawara". Fine. If you intend to pass along whatever it is that 
you LEARNED then you use the name of the art you studied. If you want to 
pass along what you DEVELOPED FROM YOUR OWN TRAINING, then its no longer 
exclusively what you learned but something of your own device. This 
doesn't seem like rocket science to me. In my own case I had more than a 
passing experience with Shudokan and Taekwondo. I am not going to pretend 
it has not influenced my execution--- maybe even improved on it, who 
knows.I still study the Okinawan kata and research the TAN TUI 12. But 
when I teach Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido I teach the shoulder-width stances, the 
five hyung, the six weapons, etc. If I add BJJ techniques then I don't 
call it Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido, even if I practice them dilligently and can 
see the benefit of using those techniques. YMK Hapkido is not a synthesis 
of Hapkido and BJJ. Maybe someone will come up with a synthesis someday, 
and they might call it American-Brazilian Street Combat. Fine for them. 
Just don't call it Hapkido. It may still be Hapkido to you personally, but 
it is no longer Hapkido as represented to others. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Stovall, Craig" <CStovall@nucorar.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:38:30 -0600
Subject: [The_Dojang] Luke conditioning...
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

<<<I've been doing consistent bone conditioning for a few months. I sit in
the steam room at the athletic club and I hit the marble bench with just
about every part of my hand I can think of. I do this between fifty and a
hundred times and about three to four times a week. I bet some of the people
in the club wonder "what is that banging noise coming from the steam room
all about". They probably think it's under repairs or something. I also use
bamboo to increase the bone density of my forearms and shins. I use it by
repeatedly hitting my bones.>>>

 

Well, I would be curious to know how it is you have come to the conclusion
that this type of conditioning will increase your bone density.  Seriously,
I imagine it can cause bone spurs and calcium deposits, but I'm wondering if
you're really going to experience a measurable increase in bone density.
Or, at least enough to garner a "benefit" that will offset the soft tissue
damage that you are undoubtedly incurring.  Not to be critical, but I doubt
you could find any scientific literature that would support the claim that
blunt force trauma increases bone mineral density over a period of time.

 

<<<Of coarse it is really nice for sparring and breaking because it doesn't
hurt to make contact with the conditioned parts anymore.>>>

 

If you are doing something that should result in some sort of pain, and it
DOESN'T...this is not good.  Talk to your family physician.

 

<<< However, where do I stop so I'm not crippled by the time I'm forty? I'd
like to know other people's conditioning procedures and any comments to my
own.>>>

 

I think you have to put this in perspective.  If you are going to have to go
out on a regular basis, and fight someone bare-knuckle style to the
death...then this type of conditioning probably has some merit.  In this day
and age, we all have regular lives with regular jobs.  I truly think you'd
get more increase in the quality of your life by putting that effort into
something more productive in terms of physical conditioning.  Weight lifting
comes to mind.  For martial purposes, I can attest that my hands have become
much heavier and thicker from doing heavy lifting with dumbbells and
barbells.  I know this would serve me well in a self-defense situation where
I was forced to strike, or grapple, bare-handed with another person.  All of
that, and no possibility of crippling damage to my joints, ligaments, and
tendons from the program itself.  Just a suggestion.

 

If you just HAD to pursue this line of conditioning, then I would look into
the Iron Palm traditions from Chinese martial arts.  

 




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