Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:29:11 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #88 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Using force on Bruce and Craig (Burdick, Dakin R) 2. Re: Looking for a taekwondoist (Jye nigma) 3. Re: Hapkido and Force (ABurrese@aol.com) 4. finding the middle ground (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re" Craig's Reply to Bruce (blueknightpi@att.net) 6. Re: Luke conditioning... (Jye nigma) 7. No Strike Hapkido (Chris LaCava) 8. RE: training programs (Stovall, Craig) 9. Re: Craig and conditioning (luke rose) 10. indomitable spirit (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 11. RE: Subject: [The_Dojang] I'll take my phobias over YOUR problems... (Dana Vaillancourt) 12. RE: Korean in Price FC (Kip McCormick) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:03:12 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Using force on Bruce and Craig Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok, let me first start by saying that I respect both Bruce and Craig. I've played with Bruce and like what I saw, and although I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Craig, I respect his posts. But could you guys take the personal dispute into email instead? On to the Klaas's post: "......I was always told that in HKD you use the force of your opponent against him. You as the hapkido-practioner DON'T use any force. How can you accomplish this without becoming one with your opponent? Only by using force I guess. And using force is not a part of my HKD philosphy....." Let me second Bruce's reservations about the use of no force. I've played with some high ranks (up to 5th dan) in Ueshiba aikido, and generally they threw uppercuts when they needed to. It's why I keep playing with them. Self-defense takes force. When you train, you should try to blend and use as little force as possible ("maximim efficiency, minimum effort," as Kano used to say) but understand that when trying to throw an armbar on an offensive lineman, you are better off stomping on his feet and running away. Locks and throws are nice, but they are hard to pull off when someone is actually trying to hurt you. Police do it because they are supposed to do as little harm as possible, but they get to wear body armor and carry a gun too. There's a reason for that. It is much easier to harm someone than to control him. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:09:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Looking for a taekwondoist To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you need help removing it, just let me know. I am a graphic artist and can most likely clone the area(s) where the name is to make it appear blank. Jye http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jye-DigiTech-Designs/ "Grant D. Watson" wrote: I received a similar request off-list. There are areas where it is difficult to remove personal information without blanking other parts of the certificates. I'm working on it, and if I pull it off I'll post a message to the list. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:56:35 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido and Force Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Steve P said: >>>Just a note about force in Hapkido. Harmonious power, or coordinated power allows for the use of power by the Hapkidoist. The power added by the Hapkidoist should be minimal, and should be in concert with an opponent, taking his balance. In more advanced applications, the Hapkidoist may try to encourage (trick) an opponent into applying force, giving us some energy to direct. Hapkido is also a way of life (IMHO). Learn to get along. Decrease stress. Sincerely, Steve<<<< Well said! Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:00:34 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] finding the middle ground Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rich writes: > Wouldn't it be a better place to be if those with the most experience > and those with the > biggest egos could join together on the mat and find the middle ground. Hello Rich: One would think that with more and more experience, there would be less and less ego:) The longer I am involved with martial arts, the more I realize just how little I know and how frail the body is. That realization has done wonders to curb the inflated ego I had when I was younger and less experienced. Come to think of it, Jackson (just a few weeks away) would be a good mat to begin the process:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: blueknightpi@att.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:03:38 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re" Craig's Reply to Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I tried to think of a better way to express those thoughts, something I could add to the discourse. I found one thing. Just say "Amen." Vic "struggling to keep up with the deep philosopy published here and running to the dictionary to improve my self defense skills" Cushing --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:22:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Luke conditioning... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think he was attempting some sort of iron palm training. But it sounds as if it has been done incorrectly. There are exercises which are taught which are CRITICAL to all iron palm training, and these exercises do increase bone density, but they are internal exercises. As training goes on, the density of the object being trained will indeed increase. For instance, have you ever noticed the density of someone who works heavy machinery all day? or someone who works on the railroad driving spikes? their hand density is outwardly noticeable. Iron palm or any external conditioning training should ONLY be done with the guidance of a competent teacher who is skilled in the matter. I should also point out that all conditioning of that nature is or should be accompanied with a linament of some sort such as dit da jow, snake oil, or some other deep penetrating linament that will aid in this training. Jye "Stovall, Craig" wrote: Well, I would be curious to know how it is you have come to the conclusion that this type of conditioning will increase your bone density. Seriously, I imagine it can cause bone spurs and calcium deposits, but I'm wondering if you're really going to experience a measurable increase in bone density. Or, at least enough to garner a "benefit" that will offset the soft tissue damage that you are undoubtedly incurring. Not to be critical, but I doubt you could find any scientific literature that would support the claim that blunt force trauma increases bone mineral density over a period of time. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:43:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] No Strike Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig S. <> Hey Striking is always an option, but in our particular style of Hapkido, "Jung Ki Hapkido," we focus alot on the entry of a given technique. By using basic principles, you do not need to strike a larger, resisting opponent in order to apply many Hapkido techinques. This is done by moving from your center and affecting their skeletal structure in order to start to off-balance your attacker or just re-position them. By doing so, you don't have to use physical strength on the actual technique. Nothing mystical about it, just body mechanics. This is one of the main things that differentiates Hapkido from just a bunch of jointlocks. Take care Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:56:51 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: training programs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Alex, I am guessing that there may be a language barrier here. At any rate, I will try to share some information. I hope this helps. Buttocks: One of the best exercises for this area of the body is deadlifting. Specifically, deadlifting with the "sumo style" grip. Your feet will be wide apart, and you will grip the bar in a narrow fashion between the legs. You should be able to find instructions and information about this lift on the internet. I would also suggest sprinting at lengths from 50 meters to 400 meters. This will have positive effects on this area of the body. You will also help your kicks by stimulating the fast twitch muscle fibers (white muscle fibers). Of course, the sprinting will also have a positive effect on muscular endurance, as well as lung capacity. This will all have a very positive effect on your TKD. Lower Oblique Abdominals: I would suggest the "L-sit". This is a common move from gymnastics, and can most commonly be seen performed by the men on the parallel bars, as well as the rings. You have probably seen it done. Basically, the body is supported in an upright position by using the arms, and the legs are held extended in front of the body and held for as long as possible. Your body should be shaped like the letter "L". This puts great stress on the entire abdominal area, and will build great strength in your stomach. This can be done very easily if you have two stable chairs, or you can also do it by grabbing hold of a pull-up bar and letting your body hang below it. If you are flexible enough and strong enough, you can even do it on the bare floor with absolutely no equipment. If you have a pull-up bar (or a tree limb) you can also do "frog tucks". Simply hang from the bar, and then tuck your knees to your chest (or as high as you can get them). Hold your knees there for a short time, and then lower them again to repeat the exercise. Either one of these exercises will have a positive effect on the obliques, as well as the abdominals. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:25:39 -0800 (PST) From: luke rose To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Craig and conditioning Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, Your right. I have no proof of an actual increase in bone density by blunt force trauma. You also made me think about putting my efforts into other areas. However, I definitely need some good conditioning to be able to preform breaking demonstrations and to hold up in sparring with out having to stop because of swollen body parts. Now I'm not saying that I need to able to kick down a small bamboo tree with my shin or repeatedly put my knuckles through concrete but I do need some good contact to stay conditioned. I need to be able to spar with my students and some of them like to go a little hard. I can't take a block and stop because my shin hurts. At different levels I expect a certain amount of conditioning and I think they expect it out of me. I like to lead by example. Now this is not to say that you don't but I need to be able to take a lick'in and keep on kick'in. Thanks for your response and I'll definitely look into Iron Palm. If you have any other insights please let me know. Sincerely, Luke --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing --__--__-- Message: 10 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:05:35 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] indomitable spirit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been talking to my twins about the indomitable spirit. I wanted to get the opinion of others on this one. indomitable means unyielding or unbreakable. and we all know what spirit means. however, could indomitable spirit be compared to courage in its broadest sense? -----Original Message----- From: Klaas Barends [mailto:barends@opurk.nl] Sent: 22 February 2004 08:11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Becoming one > Bruce wrote: > Once again the philosophical > underpinnings are different. As I tell my students, in Hapkido I am not > interested in becoming "one" with my partner. I want to make him "one" > with the floor. I was always told that in HKD you use the force of your opponent against him. You as the hapkido-practioner DON'T use any force. How can you accomplish this without becoming one with your opponent? Only by using force I guess. And using force is not a part of my HKD philosphy. -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Dana Vaillancourt" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: Subject: [The_Dojang] I'll take my phobias over YOUR problems... Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:59:13 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig. A well-written response. Hopefully you two can just agree to disagree. However, I think you two probably have more in common than not! Dana >Message: 2 >From: "Stovall, Craig" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:00:45 -0600 >Subject: [The_Dojang] I'll take my phobias over YOUR problems... >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korean in Price FC Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:35:24 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig- I took the below information on Master Seo from the World Kido Federation web site. The Pride Fight in Seoul is the Neofight. Hope this helps. Kip Experience Graduated University of California Berkeley Economics General Secretary Hanminjok Hapkido Association World Kido Federation International Director Martial Arts Experience Korea Kuk Sool Association Demonstration Team National Hapkido Championship Sparring Light Weight Champion National Hapkido Championship Sparring Welter Weight Champion Korea, USA, Europe Seminar and Demonstration over 200 Times Korea Kuk Sool Association 7th Dan Hanminjok Hapkido Association 7th Dan >From: "Stovall, Craig" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean in Price FC >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:18:33 -0600 > >Kip writes > ><<in >Seoul, there are numerous clubs who show up at the gymnasium sporting some >sort of "Brazilian JuiJitsu" or "thai kickboxing" clubs run by folks many >Korean masters over here have never even heard of.>>> > >By "Pride fights here in Seoul" is that the 'NeoFight' that was mentioned a >little while ago on the list? It may have been you that mentioned it. > ><<he's doing a great job.>>> > >Would appreciate any info on Mr. Seo. What style/system of martial art is >he involved in? > > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > >This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information >intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If >this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, >disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly >prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are >unsure >whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please >immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy >any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of >this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this >communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal >privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the >sender. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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