Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #89 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. MMA in Korea (A. Boyd) 2. Re: no force hapkido (Klaas Barends) 3. Hand Conditioning (harmonywushu@juno.com) 4. RE: Becoming One (Stovall, Craig) 5. Hapkido Quote in TKD Time (FirstPe315@aol.com) 6. Re: Jye Nigma (Jye nigma) 7. Re: Conditioning (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:00:19 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] MMA in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interest in Mixed Martial Arts competitions is on the rise in Korea right now. The local cable networks carry coverage of Pride, UFC, K1, etc at night and at least three groups have sponsored large scale matches in Seoul. Neofight and Spirit are the names I see/hear most often. The third group's name keeps slipping my mind. Advertising coverage is hit or miss so I haven't been able to go to one yet and only heard of one event before it happened (as opposed to after.) Development of this sector has been gradual and it's hard to say where it will go. Prizes are getting bigger so I guess it's only a matter of time before international talent of the famous variety will make competitions in Seoul a part of the program. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:34:58 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: no force hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > << him. You as the hapkido-practioner DON'T use any force. How can you > accomplish this without becoming one with your opponent? Only by using force > I guess. And using force is not a part of my HKD philosphy.>>> > > > You don't strike people in your particular Hapkido? Just grappling? Do you need force to strike or kick? Of course, to some extend you need force (=muscle strength). (without muscle strength you can't even stand up right) When you strike, do you only use the muscles in your arm, or do you use your whole body? If you only use your arms, you need a lot of power to strike hard (brute force). Using your whole body, with the legs and waiste being the root of your movement, you won't any brute force. My point was by the way that Bruce said it told his students he didn't want to become one with his partner/opponent. In his reaction I read that he sees it a a 'by-product' of training. Where I see it as the goal of my training. It's also the goal of Hankido (=what I practice) as developped by the late master Myung Jae Nam. (have a look at our website if you want to). -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:39:21 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: harmonywushu@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Hand Conditioning Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you notice that you can hit stuff with various parts of your body and it doesn't hurt the way it used to, it's not because your bones are harder (Anbody know if bones, of themselves even feel pain?) but it's porbably because you have damged/destroyed the nerves in that part of your body. Old time boxers used to soak their hands in brine or even urnine to toughen the skin, which I guess has some benefit in force transmission, but effectively what your doing is TANNING your skin (E.g maaking leather) If it wer me, I would consider modifying my technique so that I didn't have to absorb (On either the giving or taking end) so much force tha I have to cnondition any of my body parts, To my way of thinking getting hit is bad, even If I do it myself! Also, you might want to re think WHERE you're doing your conditioning. I know that the steam room at the gym i go to is NOT the most sanitary place in the world, and I would never consider smacking my hand and risking an open would/doorway for whatever pathogens the previous occupants have left for the unspsecting martial artist to fall victim to. My two cents! Peter Harmony Wushu Academy Join the Fight against violence! Subscribe to the Martial Artists Against Violence email list by sending a message to martialartistsagainstviolence-subscribe@yahoogroups.com ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:01:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Becoming One Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The problem I have with combative theories that speak to "harmonizing with one's attacker", or using only their force against them is very simple. This tends to ignore the very simple (and sometimes painful) lessons that objective reality can teach us. First and foremost, is the biochemical reality of a human organism under stress. Now, if you think you can suppress an adrenaline dump when "Big Bubba" starts swinging his biscuit grabbers at you...well, just ignore everything I have to say. This post only applies to those who are willing to be honest with one's self. As far as adrenaline goes, I know it is most often referred to as the "Flight/Fight" response in both medical and popular literature. Unfortunately, this dichotomy (while mostly accurate) tends to ignore the other effects of a powerful adrenaline dump. These include the "freeze up with a stupid look on your face" response, as well as the ever popular "curl up in a ball and crap your pants" response. I know we've been firmly engrained in the myth that adrenaline instantly transforms one into either a ravenous escapee from a gladiatorial prison planet, or the equivalent of an Olympic Decathlete who has been nurtured on a steady diet of high-grade protein and various anabolic catalysts. Don't always work that way. I've been privy to see more than a few fights, scuffles, and arse-thrashings in my time. Ever the observant type, I've witnessed more than a few adrenaline dumps. I know our LEO friends on the list can relate some hilarious stories of what happens when you mix domestic battery, Wild Turkey, pepper spray, meth, and adrenaline. Chemistry can be fun!!! I'll never forget seeing a co-worker get accosted in the store room of the grocery store we worked at back in high school. This guy jumps back into what one could describe as a "back stance" with his hands and arms curled up like on of those Raptors in 'Jurassic Park'. He then jumps straight up, three feet into the air with his knees tucked up beneath him. I swear he looked just like Carrie Anne Moss from that first scene in 'The Matrix' where she jumps up and kicks that cop. He then lands in a full squat, and starts barking like a seal being beat with a spiked club. As I've said before, Mother Nature is smarter than all of us combined because I was standing there mesmerized in disbelief, and the guy that was bothering him just shook his head and walked away. After things cooled down, I politely asked him what happened. Ok, honestly I think I said something like, "What the hell was THAT?!?!?!?" while laughing uncontrollably. He related that he had no idea what he did. A "rush" just came over him, and his body did the rest. Adrenaline can be fun!!! The moral of the story is that one can practice ultra-intricate techniques that require a high degree of muscular coordination, as well as sensitivity to and awareness of what "the enemy" is trying to do. All of this, supposedly happening IN THE MOMENT of a violent encounter. Ask a person educated in biology or medicine what happens to an organism when adrenaline hits the system. Forget the goofy stuff that you'll do (soiling your pants, and screaming random words). The important thing to remember is that fine motor skill goes out the frigging window. I imagine "harmonizing" and "becoming one" requires quite a bit of that. And don't forget about awareness and sensitivity. You probably won't have access to your full faculties. The term "tunnel vision" speaks eloquently to the state of mental reduction that occurs, and I've experienced it myself. The central, reptilian portion of our brain has no capacity to support fine motor skills, or conduct instantaneous assessments of what our opponents are doing in order to formulate efficient responses that are congruent to some long dead person's theory of "proper" fighting. Does that mean that all of your training will go out the window if you experience an adrenaline dump, and the central portion of your brain shuts off the cerebral cortex? Absolutely not. But, you had better hope that you've engrained very simple responses that rely on gross motor movements that are aimed toward hurting your opponent REGARDLESS of what they're doing. Chain punching, or a solid double leg tackle would tend to fit into this category. Spinning into a drop throw after capturing your opponent's wrist in response to the fact that they pushed your left shoulder with 30 pounds of force at an angle that would be 12.75 degrees above a line parallel to the ground...well, that would not tend to fit into that category. So, that's just the internal issues you have to deal with. Then there's the external issue that you have a person that is trying to hit you or throw you as hard and as fast as they can. It's easy to "harmonize" with the tax accountant that just grabbed your wrist in your Aikido class. It's not so easy to harmonize with the redneck who's jacked up on beer and crank, and who's throwing punches at your face while presenting an attitude of constant forward pressure. About the time you realize you've been punched seven times in three seconds, he decides to take a page from his football notebook and tackles you to the ground. About the time you realize that you're on your back, you start to get punched again. This time he's sitting on top of you with one hand firmly around your neck, and the other pounding a knot on your head. This speaks to the "model mugging" I see being practiced, and passed off as "self-defense" in a lot of today's martial arts programs. Real violence is sudden, chaotic, and brutal. A person intent on causing you harm is not going to grab you in a gingerly fashion, and they're certainly not going to stand there and pose while you counter their first punch before they send the second, third, and fourth one on down the pipe. Think about it for two seconds. If you were so pissed off that you were going to try and beat the daylights out of your fellow human being, what would be your "opening move"? Would you grab their wrist or lapel, and just stand there like a bump on a log? Hell no!!! So why practice for that? Nostalgia? Give the "enemy" a little credit. It's neither to their advantage, or within the confines of human nature to attack someone per the established protocols of what you see in a lot of material that has been overtly influenced by Aiki concepts. I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it. What I'm saying is not "the truth". It's just opinion based upon observation, experience, common sense, and a dash of half-assed research. Your mileage may vary. For those that can throw a large aggressive man to the ground, and neutralize him with absolutely no effort...you're the man!!! 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Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:11:36 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Quote in TKD Time Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Somebody please help. The January issue of TKD Times had a quote by Pelligrini in it at the bottom of a Hapkido article. I need that quote for something and I missed it on the newsstand. Can somebody please find that quote and type it out for me. It's about 4-6 lines long if I remember, nothing too bad. Send it on the DD or private e-mail if you like. Thank you very much! Jeff --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:10:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jye Nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Because you have one more line then I do. But you can do as many as 12 points. Jye George Peters wrote: Good Sir, Why do your star drills have six points and mine have eight? NOT trying to be funny, just wondering if there is a difference or a reason or even if I should be thinking at all........... Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:28:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Conditioning To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net bro you may want to go back into the archives and take a peek at one of my posts about conditioning. Jye luke rose wrote: Hello, I've been doing consistent bone conditioning for a few months. I sit in the steam room at the athletic club and I hit the marble bench with just about every part of my hand I can think of. I do this between fifty and a hundred times and about three to four times a week. I bet some of the people in the club wonder "what is that banging noise coming from the steam room all about". They probably think it's under repairs or something. I also use bamboo to increase the bone density of my forearms and shins. I use it by repeatedly hitting my bones. Of coarse it is really nice for sparring and breaking because it doesn't hurt to make contact with the conditioned parts anymore. However, where do I stop so I'm not crippled by the time I'm forty? I'd like to know other people's conditioning procedures and any comments to my own. Sincerely, Luke --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest