Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:53:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #97 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Government_Recognition?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 2. Hapkido School in Savannah GA or Charleston SC (Kip McCormick) 3. Re: Kyokushin (Klaas Barends) 4. Bionic knee and back jogging (Braeswood Martial Arts) 5. Recognition (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Re: Kyokushin (Ray Terry) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_An_Open_Letter_to_the_Internationale?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Government_Recognition?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. The Tao of Animals (Tony Preston) 10. RE: Re: Indomitable Spirit (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 11. Re: Govt recognized HKD orgs (ABurrese@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:48:07 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Government_Recognition?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "......Some are required to have Dan rank in Korea, e.g. police members, military, etc. Government recognized MA orgs are those whose ranks are recognized for this purpose....." Thanks, Ray. Now this begs the obvious question. What exactly does this mean for the average Hapkido person in the US? If an organization is recognized by the Korean government such that its ranks are recognized as valid for satisfying dan ranking requirements for police or military in Korea, just wnat does this mean for practitioners in the West? Are we suppose to conclude that if the art is "bad" enough for the Korean military it must be really ugly and therefore particularly deadly? I note that the recognition applies to the art but says nothing about the training quality nor the quality of instruction vis what we get here in the States. I am looking for something substanitive here. Is this just more chest thumping? If it turns out that the art as recognized by the Korean government is not taught the same way or by the same quality of teacher as the Koreans get back in the homeland, does the Korean government step in and take corrective actions? Do they pull the recognition? Or is this something that Koreans enjoy but is not deemed worthy of consideration to other non-Korean groups? Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: kiplindakorea@hotmail.com Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 03:23:31 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido School in Savannah GA or Charleston SC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi folks! One of my hapkido students, a marine, is moving to Beaufort South Carolina (Paris Island, but it's not like France). He's willing to drive to Savannah GA or Charleston SC (about an hour either way) or anywhere in between to train in hapkido. He's been a hapkido student of mine for 18+ months here in Seoul. I'd appreciate any info ya'll could send on any hapkido schools in/around those areas. Feel free to email me off the DD at kiplindakorea@hotmail.com. On a side-note, I'm looking forward to seeing everybody in Jackson after two years of not getting to go. I'll be the guy with the bad military haircut and the smell of kimche on my breath, which will make partnering up even more fun. I promise I'll shower by Sunday...or Monday...See you then and take care! Kip McCormick USKMAF "Warrior Hapkido" Seoul, Republic of Korea _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:26:16 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kyokushin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hi ! > Anyone know if there is a korean fighting style like the wonderful Kyokushin > Karate ? > Osu! Kyokushin is Korean ..!! -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:35:49 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bionic knee and back jogging Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello SJN, You got it, off to the hardware store now for mechanical oil!!!! Can't wait to see you!!!!! Kat --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:53:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Recognition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "......Some are required to have Dan rank in Korea, e.g. police members, > military, > etc. Government recognized MA orgs are those whose ranks are recognized > for this purpose....." > > Thanks, Ray. Now this begs the obvious question. What exactly does this > mean for the average Hapkido person in the US? That will vary, I suspect. For me personally, it means nothing. Dan rank in any art from any org still doesn't grant me a bacon-saving 'get out of a bad situation free' card. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Kyokushin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:55:25 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Anyone know if there is a korean fighting style like the wonderful Kyokushin > > Karate ? > > Osu! > > Kyokushin is Korean ..!! Would Mas Oyama think that? He was a Korean, but I would suspect he would classify his Karate as Japanese. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:55:49 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_An_Open_Letter_to_the_Internationale?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear JR, Wayne, Rudy et al, et al: As I start this letter I have a heavy heart. The 20th Internationale will be a truly historic event on a number of levels and I had hoped to participate in this experience. Those who know about my situation of the last year and a half will appreciate that being without a job has put a heavy financial burden on my family. In addition the current legal wranglings require that I remain close to home. Recent events promised a break-through but this will, unfortunately, not be the case. I hope you will accept that my spirit if not my physical person will be with you all and I encourage everyone to make the very most of this landmark event. And it is to the ground-breaking nature of this event that I wish to speak. Both JR and Rudy as well as others have mentioned that with the exposure of the recent misrepresentations and inappropriate behaviors of individuals desiring to speak for the Hapkido community, a rather large number of folks suddenly find themselves in a position to admit that their ultimate claim to standing in the Hapkido arts centers on some rather expensive wall-paper. It is not surprising that such individuals will no doubt attend the 20th Internationale with the intent of approaching Ray, or Hal, JR, or Rudy, Mac, etc., regarding being grandfathered into their respective organizations. No doubt some few of these people will use their student bodies or multiple schools as leverage to sweeten such acceptance. I don't pretend to speak for these individuals nor think that I will influence the decisions of the leaders I have mentioned. I ask only that VERY careful consideration be taken in this regarding these individuals. Everyone I have mentioned know that I am a long-standing proponent of testing over simple investiture when it comes to providing ranking and standing in the Hapkido arts. I believe that the Hapkido community will be facing a significant test in the coming months as disenfranchised members of fraudulant organizations seek out more meaningful membership in organizations with greater integrity. I ask the the Hakido leadership who will be represented at this event please consider carefully the implications of simply "grandfathering" rank into their respective organizations, and place the integrity of their respective organizations over numbers and revenues. In the years to come, when people identify an organization according to the integrity with which it has been managed over the sheer size of its enrollment I believe that you will congratulate yourself on a difficult but correct decision. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:13:23 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Government_Recognition?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Alain: ".....Personally, I don't think it means much at all. I see people switching organizations like they change a hat. One week I'm saying organization X is the best in the world, and the following week I call Korea, talk with a new organization and make a deal with them, change the patch on my uniform and start saying organization Y is the best in the world. Hmmm... Hapkido, and martial arts, should be about relationships. (Dang, have I said this before???) I have rank from a Korean government recognized organization because my instructor, in Korea, belongs to that organization and he gave me the rank. Why would I want a piece of paper from someone in Korea who doesn't know me? Why would anyone? (Other than the obvious - to try and impress people and use it to make money)......" I don't think I could have stated your position any clearer than have you. For me, the fight is one of illusion against reality. For instance, I too believe that the Hapkido arts, both in the learning and in the transmission is about relationships. However, I advocate for genuine, personal relationships rather than simply relationships suggested by membership certificates and patches. I think that JR does a fine job of making a clear distinction, for instance, between what it means to become a member of the USKMAF and representing oneself as a student of JR West. Two very different things. My sense is that if people are to ever give the Hapkido arts the sort of respect they deserve (short of defering to identified organizations) there will need to be a lot less emphasis buzzwords and catch-phrases such as "government recognized" and much more on supporting submission to standardization and quality control. I believe that the immediate effect of this will probably be slower growth of the art. However, those who submit to such rigors may expect to find a cadre of dedicated advocates who will treasure their promotions and affiliations more and do much less organization hopping. I think an excellent model may come out of the up coming 20th Internationale where I fully expect that one will see representatives of various organizations working together to help disenfranchized practitioners find "home" without allowing one organization to be "played" against another. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:28:34 -0500 From: "Tony Preston" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Organization: Custom Services Subject: [The_Dojang] The Tao of Animals Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hmmmmm... This places my life in a difficult situation... Which art do I take up as a seconday complement to my training.... Tibetan Gopher Throwing\ or Hawaian Mongoose Tossing? >From: "Randall Sexton" >To: >Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:39 PM >Subject: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gopher Throwing > > >> This is a public notice that I intend to register the name "Hi Mon" as a >new >> Hawaiian Martial Art. The full name is "Hawaiian Mongoose Tossing" but >since >> people over here shorten 25 English words down to one, I have attempted >the >> same. >> >> Randall Sexton >> www.LaughingHara.com > >-- __--__-- > Best regards. Tony Preston apreston at comcast.net 2004-03-01 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Indomitable Spirit Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:31:52 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, thank you but do you think that COURAGE is an important ingredient for I/spirit? -----Original Message----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] Sent: 26 February 2004 20:09 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Indominable Spirit Dear Peter: "......I have been talking to my twins about the indomitable spirit. I wanted to get the opinion of others on this one. indomitable means unyielding or unbreakable. and we all know what spirit means. however, could indomitable spirit be compared to courage in its broadest sense?...." To my way of thinking Indominable Spirit is probably the single most important Characteristic that a person can foster. I bet you're wondering how I come to this when so many people focus on the O-Gae with its loyalty to ones country and fielty to ones' parents, etc. Actually, this little turth comes from both personal experience and the research I have done over the years. It comes together like this. Hapkido, whether you are talking about the Physical plane or the Intellectual plane, Emotional or Spiritual plane comes back to surviving. Many times such survival, itself,comes down to just keeping going when you have every reason in the world to quit. A Holocaust survivor of Auschwitz, Victor Frankl, made it very clear that people who had a reason to keep going, and made that choice a priority, outlived people who sat down and gave up. Survivors of the Bataan Death March reported the same thing, as did workers on the Thai-Burma Railway, inmates at the Hanoi Hilton, and the Anglican representative Terry Waite when he was held in Lebanon. But lets put these more dramatic case to one side and just focus on day-to-day life. How many times have you dealt with a bureacracy and felt yourself getting ground down by protocols and paperwork. Try calling the cityhall in Chicago sometime if you need a REAL test for your spirit! Ever called the US federal offices and been passed from one person to another? How about being caught in rush-hour traffic? Actually, and I mean no disrespect to survivors of terrible events, sometimes I think these day-to-day tests for indominable spirit are tougher as the rewards to shoot for are rarely anything as momentus as staying alive. Its hard to do the right thing when ever other influence in the world is giving you leave to do something else. My sense is THAT is why people often think of mountains when they speak of something that is indominable. Its not so much that mountains are "strong" but that they resist being ground down by forces that work on them on a daily basis. FWIW. BTW: Thanks for providing an opportunity to speak to this. Right now I feel a whole lot better than I have been. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:33:44 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Govt recognized HKD orgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Wrote: > The Ministry of Sports and Culture. Formerly it was the > Ministry of > Education that was involved. Thanks Ray, it was slipping my mind, and I was too lazy to go look it up. ;-) Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest