Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:01:51 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #100 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Force (again) (Klaas Barends) 2. RE: Re: Endurance under Fire (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 3. Pressure Point Seminar - Peterborough Ont. (Mary Anne Young) 4. RE: Mr Stovall= Tony Blauer ? (Stovall, Craig) 5. getting a 6th dan for $15? ("plus extra") (Hagness, Chris R.) 6. Re: Re: Force (again) (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Kyokushinkia (Klaas Barends) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:29:09 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Force (again) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Well, I would take exception to the idea that force equals "muscle > strength", but other than that I can agree with the basics of what you are > saying here. My question of whether or not you punch or kick in your > Hapkido, as well as my subsequent long-winded posts about the "no force" > issue was in response to this statement that you made. I lost you there. I've got actually no idea what you mean by this last sentence. (English isn't my first language). Maybe this is an answer: We do kick and punch. But I don't know if it is an answer to what you just said. > So, in essence you DO use force in your Hapkido for striking and grappling? > Am I to understand that you simply make a distinction between a "good" use > of force, as opposed to a "bad" use of force. For example, throwing a > person by generating force from the core musculature (glutes, hips, > buttocks, abs, obliques, spinal erectors) is generally more efficient (less > taxing, more forceful, more balanced) than trying to throw a person by > merely using the "brute" strength of the upper torso muscular (pecs, > triceps, biceps, traps, lats). If that's the case, then I can see where > you're coming from. It was the "force is not a part of HKD" quote that > threw me (pardon the pun). Again, I have got trouble understanding you. If this is just about the correct meaning of the word force, I'd have to look it up in a dictonary. I'll try to explain. When I say 'we don't use force', I mean we don't rely on muscle strength only. So in my head: muscle power equals force. You don't rely just on your muscle strength when you make a technique. Do I really have to explain things like inner strength on a martial arts mailing list? I'd recommend Dr. Yang Jwing Ming's book 'Taichi Theory and Martial Power' if you want to know more about the subject. (and while you are at amazon.com anyway, I liked his book about Bagua as well) About 'wrist chasing'. My guess would be that no aikido practioner really thinks that people attack you by chasing after your wrist. It is just a way of training. It is a good way to understand and get notion of the attackers force and energy. And how to use it. It are basics! I guess in 99% of all hapkido schools teachers start with the cross-wrist-grab. You have to work yourself through the basics. Which can take a long time. But time is something people don't have anymore these days. Thus they want to learn things quick and easy. Well it is easier to build up some muscle strenght, then it is to develop inner strength. In your school, don't you practice danjun breathing? What would be the use? When you get older, muscle strenght fades away, inner strenght doesn't. Conclusion. Yes, I do understand that using no force at all is just the ideal we are chasing. It is a difficult goal we set for ourselves and not an easy goal to achieve. But IMHO martial arts is not about easy. (they invented guns for that) -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Endurance under Fire Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:11:20 -0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, again a very good point. I can see what you are driving at. having courage when everyone else's has failed is probably my interpretation. for example you can choose your decisions before you are faced with a given situation. so a teenager can choose not to take drugs even if all her friends are. on this subject I had a problem understanding the concept of ZEN. that was until someone explained to me the idea of emptying your mind and then being able to focus/visualise on the thing you need to do. this may not be everybody's idea of Zen but it works for me. coming back to Indomitable Spirit I like to look at the young David in the bible. he fought Goliath because he felt there was a cause and because nobody else was courageous enough. before the confrontation he went to the brook to get 5 pebbles. why? wasn't he sure if he'd kill him with the first shot? I'm sure that if he missed with first one then he would get him by the last! now also imagine what must have been going through his mind when choosing those stones? I think he was visualising what he was going to do [ZEN] then he did it Indomitable Spirit. we need Indomitable Spirit to beat our own goliaths. -----Original Message----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] Sent: 01 March 2004 16:26 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Endurance under Fire Dear Peter: "......Bruce, thank you but do you think that COURAGE is an important ingredient for I/spirit?....." The modern rendering for the 4th tenent of the O-Gae is "Courage in the face of Injustice". This is quite a bit more intellectual than the older "Never to retreat in Battle". Likewise the older rendering of the 5th tenet ("To make a just Kill") is now represented by its more modern version of "Benevolence to all". I mention this not because I discount the role of Courage in persevering in the face of adversity. Rather I think we need to consider these terms rather in their more modern context. For me, an act of Courage is more of a choice made at a particular moment and under particular conditions. Whatismore, the assigning of the label "courageous" is often by people who observe the event from the outside, while the person actually acting rarely sees what they do as "courageous". Often when questioned about an act of courage, many people report simply doing what needed to be done for the good of all. I would not discount the role of courage in tolerance, or endurance or in perseverance. I just think that steadfastness, committment, priorities, "mental toughness" figure in more prominently over the long- haul than any single individual choice at a particular moment. If it is of any help at all I would point to a great number of fellow RVN vets who made the choice to take their own lives rather than to continue enduring the pain of their experience--- and within the context of continued aspersions cast on them by a culture which has never accepted these individuals back into their arms. Great numbers of these vets, now older vets, never re-couped an employment record or standing that other who did not serve came to have. They rarely have retirement programs to speak of, they have a higher frequency of drug use (both elicit and Rx), higher alcoholism, higher frequency of failed relationships, higher frequency of disenfranchisement and alienation and so forth. To continue to put one foot in front of the other, often entirely by themselves,without the usual reinforcements most members of society enjoy, defines Indominable Spirit. Perhaps this is of some help? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Mary Anne Young" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:21:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pressure Point Seminar - Peterborough Ont. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello members of the DD!  This is a heads-up for anyone in the southern Ontario area that there is a pressure point seminar taking place in Peterborough, Ont on Sunday March 6th, 1:00-4:00 pm.  The seminar is being taught by Jack Hogan (of Hogan Karate international) and is being held at the Than Phong Tae Kwon Do branch in Peterborough.  Everyone is welcome to attend, the more the merrier!  The cost is $40 US pre-registered or $50 US at the door.  For more info call the Than Phong school at (705) 749-1407 or Roy Grills at (705) 741-1045.  Thanks for listening, ~Mary Anne~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:29:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Mr Stovall= Tony Blauer ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Big Ken wrote, <<>> No, I haven't had the opportunity to train with him, but I like what little I've seen of his material. I used to occasionally read some of the information that he posted on his Q&A forum at the old Undergound website...I think it's MMA.tv now. I'm not sure if he still runs his Q&A over there, but he would post great information pertaining to the psychological dynamics of stress. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hagness, Chris R." To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:37:10 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] getting a 6th dan for $15? ("plus extra") Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net More fuel to the fire for the issue of misrepresentation: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3663646622&category=16044 Chris Hagness Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. www.mafci.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Force (again) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:25:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > It are basics! I guess in 99% of all hapkido schools teachers start with the > cross-wrist-grab. We start with same side grab. Seems to be a more typical situation that one would encounter. > It is a difficult goal we set for ourselves and not an easy goal to achieve. > But IMHO martial arts is not about easy. (they invented guns for that) You lost me here. How exactly are guns "easy"? After taking tactical firearms training you believe that guns are easy??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:42:18 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kyokushinkia Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ------ Forwarded message from Klaas Barends ------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:24:51 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #99 - 9 msgs > Kyokushinkia is not Korean. Founder Mas Oyama was Korean,but he > did'nt study any Korean martial art, at least not formaly.His style is > a product of his studies in Chinese Kempo, Shotokan, Goyu, and Judo. It is the 'at least nog formaly' that does it for some people. I couldn't care less wether or not Kyokushinkia is Korean or Japanese. I do know that there are people out there who do care, just trying to see if some of them are on this list :-) It was fun to see some Korean Kyokushinkia practioners on Korean tv a few weeks ago. They did 'the usual' baseballbat an big ice block breaking stuff, that made Kyokushinkia famous. -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ ------ End forwarded message ------ -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest