Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:57:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #104 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (Manuel Maldonado) 2. Jackson Seminar (Kevin) 3. HKD in Taiwan (Klaas Barends) 4. 20th Hapkido seminar (Larry Stanford) 5. back home (Ray Terry) 6. Re: 20th Hapkido seminar (Jason E. Thomas) 7. Same side vs. cross (Ray Terry) 8. 'motivation' (Linda McPharlin) 9. Re: Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) (Jason E. Thomas) 10. Jackson, MS. - fun for all (Jeffery Dean Sr.) 11. kukkiwon certification (Eddie Urbistondo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:52:21 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th dan for $15.00 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jason & Rick I made that statement since I belive in legitimacy in the arts. ATA Certificates are not regognized in Korea, and as far as my organization is concerned our students have the choice in which cert they want Kukkiwon or ITF. Most of them choose KKW for some reason. In recent news about Dr Kim and Chang Un I feel that our beloved art is going to Hell  in a hand basket. We need to do something. As Jason said its not the cert that counts but how you act on the mat and the fun you have, that counts... Tae Kwon PS Im working with thw Chang Moo Kwan but none of us are certified by them.. All my Black Belts have either KKW certs or ITF Certs some have both.. I have both. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Kevin" To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:29:13 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, A great time was had in Jackson. Enough pain to go around for everyone. It was great to see and talk to Masters Timmerman, West, Hodder, Booth, Terry, McHenry and Hilland again. Master Whalen was there and had a enthusiastic time teaching cane techniques. Master Booth was having too much fun sharing pain with all volunteers. I believe there were over 200 participants (Master West can expound). In Master Timmerman's Friday night session we had 82 people participate. Master Terry's knife defense session was excellent and my partner Master Cushing was having way too much fun slicing and dicing. I felt like a fillet of fish when he was done. Master Booth gave a emotionally touching memorial award to Master West in memory of Master Renee West. In summary it was an awesome yet tiring weekend and well worth it. Thank you Master West for continuing to bring these great people together. Sincerely, Kevin Janisse NKMAA --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:43:54 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD in Taiwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, this weekend I'm going to Taiwan (Taipei) for a few days. Does anyone happens to know if I can find a hapkido dojang there? What would be a good park to visit, if you want to see (join) people practicing martial arts in the morning? -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Larry Stanford" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:56:50 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] 20th Hapkido seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello,I just wanted to write a message saying that I enjoyed this seminar as much or more than last year.It's amazing to see so many black belts in one room.All were very helpful and encouraging to us lower belts in learning the new techniques.Thanks to all instructors and especially Grand Master West for putting on a great seminar.Sincerely,Larry Stanford. _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:04:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] back home Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Back home from the 20th HKD and KMA International in Jackson, MS. And a great time was had by all. More later... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:47:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason E. Thomas" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 20th Hapkido seminar To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree, this year was a real blast! There was a lot of personality and it was great to see old and new friends. The master's demonstrations were exceptionally entertaining this year. I am strongly looking forward to meeting again in six months. Jason Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:27:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Same side vs. cross Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I'm wondering if there is a diff in terms here. Same-side grab is your left > > hand grabbing my right hand. Yes? > > Cross-grab is (as the word says): right hand grabs right wrist (of left). > Same-side is left grabs right of right grabs left. Did a very limited sampling of the HKD folks this weekend at the 20th HKD seminar. Didn't find anyone that started out with a cross-hand grab. Limited sample, but there it is... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Linda McPharlin" To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:24:05 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] 'motivation' Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I am an observer on this list until today. I have some questions that I would like to pose to all instructors out there who care to contribute. I recently read a book called, "Good to Great" which is about turning a good business into a great one. I started off reading it because I am a school owner, and I am trying to improve my business. As I read on, I realized the principles in it can also be applied to specific goal setting, to general life issues, and even to martial arts in my opinion. Anyway, there is a section in it which talks about getting your company going in a positive growth direction, but it says that first before you can go anywhere, you need to have the 'right' people involved. The 'right' people are those who are passionate about the same things as you are. They are the ones who work hard and love what they are doing. It says many leaders waste their time and energy trying to get to their destination with the wrong people...those who are not passionate about the goal, those who do not work hard, those who need constant outside motivation from you, or those who don't care and could quit at any time. It says that if you have the 'right' people involved, you will not have to spend so much time 'motivating' them. They are already motivated because they have the same goals, and the motivation comes from everyone, not just the leader. This made me think about the students who come through our school who decide they are not crazy about martial arts, that it is too hard, that baseball is more important, or whatever else....anyway, they end up quitting. I know I for one have made valiant efforts to keep students from quitting. I have made many efforts in my past to try to motivate those who seemed to be lacking motivation in their training. Sometimes I feel like that is all I do. I used to believe that martial arts was for everyone whether they knew it or not. I love what I do, and nothing would make me happier than to see every one of my students feel that same passion for martial arts and get the same rewards that I have received. However, I an beginning to think that it cannot be, and that I better get used to disappointment if I am going to stay in this business. Anyway, I am wondering how other instructors feel about this issue. Do you find that you spend a lot of time trying to 'motivate' people to work harder, to stick with the program and get their black belts, etc.? What about students who plain just do not like martial arts after trying it? Do you still try to encourage them to give it more time? Do you call your students if they miss a certain amount of classes? Do you spend time on trying to reengage those who have become disengaged in classes for one reason or another or do you just let them go? I know from my past and current training and especially training up through black belt that it is always easier to quit than to continue on. Luckily I did not choose to quit. There were times that I could have and perhaps even wanted to a bit. I did have an instructor who was very into "motivation" in terms of calling and checking on me if I did not come to class or constantly telling me to work harder and setting high standards for me. I am not sure if I would have made it through my training without that. I might have. I will never know. I did love what I was doing and the way it made me feel...still do. I guess what I am thinking about is how much is enough in the name of 'motivation?' Is it your goal to make every student a black belt? Do you even think that is possible? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks. Linda --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:13:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason E. Thomas" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That brings up an interesting debate. Is korea the sole source of TKD certification? (What ever that means). That would make me ask similar questions about countries outside the US playing basket ball or countries outside of Scotland playing golf. I think it's entirely possible that these things basket ball, golf, TKD etc... evolve beyond their country of origin. I had an interesting conversation the other day about the application of the first 3 moves of Chon-Ji. I was mentioning how you can extract many techniques from those three moves such as punches, elbows, a choke and even arm bars and take downs. I was promptly told, " the general says no! That is a low block to a front kick or punch". While I respect the general and his contribution to TKD and the martial arts in general. The first three moves of Chon-Ji are a low blow, stepping punch, and a low block. No one owns these moves or their intrepretation. That sequence exists in many older forms and has many interpretations. When the General created those forms (the Chang Hon), he made his mark. Then many branches sprung from those roots and continued to grow. To call the ITF the sole source of certification for non-WTF TKD would be wrong in my opinion. Especially considering there are 2-4 ITF's at any given time lately. While I've never practiced Song-Am TKD via the ATA, I don't know that we can discount then as TKD practictioners. I'd have to learn more about them, but I believe they very much follow many of the ideals and techniques that other TKD stylists look to. None of the Palgwe, Taegeuk or Chang-Hon forms are older than 60 years old, so is it so wrong that someone made their own forms? All these forms where made at some point. heck even the ranking system (color belts) and dan grades are scarcely 100 years old. Most of this stuff was passed on by people working out in their back yards in their underwear. (Pretty funny, now that we practice in what some people call pajamas) ;) I have certificates from many organziations and schools, having travelled quite a bit in the Army, I have had the ability to train with world class masters such as Gen Choi Hong Hi, Chuck Seriff, Yang Moon, Hee Il Cho, Ernie Reyes Sr., JR West, Rudy Timmerman, Richard Hodder, Tayuki Mikamki, Teruki Okazaki, Stan Schmidt, Wonik Yi, and several others either in class as their student or in seminars. In the in end, I'm a fat bald guy who has a respiratory disease, diabetes, and a score of other issues, that just plain loves this stuff. I train where I can and share what little I've picked up and have fun. I've never been turned away as a student and my students have never asked me for my KKW cert #. If I went to Korea (and I did) and they said show me your Kukki certificate (they didn't) or you'll have to wear a white belt. I'd simply wear a white belt and train, just like I did in GM Timmerman's dojang just 4 months ago. No big deal. I have a 1st Dan Certificate signed by GM Seriff. Does that count? Jason Manuel Maldonado wrote: Dear Jason & Rick I made that statement since I belive in legitimacy in the arts. ATA Certificates are not regognized in Korea, and as far as my organization is concerned our students have the choice in which cert they want Kukkiwon or ITF. Most of them choose KKW for some reason. In recent news about Dr Kim and Chang Un I feel that our beloved art is going to Hell in a hand basket. We need to do something. As Jason said its not the cert that counts but how you act on the mat and the fun you have, that counts... Tae Kwon PS Im working with thw Chang Moo Kwan but none of us are certified by them.. All my Black Belts have either KKW certs or ITF Certs some have both.. I have both. Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jeffery Dean Sr." To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:30:48 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson, MS. - fun for all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a quick note to say thank you to GM West and his people for a truly enjoyable weekend. Once again he has found a way to bring in the cream of the crop (instructors and students) for 3 days of fun and learning. For those of you who have not yet attended one of these seminars you I urge you to keep an eye for the announcement of the one coming in the fall. You would be hard pressed to find a better group to train with. So to all my old friends and to my new friends I say Tang Soo - and see you soon. To GM West and his people I cannot say thank you enough for taking the time to plan and put on these seminars. Tang Soo Jeffery Dean Sr. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/2004 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:41:44 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] kukkiwon certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Brent Balnz, I think the point Master Maldonado is trying to make is that---for example, you can promote your student to third dan in your system of Taekwondo. If your student moves to another school in another state or country, that certificate will be worthless. Usually, unless you are WTF or ITF certified, your student will have to start as a first dan in WTF or ITF. Master Urbistondo --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest