Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:00:06 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #106 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Tanjeon breathing (Burdick, Dakin R) 2. Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) (Lasich, Mark D.) 3. RE: Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) (Rick Clark) 4. Re: 2004 seminar thanks & photos (Ray Terry) 5. RE: Taekwondo or Tae Kwon Do (Rick Clark) 6. hapkido wrist grabs and TGT (J R Hilland) 7. RE: Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 8. email (J R Hilland) 9. Seminar (Rudy Timmerman) 10. Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF (Manuel Maldonado) 11. 20th International, short review (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:04:34 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Tanjeon breathing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeff wrote: >You very well know that there are many ways to practice TanJun Breathing. Sure, although you probably know much more about it than me. I was just talking about the style I was taught. It was all about tension, which will result in a beautiful corpse when you hit 60. You know, you might usefully go into a dissertation on tanjeon (tanjun) breathing here, because I for one would like to know more. Sounds interesting! Cya, Dakin --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:13:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Jason Thomas wrote: >While I've never practiced Song-Am TKD via the ATA, >I don't know that we can discount then as TKD practictioners. >I'd have to learn more about them, but I believe they very much follow >many of the ideals and techniques that other TKD stylists look to. Wow! As a long time ATA member, and with my roots in TSD MDK, I never even considered that there would be those that would discount what I do as not being TKD! If not TKD, what would it be? FWIW: GM HU Lee trained with General Choi, and learned his forms. If I remember correctly, the ATA was founded on use of those forms, but through GM's vision grew to what it is today. Each of the 18 Songahm forms makes up part of the Songahm Star, which roughly creates a circle when all forms are put together - very symbolic of the no beginning, no end. Suffice it to say that I have never even considered what I practice as not being TKD. We have all the same blocks, strikes, kicks, etc. that ITF, WTF, TSD, etc have! GM's vision allows Songahm (pine tree/temple or pine tree/rock, think about soft and hard) TKD to be rich in history and symbolism, yet flexible enough to incorporate those other endeavors that can "round out" the martial artist (pressure points, weapons, ground fighting, etc.) As someone once put it, with the martial arts, they are all just different paths to the top of the same mountain! For me, after all this time, the top remains yet unseen. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Lasich, Mark D. [mailto:Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com] > Wow! As a long time ATA member, and with my roots in TSD MDK, I never even > considered that there would be those that would discount what I do as not > being TKD! If not TKD, what would it be? There are those who will discount anything that is not WTF or ITF. > > FWIW: GM HU Lee trained with General Choi, and learned his forms. If I > remember correctly, the ATA was founded on use of those forms, I knew Hang Un Lee back when there was not an ATA. He had an organization I Omaha that was called the Midwest Tae Kwon Do Association (MTA) and the patch he used was the same design MTA instead of ATA. Anyway at that time (60's) he was affiliated with Son Duk Son's World Tae Kwon Do Association and attended all of the tournaments and would bring his students. To the best of my knowledge Lee was a member of Chung Do, and so would have been under Son Duk Son before he moved to the US. He was a member of the military and stories are told about him going into N. Korean territory with only a knife and his TKD, and he did not pull his knife. I have been told that ALL who were involved in TKD in the Army were told they were no longer members of Chung Do Kwan, Tang Soo Do, Song Mu Kwan, or whatever Kwan they were in and we NOW members of O Do Kwan - which was Gen. Choi's military TKD. As I remember he was teaching at the Air Force Base where Richard Reed was a student and eventually brought Hang Un Lee to the US and opened the schools in Omaha. From there they went on to found MTA and later ATA. At that time Lee taught the Pyung-Ahn set of forms. > Suffice it to say that I have never even considered what I practice as not > being TKD. We have all the same blocks, strikes, kicks, etc. that ITF, > WTF, TSD, etc Which are the same as Shotokan Karate as that is where Won Kuk Lee got what he learned and then passed on to his students. >TKD to be rich in history and > symbolism, yet flexible enough to incorporate those other endeavors that > can "round out" the martial artist (pressure points, weapons, ground > fighting, etc.) > Mark Rick Clark www.Ao-Denko-Kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 2004 seminar thanks & photos To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:22:40 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... , as promised, here is a link to the Dojand Digest group > photo I took as well as other photos from this weekend... > > http://homepage.mac.com/ep3/index.htm Great! Thanks for getting the pics up so quickly. Does anyone have the pic of the entire event? The one taken of everyone lined up with Dr. Kimm. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo or Tae Kwon Do Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:29:17 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Clint, > > About 15-20 years ago most of the people I know used Tae Kwon Do (three > separate words), now I see many people use Taekwondo (one word). What is > the difference? It's my understanding that Taekwondo is the preferred way to spell Tae Kwon Do according the WTF. Personally I prefer Tae Kwon Do. Rick Clark www.Ao-Denko-Kai.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:11:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido wrist grabs and TGT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The goal here is to move from a static position to a dynamic one. In a class setting, the new student usually starts with simple wrist grab, works his/her way up to clothing and other types of grabs and then to more dynamic motion (kicks, punches, being pushed, etc.). The idea here is that the attack (wrist grab, bear hub, choke, sucker punch, etc.), the technique itself (wrist lock, four direction throw, hip throw, etc.) and then the conclusion (pin, break, throw, etc.) becomes one fluid motion, not a series of motions stopping and starting. Up here in the artic tundra, we do not have Tibetan Gophers, but you do have your choice of throwing Elves of Polar Bears. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th dan for $15.00 (rank not valid unless KKW or ITF?) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:16:24 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Wow! As a long time ATA member, and with my roots in TSD MDK, I never even >considered that there would be those that would discount what I do as not >being TKD! If not TKD, what would it be? My point exactly! Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:27:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] email Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For some reason my email properties showed my email address incorrectly. It has been corrected to show hapkido@ideaone.net. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:31:16 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings everyone: Arrived back home safely after another near 1200 mile return drive from Jackson, and loved every minute of it. Adding another 2400 miles to my car odometer seems a mere pittance when compared to the mileage one gets from meeting so many good people and having the opportunity to work with them. I thank everyone for their kindness and I truly appreciated the hospitality and friendship of Master West and his students (what a great bunch of people). It was great to spend some time with my old friends Ray and Geoff Booth ( I convinced him to come and do another seminar in Canada at the end of August), and I was very happy to finally meet Masters Thomas, Whalen, and Duque as well as get better acquainted with Masters Lyons and Borucki (sp). Congratulations on the promotion once again. I was especially pleased to see that quite a few NKMAA members took my advise and joined me in Jackson, It was great to see all of you, and I hope I did not overwork you during the lunch break on Saturday:) I'll see you all in Austin at the end of the month, and I cordially invite all the good people from DD and USKMAF to join us in Austin, TX for some more fun. Please contact Master Jason Thomas of the Austin TKD school for more information on this seminar. To all who asked me to do another parking lot breaking workshop, sorry I had promised to work on some other stuff with the NKMAA group and could not get away. I was pleased to see that some non NKMAA members felt comfortable enough to join in on the lunch session, as I regard you all as family and you are always welcome. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:15 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I never said they were invalid all Im saying is that I had a problem once I had a Master rip up my cert. saying it was no good. It was signed by GM Benko. U have a 1st Dan signed by GM Serriff? Good for you in the ITF its valid I have some signed by GM Hwang. But take it to Korea and see if they will honor it, they might "switch" it over since its a 1st Dan but if it's higher they wont. My son's 2nd Dans were not accepted by KKW. They were issued 1st Dans. But oh well. to each his/her own. My ITF certs and my KKW certs are of much value to me. I personally dont issue my own certs. eventhough some folks have suggested it to me. Im just trying to look out for my students. As Master Urbistondo said if one of my guys goes to his school(s) they would be accepted since they have KKW Certification. Well most of my Black Belts do I have some that dont want anything to do with KKW Certs. They prefere the ITF ones. I personally like the ITF ones they look nicer to me, made of rice paper etc. But thats a matter of Choice. Tae Kwon Master Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage – 4 plans to choose from! --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:42:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] 20th International, short review Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a quick review of the fun and games that happened this last weekend. Things kicked off at ~6:20 PM on Friday. Three sessions were taught from 6:30 to 7:30 with three more from 7:45 to 8:45. In the first set of sessions Master West taught clothing grabs, Master Lyons taught ground fighting and Master Borucki taught hook punch defense. Participants picked one of three sessions to attend in each time slot. In the second set of sessions on Friday evening, Master Timmerman taught rope techniques, Master Kirsch taught seated self-defense and Master Instructor Mangum taught kick defense. Saturday kicked off at 10:15 AM with short talk from Dr. Kimm on growth via the martial arts. Master Booth then made a presentation from the International Hapkido Alliance to Master Renee West (RIP) for her extensive contribution to Hapkido and the Korean Martial Arts. The instructors then presented a short demo to the participants prior to the first sessions of the day. At around 10:45 the seminar broke up into three groups with Master Thomas teaching sword take-aways, Master Lyons and Smith teaching ground techniques and Master Instructor Mangum teaching kick defense. At noon the next set of sessions began with Master Borucki doing hook punch defense, Master Hodder doing stick techniques and Master Timmerman did rope techniques. Lunch. Yumm... At 3:00 PM Master Kirsch presented seated self-defense, Master Whalen taught cane techniques and I did something knife related. At 4:15 PM we all formed up again, this time with Master Booth teaching dan bong, Master Hilland choking out folks, and palm striking as the third session. By 5:30 all were looking forward to the buffet at Wood's Family Restaurant, but not before the last session of the day featuring Master Gordon presenting the principles of Aikido, Master McHenry sharing ideas on classroom drills, and Master West doing his Hapkido black belt class on pressure points. 8:00 PM. Buffet dinner @ Wood's. Eat lots, talk to friends, eat more. Back to the hotel to eat and drink and chat more. Sunday began with the sweet aroma of Tiger Balm in the air and a lot of people moaning and groaning as they woke up and warmed up. 10:30, Master McHenry doing classroom drills, Master Hodder doing stick fighting, Master Hilland choking out more people. The schedule changed a bit on Sunday and I've lost track of all the sessions that occurred. But more sessions were held at 11:45 and again at 1PM with Master Booth dan bonging, Master Whalen doing cane techniques, Master Hodder presenting a special session for Taekwondo black belts and me again doing something knife related. I'd venture to say that a great time was had by all. Everyone was friendly, happy to be there, politics did not get in the way -and- we all learned something. Imagine that... 21st International Hapkido & KMA Seminar, only 6 months away. In Mr. Peters' posted pics you'll find one of the members of the_dojang digest that attended. A few missed the photo opt, but I think there were 40, maybe 45, of us DDers present. Great to see ya'll there. Any typos are mine, all mine. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest