Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:31:06 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #107 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Seminar, GM Timmerman Austin, TX Seminar, 3/26 -- 3/28 (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 2. Seminar Thanx (Dante James) 3. RE: Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 4. RE: Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 5. ATA TKD (was Re: 6th dan for $15.00........) (Lasich, Mark D.) 6. RE: Maldonado and certs (ISA Headquarters) 7. Trailer from the Jackson Seminar... (Jason Thomas) 8. Re: kukkiwon certification (brent b) 9. RE: Tibetan Gopher Throwing & Siberian Penguin Bashing (Chris Jones) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Seminar, GM Timmerman Austin, TX Seminar, 3/26 -- 3/28 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:48:23 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For anyone wanting information on GM Timmerman's Seminar in Austin from 3/26/04 to 3/28/04, you can find more info at: www.natkd.com/events. I'm sure if there is enough interest from the attendees we can talk him into doing a soft breaking session. Regards, Jason -----Original Message----- From: Rudy Timmerman [mailto:kwanjang@sympatico.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:31 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Greetings everyone: Arrived back home safely after another near 1200 mile return drive from Jackson, and loved every minute of it. Adding another 2400 miles to my car odometer seems a mere pittance when compared to the mileage one gets from meeting so many good people and having the opportunity to work with them. I thank everyone for their kindness and I truly appreciated the hospitality and friendship of Master West and his students (what a great bunch of people). It was great to spend some time with my old friends Ray and Geoff Booth ( I convinced him to come and do another seminar in Canada at the end of August), and I was very happy to finally meet Masters Thomas, Whalen, and Duque as well as get better acquainted with Masters Lyons and Borucki (sp). Congratulations on the promotion once again. I was especially pleased to see that quite a few NKMAA members took my advise and joined me in Jackson, It was great to see all of you, and I hope I did not overwork you during the lunch break on Saturday:) I'll see you all in Austin at the end of the month, and I cordially invite all the good people from DD and USKMAF to join us in Austin, TX for some more fun. Please contact Master Jason Thomas of the Austin TKD school for more information on this seminar. To all who asked me to do another parking lot breaking workshop, sorry I had promised to work on some other stuff with the NKMAA group and could not get away. I was pleased to see that some non NKMAA members felt comfortable enough to join in on the lunch session, as I regard you all as family and you are always welcome. Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dante James" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:49:54 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Thanx Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to echo everyone else in their comments about a great seminar. It was my first time attending. The attitude of family and quest for excellence in the martial arts provides an atmosphere not to be missed. It was nice to put a name to the many individuals on the board. A personal and public thank you to Master West for the time he spent in conversation with me, as well as for sponsoring such a magnificant event. His students are second to none, and all of the instructors were able to transmit knowledge easily and effectively. Also Thanx to Master Hodder for his time and knowledge on the organization. I hope to see everyone again soon. Peace DJ Dante J. James, Esq. www.denverata.com Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:51:22 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Actually it's not valid in the ITF, it's USTF certificate not an ITF certificate. While only a 8th/9th Dan in some ITF regimes... I'm sure it would not be too honored... The whole politics of these things make me laugh... Regards, Jason -----Original Message----- From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:04 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF I never said they were invalid all Im saying is that I had a problem once I had a Master rip up my cert. saying it was no good. It was signed by GM Benko. U have a 1st Dan signed by GM Serriff? Good for you in the ITF its valid I have some signed by GM Hwang. But take it to Korea and see if they will honor it, they might "switch" it over since its a 1st Dan but if it's higher they wont. My son's 2nd Dans were not accepted by KKW. They were issued 1st Dans. But oh well. to each his/her own. My ITF certs and my KKW certs are of much value to me. I personally dont issue my own certs. eventhough some folks have suggested it to me. Im just trying to look out for my students. As Master Urbistondo said if one of my guys goes to his school(s) they would be accepted since they have KKW Certification. Well most of my Black Belts do I have some that dont want anything to do with KKW Certs. They prefere the ITF ones. I personally like the ITF ones they look nicer to me, made of rice paper etc. But thats a matter of Choice. Tae Kwon Master Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage  4 plans to choose from! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:54:27 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I understand your point of view, given the fact that the real catalyst for you getting your last certificate from GM Hwang was the fact that you publicly berated the organization and made it know that you did not receive your cert and were cheated, doesn't give me a happy feeling for the validity of the certificate and what it takes to get one. People buy KKW certs all the time, there are event websites that will offer that service though you do have to go through the time in grades requirements. Regards, Jason -----Original Message----- From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:04 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF I never said they were invalid all Im saying is that I had a problem once I had a Master rip up my cert. saying it was no good. It was signed by GM Benko. U have a 1st Dan signed by GM Serriff? Good for you in the ITF its valid I have some signed by GM Hwang. But take it to Korea and see if they will honor it, they might "switch" it over since its a 1st Dan but if it's higher they wont. My son's 2nd Dans were not accepted by KKW. They were issued 1st Dans. But oh well. to each his/her own. My ITF certs and my KKW certs are of much value to me. I personally dont issue my own certs. eventhough some folks have suggested it to me. Im just trying to look out for my students. As Master Urbistondo said if one of my guys goes to his school(s) they would be accepted since they have KKW Certification. Well most of my Black Belts do I have some that dont want anything to do with KKW Certs. They prefere the ITF ones. I personally like the ITF ones they look nicer to me, made of rice paper etc. But thats a matter of Choice. Tae Kwon Master Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage  4 plans to choose from! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:15:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] ATA TKD (was Re: 6th dan for $15.00........) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Rick Clark wrote: [snip] >As I remember he was teaching at the Air Force Base where Richard Reed >was a student and eventually brought Hang Un Lee to the US and opened >the schools in Omaha. From there they went on to found MTA and later >ATA. > >At that time Lee taught the Pyung-Ahn set of forms. According to the official history from the ATA: http://www.ataonline.com/about/history.asp "The ATA had used the Chang Hun Taekwondo forms since 1969 -- and the "Pinan" forms prior to that -- but he had noticed something missing in the forms." I would imagine with translation, Pinan and PyungAhn are the same? There are moves in the ATA forms that remind me of similar moves in the PyungAhn forms. A move or two, here or there, by no means an entire segment. Just a hint, perhaps, or maybe this was Eternal Grand Master Lee's well thought out way of holding to tradition while still creating something new? This all said, are we ATA folks considered among the TKD practioneers of the world? In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:19:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Maldonado and certs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] I've said this in the past and I'll say it again if your"Master" isn't KKW Certified or ITF certified the his/her certificate isn't worth the paper its wrote on. I'm only speaking Taekwon-do wise.>>> Ok, I'm out of lurk mode for a minute. My TKD Grandmaster has an 8th Dan in ITF and an 8th Dan in WTF, and holds a 9th Dan in UTB TKD. He is 82 years young. Now he presented me with an 8th Dan in UTB TKD several years back. Because it didn't come from Korea, or wherever overseas, does that mean that the art I have been studying for 40+years in invalid, (being as my certs are invalid)? I am also a practicing Christian, but I don't have any certification from Billy Graham or the Pope or Oral Roberts, stating that I am a full fledged Christian. Does this mean that my Christianity is less than theirs? No of course not. The same goes for my TKD certification. Besides, the most important thing is this: what we do is more important than a piece of paper from some foreign land. So, go ahead and pay through the nose for a piece of paper that is only good for wiping those ugly brown stains. My opinion is just as valid as everybody else's and that is just what it is, my opinion. No offense intended to Mr. Maldonado. George Petrotta --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Jason Thomas" To: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:25:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Trailer from the Jackson Seminar... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've set up an Easter Egg on our site www.natkd.com . If you go to the main page and click on the castle at the top, it will play a 2 minute trailer from the Jackson seminar including footage from the Master's demonstrations. Enjoy! Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:05:24 -0800 (PST) From: brent b Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] kukkiwon certification To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Urbistondo, I appreciate the reply. This is the exact reason I instill within my students that rank means absolutely nothing. Knowledge and skill determines your level. One schools standards are not another schools standards. I had a young man a few years ago come into my school with his 1st Dan KKW from a Florida school. He wanted to join my school, which at the time was a commercial AAU school which had a KKW cross over program for rank. I asked to see his stuff - forms, free sparring. He had no stances, his forms lacked definition, he did not know how to breath and his attitude was a bit upity. I offered him a 3rd gup at my school and that I thought was givng him the benefit of the doubt. He refused after making a scene. We ran into him again at the state tourney a year later. He had his second Dan by then from another school in the area (KKW). He did not have anyone to spar at his level so I asked if he was interested in doing a demonstration match against one of my 4th gups (ready to test the following week for his 3rd gup). They held up both of their hands at the end of the match as they did not want to disgrace the black belt who had been completely dominated by a purple belt. Does this mean KKW dans are not as good as my students - no - it means that one schools ranking is not the same as another and that to have a global organization controlling the ranking requires uniform testing of skills levels. I have not seen this from the KKW, nor the ITF, nor the WTF. And that is why I'm non-affiliated. A school is as good as its instructor, not the piece of paper that the instructor carries. A good instructor can be seen when looking at his students, not at the peice of paper he carries. I apologize for the ramblings on this subject. It's a pet peave of mine which still strikes a nerve after all this time. Thanks, Brent Balfanz Korean Karate Eddie Urbistondo wrote: Mr. Brent Balnz, I think the point Master Maldonado is trying to make is that---for example, you can promote your student to third dan in your system of Taekwondo. If your student moves to another school in another state or country, that certificate will be worthless. Usually, unless you are WTF or ITF certified, your student will have to start as a first dan in WTF or ITF. Master Urbistondo --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Chris Jones" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gopher Throwing & Siberian Penguin Bashing Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:08:53 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net After a few practice swings I am proud to say that I am a new black belt in Siberian Penguin Bashing with a distance of 322.9. I'd have to say that this was the shortest test I've ever taken, though I don't think any others required such scrutiny of a computer monitor. Quick reflex development is key. Chris For proof of my certification, you may see my test results at www.geocities.com/ghodamitt/spbcertification.pdf -----Original Message----- From: Marc Jones [mailto:jung_Admin@jungshinhapkido.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:12 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tibetan Gopher Throwing & Siberian Penguin Bashing Dear TGT enthusiasts.. I thought I would introduce you all to a similar art I have been recently made aware of.. The syllabus for Siberian Penguin Bashing is very simple. Black belts are awarded for anyone capable of clubbing the flightless fish eater a distance greater than 320.. The art only has one technique, which can be practiced in this virtual training simulator.. left click once to start the viscious penguin attack, then either left click and hold (release to swing) or just left click again to swing.. link to the SPB training simulator: http://home.tele2.fr/kcv/pinguin.swf Happy training.. Marc _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest