Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:20:05 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #110 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Re: same side (last words from me about it) (Klaas Barends) 2. 8th dahn in two TKD orgs. (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Blue belt - WTF TKD (Portswood Accounts) 4. Dojang Digest group photo (Donnelly, Eamonn) 5. Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF (Lasich, Mark D.) 6. RE: Who are those wierdo's in the short pants? (Chris LaCava) 7. RE: Chris's question (ISA Headquarters) 8. GM Ju Hun Kim (Christopher Spiller) 9. From Another Group...Cho Busho/Ikai (Jye nigma) 10. 8th dan in ITF and WTF? (Robert Martin) 11. Re: Mr. Belfanz (Dewitt, Garrett) 12. Re: Re: Mr. Balfanz (brent b) 13. WTF stuff (Ray Terry) 14. Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 8th dan in ITF and WTF? (Theron Hunter) 15. From a site...interesting history of Korean ancient arts (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:14:23 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: same side (last words from me about it) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In all my years of Hapkido I have never seen a school or organization that > didn't start students off on using the same side wrist grab to do joint > locks...the ones I have witnessed personally include... American Hapkido > Assoc., American Hapkido Federation, I.C.H.F.,, Korea Hapkido Association, > World Hapkido Federation, International Hapkido Federation, Hoi Jeon Moo > Sool Hapkido, Moo Ye Kwan Organization, and Sin Moo Hapkido.... Strange you mention the International Hapkido Federation (we are talking about this http://www.hapkido.or.kr/ one right?) where the standard 12 self-defence techniques (hoshinki) are thaught in the beginning with a cross wrist grab. I understand however that the curriculum of this federation differs a lot from other organizations. But.... the point why we started this, and wether or not you start with left-right or right-right isn't that important to me, it was about using force in your technique or not. We talked about 'wrist chasing'-aikido people, and soft versus hard. Do you consider hapkido to be a hard, soft or soft-hard martial art? How do you express this in your teachings and techniques? -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:03:29 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 8th dahn in two TKD orgs. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris writes: > If you don't mind me asking, who is your TKD GM? An > 8th dan in both the ITF and WTF would seem pretty rare > in my experience (and quite an accomplishment). I'm > assuming he's a Korean national? Hello Chris: Although I am not Master Petrotta, and perhaps I should leave the answer to your question to him, the gentleman he speaks of just HAS to be GM Eugene Humesky (the NKMAA advisor on TKD issues). Like you said, few can claim to have rank in both organizations (although I believe it did cause some problems for him). GM Humesky is a fine gentleman, and I am proud to call him a true friend and mentor. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Portswood Accounts" To: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:44:39 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Blue belt - WTF TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am now officially a blue belt. Yippee!!!! Keep well all. Celeste, Cape Town RSA “The information contained in this communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. "The Company" are neither liable for the proper, complete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor any delay in its receipt.” Whilst all reasonable precautions are taken to ensure the accuracy and integrity of the information, and that this email and its attachments is free from any virus, "The Company" accepts no responsibility whatsoever in this regard, and in keeping with good computing practice, the scanning of files and attachments is advised. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Donnelly, Eamonn" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:36:15 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojang Digest group photo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "... , as promised, here is a link to the Dojand Digest group photo I took as well as other photos from this weekend... http://homepage.mac.com/ep3/index.htm " Great photos, can some kind person put names to the DD group, I for one would appreciate being able to put faces to names. NB Ray, just a suggestion how about a DD members picture board, perhaps with a short resume, where DD members could submit a picture of themselves (not compulsory!!) Kindest regards Eamonn Tang Soo Do - Master Tony Johnson (UK) Confidentiality Note: The information in this electronic mail ("e-mail") message may be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by privilege, work product immunity or other applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient the retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you receive this electronic mail ("e-mail") in error please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0) 24 7686 2000 or by e-mail at postmaster@cel-international.com. Thank you. Registered in England No. 3877626 Registered Office 256 Foleshill Road Coventry CV6 5AB --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:53:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank not valid unless WTF or ITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Manuel Maldonado wrote: [snip] >My son's 2nd Dans were not accepted by KKW. >They were issued 1st Dans. Am I missing something here? How can a Cho Dan advance someone to Ee Dan? I am sure there would need to be others of appropriate higher rank in presence, but then would not those folks also sign the certificate somewhere? Within the ATA, a certified instructor can only promote to two ranks below their own rank. So, to promote up to Cho Dan, one needs to be at least Sam Dan AND a certified instructor! It would be interesting to hear the guidelines that other organizations represented here have around promotional authority. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:07:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Who are those wierdo's in the short pants? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charlie V. <> I hear ya Brotha. It was very painful to not attend. I know I missed out "big time" on this one. I had such a blast with you and everyone there last year. Plus, this year Hal Whalen was there and Mike Tomlinson too. By next year, I will be out of school and making my own schedule. Woo Hooo!!! Master West... Did you have to rip out that sign for any attendees? Looking forward to next year. Take care Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:18:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chris's question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris, Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky is my TKD GM. He was awarded his 7th Dan ITF cert by Gen. Choi personally. He just joined Jung Hwa Choi in Canada with the ITF-C and was promoted to 8th Dan. 8th Dan, USA-8-1003, 7-25-2003; 7th Dan, 03-01-91, ITF-#A-7-9 His other certification is: 8th Dan, WTF-CKKW, President Un Yong Kim, 03/19/95, #1001458 Master Certificate, WTF, President Un Yong Kim, 10/05/74, #372 9th Dan, Chang Moo Kwan, GM Nam Suk Lee, 10/05/94, #159 8th Dan, World Ki-Do Federation, 05/01/91, 91-8-2 9th Dan, World Ki-Do Federation, 03/01/95, #95-9-3 His web site has all the details at: http://www.geocities.com/gpetrott/ Thanks, George --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:52:44 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Ju Hun Kim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Message: 11 From: Dingodog1@webtv.net (Donald Pillow) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:30:35 -0500 (EST) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 8th dan in ITF and WTF? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to add that Grandmaster Ju Hun Kim of Charlotte, N.C. is also recognized as 9th dan by both ITF and WTF.<< A 9th dan in the ITF? Do you mean 8th dan? It's quite well known that the ITF promoted only a handful of 9th dans before Gen. Choi died (Grand Masters Rhee, ki Ha; Hwang, Kwang Sung; Chuck Sereff; Nguyen, Van Binh; Park, Jong Soo). It was huge news when GM Rhee was promoted as he was the senior man after Gen. Choi. Same with the others. But I didn't hear anything about GM Kim (not that that means anything, however! ;-) Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:06:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From Another Group...Cho Busho/Ikai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Oh this is for my Korean history scholars, hope you can help: Hi Jye, Can you look up on your Korean and Chinese online sources for the location of a ancient Korean kingdom called (#39640;#40599; Kôrai/Korai), its from around 1049 ad. This is roughly the location that Ikai (Yi Gai) and Chô Bushô (Zhang Wu Sheng) came over to Japan from Korea. Tanemura says Ikai was the same person as Chô Bushô, but I am unsure of this, Hatsumi lists them as being different people. If you find any links/maps and info, please post them. Also if anyone can find the location of a army called (#20161;#23447; Ren Zong, Sung province) in China. This army defeated the armies of (#22865;#33311; Qidan) and (#22799; Xia) and Ikai from (#22235;#27743; Sijian/Su Chang) was with the Qidan/Xia side and lost and fled to Iga the lineage says. You might need to find a Korean college student online who knows this or can look, and can also convert Chinese/Japanese characters to the Korean characters. thanks in advance, Ninpô Ikkan, TH --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 8th dan in ITF and WTF? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I most curious to know what his ITF certificate number is. As far as I know only one 9th Dan was issued to a US citizen (maybe two but I've only seen the one). Robert Martin >I just wanted to add that Grandmaster Ju Hun Kim of >Charlotte, N.C. is >also recognized as 9th dan by both ITF and WTF. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:33:31 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Belfanz Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Belfanz writes: A good instructor can be seen when looking at his students, not at the peice of paper he carries. It's a pet peave of mine which still strikes a nerve after all this time. In all my years of my Tang Soo Do and Chung Do Kwan training (GM IL K KIM / GM Chung M. Lee, Mr. Serk Song), I could NOT have stated this any better. It is very refreshing to see another Korean martial artist demonstrating the same principles which I continue to uphold. Mr. Belfanz, your school and students are exceedingly fortunate to have you. Regards Master G. DeWitt DE WITT MARTIAL ARTS Brainerd, MN. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:21:26 -0800 (PST) From: brent b Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Mr. Balfanz To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Dewitt, Thank you much for your kind words. I am lucky to have had as good of instructor that I have had and still do have. I see that you are located in the beautiful town of Brainerd. Do you have your own school up there? I'm through the town quite often. Or - if you have any secret fishing holes you are willing to share... Brent Balfanz Korean Karate Ao Denkou Jitsu "Dewitt, Garrett" wrote: Mr. Balfanz writes: A good instructor can be seen when looking at his students, not at the peice of paper he carries. It's a pet peave of mine which still strikes a nerve after all this time. In all my years of my Tang Soo Do and Chung Do Kwan training (GM IL K KIM / GM Chung M. Lee, Mr. Serk Song), I could NOT have stated this any better. It is very refreshing to see another Korean martial artist demonstrating the same principles which I continue to uphold. Mr. Balfanz, your school and students are exceedingly fortunate to have you. Regards Master G. DeWitt DE WITT MARTIAL ARTS Brainerd, MN. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:53:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fighting Dirty A slew of corruption scandals in the Korean martial art of Taekwondo could be a knockout blow for the martial art's Olympic chances BY DONALD MACINTYRE | SEOUL Monday, Mar. 08, 2004 No person has done more for Taekwondo than Kim Un Yong. When he took over the newly formed World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) three decades ago, the Korean martial art was viewed as a crude form of Japan's karate. Today, millions practice the sport worldwide, and four years ago it became a medal sport at the Sydney Olympics. As Taekwondo grew, so did Kim's stature: he became the sports czar of South Korea and, last July, a vice president of the International Olympic Committee (I.O.C.). "He had the power to do anything," says a Korean sports journalist. "He was God." More like godfather, Korean prosecutors say. Last week, Kim went on trial for corruption and bribery, accused of pilfering $3.3 million from Taekwondo organizations, including the WTF, and of taking bribes from businessmen and Korean Olympic committee officials. Korea's top sports diplomat, prosecutors charge, ran "a general store of corruption." Kim has denied all the charges, although he admits he mixed personal funds with sports monies and that he had to spread cash around for the sake of "sports diplomacy," including sending funds across the border to convince North Korea to march as a united peninsula at the opening ceremonies of the Sydney Olympics. This was just the latest blow for Korea's national sport. In January, the president of the Korea Taekwondo Association, Koo Cheon Seo, was convicted of bribery; the same month, the president and treasurer of the U.S. Taekwondo Union stepped down amid charges of financial mismanagement. All that is bad news in the runup to the 2008 Beijing Games: Koreans are worried that Taekwondo could get bumped out of the Olympics altogether in favor of a Chinese martial art called wushu. "The I.O.C. wants to see Taekwondo clean itself up," says Steven Capener, a former U.S. national Taekwondo team member who worked for the WTF in Seoul. Otherwise, the sport may be cruising for the Olympic equivalent of a roundhouse kick to the head. >From the Mar. 15, 2004 issue of TIME Asia Magazine --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:56:48 -0800 (PST) From: Theron Hunter Subject: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 8th dan in ITF and WTF? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is this the Grand Master Kim who is 9th Dan ITF and WTF? http://www.kimschooltaekwondo.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:12:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From a site...interesting history of Korean ancient arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi It is essential to understand before you begin to study the foundations of the modern Korean martial arts that virtually all records of the actual techniques of the ancient Korean martial arts were destroyed by the Japanese forces which occupied the Korean Peninsula from 1909 forward. Many modern Masters of the Korean martial arts falsely claim they can trace the origins of their systems back to the dawn of Korean civilization. Unfortunately, this is historically not the case. There are only two remaining documents: the Moo Yeh Jee Bo and the Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi which give us insight into Korea's martial history. The conflicts between Japan and Korea are not unique to the twentieth century. They have been ongoing for centuries. Between 1592 and 1598 an attempted Japanese invasion of Korea took place. The Japanese invaders were eventual defeated. Near the end of this conflict, a Chinese military text entitled, Ki Hyu Shin Zu, authored by the Chinese military strategist and martial artist, Chuk, Kye Kwang was discovered. The text had been acquired from a slain Japanese General. This manuscript was then presented to Korean King Sun Jo (1567 - 1608). Within its pages was detailed a system of Chinese weapons and hand-to-hand combat, designed specifically for warfare. King Sun Jo was so impressed by the methods presented in this text that he invited Chinese Generals and Chinese Martial Art Masters who employed this system to visit his capital - which they did. From this contact, he ordered one of his Generals, Han Kyo, to take what he had learned from both the text and the demonstrations and design a new system of battlefield combat. This system, written in six chapters, was created and published as, Moo Yeh Jee Bo or The Illustrations of the Martial Arts. This text became the basis for formalized warfare among the Korean military. Within the pages of the text, the techniques of the Sang Soo Do (long sword), Jang Chang (spear), Dang Pa (triple end spear), Kon Bong (long staff), and Dung Pa (shield defense) are outlined. Korean King Yong Jo (1724 - 1776) had the text revised during his reign. Twelve additional approaches to fighting were added. The manual was renamed, Moo Yeh Shin Bo or The New Illustrations of the Martial Arts. The fighting techniques added to the pages employed the Bon Kuk Kum (Korean style straight sword), Wae Kum (Japanese style sword), Jee Dook Kum (Admiral's sword), Yee Do (short sword), Sang Kum (twin swords), Wae Kum (crescent sword) Juk Jang (long bamboo spear), Hyup do (spear with blade), Kee Jang (flag spear), Pyun Kon (long staff with end like a nunchaka), Kyo Jun (combat engagement strategy), and Kwon Bop (hand-to-hand combat). At the direction of the next King of Korea, King Jung Jo (1776 - 1800), in 1790 the Korean military strategists, Yi, Duk Moo and Park, Je Ga again revised the text and added six additional chapters to the manuscript: Ma Sang (combat horsemanship), Ki Chang (spear fighting from horseback), Ma Sang Wol Do (sword fighting from horseback), Ma Sang Sang Kum (twin sword fighting from horseback), Ma Sang Pyun Kon (long staff with shorter end like nunchaka, fighting from horseback), Kyuk Koo (gaming on horseback). The text was retitled, Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi, The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of the Martial Arts. This text is the primary remaining document which modern Korean martial art masters turn to search out their foundational history. The Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi was first published for world consumption, in its original form, over twenty years ago by Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan founder Hwang Kee in this book, Tang Soo Do. It has recently been translated into English. Many people hear of this book believe that it will hold all of the answers to all of their questions on combat. Unfortunately, this is not the case. The techniques presented in this manuscript are extremely limited and the drawings, which depict the maneuvers, are not exacting as they were created several hundred years ago. As a source point for understanding the evolution of Korean history, Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi, is a great text. It was written for a different age, however. As such, it is not the holy grail of martial art manuscripts as some people believe it to be. What you take away from it will be based on your own understanding of the martial arts. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest