Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:35:09 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #113 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. KKW/ITF differences (Rick Clark) 2. Re: A bit of history (Ray Terry) 3. New Hapkidoin (J R Hilland) 4. Re: A bit of history (Donald Pillow) 5. RE: Round House - Ball of Foot (Donald Pillow) 6. KS Hwang, ITF (Ray Terry) 7. Re: KS Hwang, ITF (Donald Pillow) 8. Round House - Ball of Foot (Dennis McHenry) 9. Re: Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi (Jye nigma) 10. RE: Siberian Penguin Bashing - Masters Test (Chris Jones) 11. Ray's Comment on Scott Shaw (Stovall, Craig) 12. Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hello (Master Arce) 13. Charles' Ankle (Stovall, Craig) 14. Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojang Digest group photo (Master Arce) 15. Blackbelt certifications (Charles Richards) 16. Congratulations! (Rudy Timmerman) 17. GM Lim, Hyun Soo seminars (Todd Miller) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Rick Clark" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:56:41 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KKW/ITF differences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi everyone, One of the nice things about horses is you have to go out to the barn and shovel "stuff", so it gives you a chance to think. So - while cleaning a stall this morning I was thinking - "what is the REAL difference between the ITF WTF KKW ATA or any other style of Tae Kwon Do? Ok they will have different forms, that's a given. They may use different terms for techniques. But what is the difference at the bottom line? Do they kick that much different? How about the hand techniques? Are they that much different? Well I should guess they are very similar in most things - so if you get someone who is (for sake of argument) a 3rd dan from one organization and they decided they would go to another school and train. What would be the things they need to "learn" before they are at the 3rd dan level for that particular association? I have been of the opinion for a long time that once you get to 1st dan level you know 90% or more of the system. You have the basic techniques, you know quite a few of the forms, and from what I have seen the major thing you have to do between 1st and 2nd is learn a couple new forms. Sure there will be improvement in the physical skills - that will be just a matter of the extra practice. Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] A bit of history To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:05:18 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Tonight at GM Charles Sereff's gym I saw his 1st dan certificate. It is > dated May 1, 1964, number 6500 from the Moo Duk Kwan, Tang Soo Do > Association and signed by Hwang Kee. It was submitted to the organization by > the US Representative, Chuck Norris. > > BTW, GM Sereff met General Choi in 1966 and converted to the ITF and TKD at > that time. Interesting. Do you know the story behind his first meeting with Gen. Choi? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:24:04 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] New Hapkidoin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain: CONGRATULATIONS on the birth of your daughter and the newest addition to your family! Jere R. Hilland --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Dingodog1@webtv.net (Donald Pillow) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:28:49 -0500 (EST) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] A bit of history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Excellent information, it lends realistic perception to those interested or those who formerly hadn't considered the evolution of Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do. No editorializing, just facts; Thank you. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Dingodog1@webtv.net (Donald Pillow) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:46 -0500 (EST) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Round House - Ball of Foot Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I was a yellow belt in Tang Soo Do, I did a break with the ball of my foot with a roundhouse kick for a demonstration our school performed. It is interesting how the most practical and prevalent way of performing the technique has become the "exception" today in Taekwondo and other styles even though it is STILL most practical except in tournaments. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:37:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] KS Hwang, ITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net February 13, 2004 Dear Members of ITF, My name is Kwang S. Hwang, Secretary General of the ITF. First, I would like to say thank you for continuously supporting the ITF. Today I am writing this letter to you as a senior officer of ITF. Our President, Mr. Chang Ung, is involved in a money pay off scandal. Since Mr. Chang Ung became president of the ITF, the WTF and ITF have made good progress toward the merger of Taekwon-Do and ITFs membership in IOC. We also had great hope and expectations for participation in 2004 Athens Olympic Games. Unfortunately, this hope is now gone. The President of the WTF and an IOC member, Mr. Kim Un Yong, has been arrested by South Korean police, resigned from WTF and Kukiwon and the IOC has suspended his privileges. He has confessed to prosecutors that he paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to ITF President Chang Ung. Mr. Kim and Mr. Chang made a written agreement after the Taekwon-Do merger meeting of August 20, 2003. According to this agreement, South and North Korea planned for form a unified team to participate in 2004 Athens Olympics. I voice my complaints about this unified team. If North Korean team joins South Korea to form a unified team for the Olympics, what will other ITF member countries do? This is not the Founder of Taekwon-do, General Choi Hong Hi's wish. After I made a written complaint to Mr. Chang Ung, he has been silent and the agreement between Mr. Kim and himself has been removed from the ITF official website. I told Mr. Chang that this agreement is in favor of the WTF, but not the ITF and hiding this agreement is deceiving our members. Now the ITF has no hope of joining the Olympic Games, Mr. Chang should come forward and explain this. Mr. Chang Ung has called an Executive Committee meeting to cover up his wrong doings and his involvement in Mr. Kim criminal actions. The ITF has an Executive Committee and a Consultative Committee, and 100% of these members were appointed by Mr. Chang Ung and announced at the June 2003 14th ITF Congress. Mr. Chang Ung also changed the constitution so he may appoint all Vice Presidents of the ITF, and he did appoint them. He as promoted two to 8th degree and two to 9th degree black belts illegally, without discussion with Promotional Committee. In March 2003, I suggested that DPR Korea should collect black belt certificate fees and other certificate fees. Mr. Chang Ung became upset with me and the fees have still not been paid. I have refused to attend this Executive Committee meeting because the Executive Committee can not decide to pardon Mr. Changs wrong doings. I dont trust Mr. Chang Ungs hand picked members at this meeting. The ITF must be free from any politics. We left South Korea 30 years ago because General Choi wanted to be free from political influence. The ITF should be self sufficient. Before I wrote my letter asking for Mr. Chang Ungs resignation, I consulted with Mrs. Choi, Grand Master Rhee, and many ITF senior members and countries. We must begin again merger meetings with WTFs new leadership. We must rebuild our organizations credibility in the martial arts world. We must protect our image with the IOC. We have to save our organization. Mr. Chang Ung must leave the ITF, this is the only way for ITF to be free from political influence. Grand Master Hwang Kwang Sung K- 9 -1 Secretary General, ITF Spokesman, ITF Attachments: January 24, 2004 Letter to Chang Ung August 20, 2003 Letter of Mutual Agreement --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Dingodog1@webtv.net (Donald Pillow) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:49 -0500 (EST) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KS Hwang, ITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Always, always, always trust your first instinct. I thought something didn't smell right with the unfolding of events just before and after Gen. Choi's passing. Does Chang Un have any substantial martial arts experience or just honorary rank within the WTF? Thank you for submitting this bit of info. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:46:20 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] Round House - Ball of Foot Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Master Clark - when I first began TKD we only used the ball of the foot. I remember when I fist saw someone using their instep I thought they just looked really sloppy and weren't doing the kick right. Using the instep gives more reach for point fighting. When I did learn to use my instep, I was able to kick much harder and faster, as I didn't have to worry about getting my toes broken :-) I'd rather use the instep for power kicking. When breaking, I use the ball of my foot, not the instep. Take care, Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:51:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Yeh Do Bok Tong Gi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...I recognized him from some hapkido book, but he was actually the 4th source the other 2 sources were from actual Korean history databases, then 1 was from a school that published excerpts from the moo yeh do bok tong gi, and the last was Mr Shaw. His data seemed to have come from some of the other sources I've found because some of his stuff was word for word the same. *I am right now trying to get in touch with Hatsumi sensei, Tanemura-shoto, to find out some information that may shed ALOT of light on the korean martial arts in the late 1800's early 1900's. Has anyone heard of Kim Kei-mei-a in Korean history? Jye Ray Terry wrote: > Here is one source, scott shaw... Ahh... There is your problem right there. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Chris Jones" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Siberian Penguin Bashing - Masters Test Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:07:48 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Marc, After some stretching and a few warm-up exercised, I decided to take the Master's Challenge. Using some carefully placed explosives and a proper follow-thru on the swing, I think I have done well for myself (1015.1 feet). As always, I offer my proof of qualification for the SPB Master's Hall Of Fame: www.geocities.com/ghodamitt/SPBMastersChallenge.pdf ~Chris >Congratulations Chris on your 1st Dan Black Belt, and to anyone else who >has passed their test. If you feel up to the challenge, you can now try and >test for your Masters level, this is a little rough and messy, so those of >a nervous disposition or anyone who does not like fake-computer generated >penguin blood, should not attempt it. >A distance of over 1000!! will reserve you a place within the SPB Masters >Hall of Fame.. so far my best is only 1030.6 >Marc --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:33:14 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ray's Comment on Scott Shaw Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote in reference to Scott Shaw, <<>> What exactly is the story on Scott Shaw (assuming there is a "story")? He certainly gets enough magazine articles published...or at least he used to. It seems there was a time I couldn't pick up a copy of Black Belt without seeing an article by him. I refer to him as "that blonde-haired, pony-tailed dude, who makes funny faces". Honestly, I don't know much about him, but I've caught enough of a vibe here and other places to figure out he's not the most respected Hapkido player in the universe...at least in most circles. Thoughts, opinions, experiences? As always...enquiring minds want to know. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: Master Arce Subject: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hello To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No Sir. I am not with Dr. Hackworth and his wife. I along with Master Frank Clay and Fabian Duque, were among many scammed by this man. I want no part of him, nor do I want to be associtated with him in ANY way. I love the Korean Martial Arts, and I love this Digest. There are people here who can vouch for me as being a nice person, such as Robert Martin(ITF), Melinda(Chajonshim), and Master Richards(Moja Kwan), just to name a few. Thank you. Peace.... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:42:12 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Charles' Ankle Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Was this due to a recent injury, or a correction for some long-lingering condition? Martial arts related, or caused by something else? CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:47:57 -0800 (PST) From: Master Arce Subject: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojang Digest group photo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.masterssite.com/images/MtrArce.gif TSD Dan # 4061 (Soo Bahk Ki International) TKD Dan # 05170287 (Kukkiwon) HKD Dan # R-782193855 (Yong M. So) Yudo Dan # 342690 (USJA) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:01:02 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Blackbelt certifications Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear list, We started with no belts or formal uniforms, training in effectively shorts, kahkis and/or basically underwear. There were only three or four levels then. 1. Student 1a. A student that might travel away that was "adept" might warrant a letter of introduction to a specific sensei and/or a general letter (basically a "dan" level student) 2. A loyal disciple that had "mastered Sensei's entire system" who would have a letter of introduction stating that fact and/or "permission" to teach that system (basically a master instructor) 3. Founders of kwans/kans that had no rank at all, but most likely a rich lineage ( a kwan jang or Hanshi) or their named successor (Sa Ja Nim) Holding of item #2 generally put you at risk to numerous challenge matches by people who wanted to be #3 Sufice it to say that the numerical symantics of your milepost on the journey are truly meaningless other than just that, you and your instructors own personal mileposts towards short, midrange and lifelong goals and accomplishments. I have two such mileposts that have deep meaning to me. One is signed by my first Tang Soo Do Instructors and GM Shin, Jae Chul representing six years and two styles to finally reach the first landing on the stairs (cho dan) the other is signed by my two good mentors GM West and Master Mac. What they have entrusted me to do with my own students is more meaningfull than the number on that certificate. Powering up my bionic aircast And flameproof body armour, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:31:25 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Congratulations! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Alain: Congratulations on the birth of your newborn. Your friends at NKMAA wish mom, dad, and baby all the best. Warmest personal regards, Rudy W. Timmerman National Korean Martial Arts Association Inc. --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Todd Miller" To: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:04:25 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Lim, Hyun Soo seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Lim, Hyun Soo Hapkido 9th Dan promoted by Doju Nim Choi will be doing 5 seminars over his 10 day trip to the USA, 3/20 - Chicago, 11:00-3:00 Hapkido www.ahahapkido.com 3/23 - Dover,NH 6:30-8:30 Hapkido www.millersmudo.com 3/26 - Athol, MA 6:00-9:00 Guhapdo 3/27 - Feeding Hills, MA 12:00-4:00 Hapkido 3/28 - Feeding Hills, MA 12:00-4:00 Hapkido GM Lim was Doju Nim Choi's longest running student with many years of experience in martial arts. If you are serious about traditional Hapkido these seminars are a must. GM Lim actually teaches the things like off balencing, energy manipulation/ Hapki-sool type techniques. Real interesting stuff! Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions. Take care Todd Miller Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Association --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest