Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:03:18 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #124 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Re: A very interesting site!!! (Jye nigma) 2. Re: {Spam?} Re: [The_Dojang] Supreme Master? and Legitimacy (Jye nigma) 3. Gen. Choi on the Kukkiwon web site? (Christopher Spiller) 4. PATU news (Ray Terry) 5. RE: Korea and just how much they lost (Rick Clark) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Masters_and_legitimacy?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Sport TKD Calendar (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:57:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] A very interesting site!!! To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas Gordon wrote: Just out of curiousity, who was the general's Taekkyon teacher? >I would leery of buying into anything that claims it WAS the “strongest martial art.” This is how things were. There were always competitions fought because someone claimed they had the superior style. *It's funny, asian masters say be humble but when you read history, there were many ego influenced battles, matches, etc. One example is Takamatsu who was said to have journeyed to china to "test" out his skill since there was no one left to test them out on in Japan. lol. In china he fought many matches. But what's interesting is he didn't test out his skills in korea. In Korea he studied 18 korean and chinese arts. hmmmm...that leaves some much room for one to assume things. >Then, next page, there is a claim that it IS the strongest martial art in the world. That’s pretty egotistical. Nothing new about that, the wording is just different then what we typically see, ie., the most comprehensive martial art, the most complete system, etc. >Supposedly they can stare a fella down using KI and read the person’s mind. Also, I've noticed that in asian culture there is alot of embelishment....for instance, one of my teachers lineage is from a grandmaster of shaolin temples and he could whirl a staff so fast that when a bowl of water was thrown at him, the water would never touch him. He used to "spar with a bear". Takamatsu's teacher would sometimes run up trees...lol, Now as far as what is called charming, I believe in that because I have done it. But I can't saw that I have "put someone down" using ki through the eyes. My grandfather actually taught me about charming, and how cats charm birds. I sometimes use this in sparring myself. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:05:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: {Spam?} Re: [The_Dojang] Supreme Master? and Legitimacy To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas Gordon wrote: Mr. Jye, My ancestors were Scottish, Irish, and Native American. Ancestors from Scotland and Ireland don’t make me a European American. Heck, that even sounds funny. I have absolutely no idea how to speak my great grandmother’s Cherokee language. Nor do I know much about their culture. I was born in America and never been to Scotland or Ireland so I certainly can’t claim that I’m anything but American. To each his own, but african american simply shows that I am a descendant of african ancestry. I could say I'm black, but (looking at my skin), that doesn't seem so true...lol. Also, are you not familiar with the term italian american? These people are italian yet american, and in some cases don't speak the italian langauge, yet still identify with the term italian american. But anyhow, let's say I'm african, speak an african tongue. learn TKD add/remove some elements, change all the korean terminology to african, etc etc., would it be deemed legitimately my own system? I think perhaps I am thinking too much about the Japanese 'way' of doing things versus the Korean 'way'. Jye With that said, General Choi, on the other hand, is a full blooded Korean. Born there, grew up there, and even died there. He took a Japanese art and added very solid curriculum that was not found in Karate. Before that, he did study an ancient art from Korea. I don’t know how ancient and I doubt anyone does. A picture on a cave with two monkey’s hitting each other over the head with a club doesn’t exactly give any art a claim to fame. (Unless they were wearing a WTF or ITF uniform...) Best regards, Thomas Gordon Florida _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:43:36 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gen. Choi on the Kukkiwon web site? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Richard Tomlinson wrote: >>I came across Gen Choi's bio on the Kukkiwon web page and was INSTANTLY facinated by him.<< General Choi's bio is on the KUKKIWON website? Since that's the headquarters of Taekwon-Do in South Korea are you sure you don't mean on the ITF web site? If the kukkiwon reference is correct I'd LOVE to see a link! Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:51:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] PATU news Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: All concerned individuals From: Stephen C. Dring Executive-Director, PATU Dr. Cha Sok Park has authorized me and requested me to release the following announcement: Effective March 1, 2004 Dr. Cha Sok Park has resigned as the President of the Pan American Taekwondo Union. The following are excerpts of his letter of resignation to PATU members: Dear Pan American Taekwondo Union Members, I am writing you to submit my resignation from the Pan American Taekwondo Union as President, effective March 1, 2004. I do so with a heavy heart. Service as your President has been a very personally rewarding experience. May I express to all of the PATU members my deep gratitude for your confidence in electing me to serve as PATU President. I feel a great sadness that I will not be here in this capacity working on your behalf to achieve all of our established goals. However, this organization will be in good hands in passing this office to my successor. My resignation as PATU President was a difficult decision that was not approached lightly. Please be assured that the friendships that we have established here in the Pan American Taekwondo Union will be life-long. I ask you for your support of my decision and pledge my continued devotion to all of you and the continued forward progress of PATU. Sincerely, Dr. Cha Sok Park The Pan American Taekwondo Union has formally accepted the resignation of Dr. Park. We wish him well in his future endeavors and thank him for his service to our Union. A General Assembly will be convened as soon as possible to elect the new President of PATU. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korea and just how much they lost Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:26:40 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye, > From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] > > Well, I wonder exactly how much of the martial arts/history manuals from > ancient korea (prior thru 3 kingdoms period) was actually lost? Did the > Japanese just completely blind sight the koreans or was it progressive? In > either situation, I wonder why the Koreans just didn't hide, or secretly > transmit their material. >From my readings of Korean history, the Yi dynasty also known as the Joseon Dynasty, which ran from 1392 - 1910 the military took a back seat to the educated factions. The military was looked down upon and as a result Korea was in a very weakened state and was subject to being taken over by Japan. In fact it was at the time Korea was occupied by Japan Russia had been trying to do the same thing. China was so weak as a country that they were unable to do anything to prevent either Russia or Japan from making a foothold in Korea and their attempt to gain influence and power in China. My point is that Korea was not a place where martial arts would have thrived. > > All throughout the history of martial arts in other lands you hear about > an oppressed people training in certain fighting skills...to do so many > did it in secret, or hidden in what looked like dance or a game. What > happened to the Korean's in this department? My understanding is that the fighting arts were not so much being suppressed but were looked down upon socially by the Koreans themselves. > > Even the africans/african americans during slavery time developed ways of > secret communication through song, hidden training in martial arts from > the motherland in dance, etc. I'm willing to bet that someone somewhere > hid some korean history books, or systems of martial arts, and one day > when this material gets out...boy oh boy...some people will be exposed! Well quite a bit of time has passed and we have not seen it come to public view. You might find some guys who say "this is my family secret martial art - and has been handed down from father to son. My art is Tak Yo Do, and the founder was Whoo Fung Dung, and my most famous student is Sum Dum Gai." "If you want to learn my system you just have to remember the pen is mightier than the sword (hand), and the proper use on a blank check will gain you great knowledge" So if something comes out I'll be glad to see it, but I'll not hold my breath. > > Jye Rick Clark "Illegitimis non carborundum." ("Don't let the bastards grind you down.") -Gen. Joseph Stilwell www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:11:12 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Masters_and_legitimacy?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jye: ".....If I could shoot, make bombs, swim like a fish, etc just like a navy seal, it still wouldn't make me a legit navy seal. It's a process that you have to go through. Even in present day, if someone was a 2nd dan in WTF and created a system from that training, called it something new, and gave themselves the rank of 999th dan, it would not be respected as being legit. why? because they haven't been through the 'process' of receiving rank....." Seems like that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? Martial Arts is a process that many people define as a "Way of Life". CAN some people squeek by without honoring the process? MAY-BE. To my way of thinking that doesn't obviate the need to honor the process to the best of my ability. Maybe people can even make a commercial success on top of cutting corners. Good for them. Personally I don't think there is any endeavor that somebody can't cut corners on, make a bit shoddier, or sell a bit cheaper. For me journey IS the art. As I write this I imagine the difference between a person who trains for a marathon and runs the 26 miles to the best of his ability only to listen to someone brag about how he did the same distance in his car in a fraction of the time. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:39:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sport TKD Calendar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The_Dojang's calendar of Sport Taekwondo Events March 16, 2004 http://MartialArtsResource.com http://the-dojang.net Dates and locations subject to change. 2004 Southwestern AAU Quals March 20 Arlington, Texas Kim's Invitational March 20 Wichita, Kansas Midwest Open Chip March 20 West Des Moines, Iowa Tennessee Junior Olympics March 20 Lebanon, Tennessee General Choi Cup March 21 Sydney, Australia Santa Cruz Open March 22 Aptos, California Dutch Open March 26-28 Eindhoven, Netherlands Ohio AAU Chip March 27 Worthington, Ohio Missouri AAU Chip March 27 Blue Springs, Missouri Colorado AAU Chip March 27 Loveland, Colorado Wisconsin AAU Chip March 27 Mukwonago, Wisconsin Virginia State Chip March 27 Annandale, Virginia New Jersey AAU Chip March 28 Rockaway, New Jersey Massachusetts State Chip March 28 Springfield, Mass PATU Open March Barbados Canadian National Chip April 2-4 Kingston, Ontario Michigan State Chip April 3 Northville, Michigan California AAU State Chip April 3 San Francisco, California Maryland AAU Chip April 3 Waldorf, Maryland New England AAU Quals April 3 Montpelier, Vermont Iowa AAU Quals April 3 Urbandale, Iowa Michigan AAU Quals April 3 Southgate, Michigan German Open April 3-4 Bonn, Germany ITF Viking Cup Int April 3-4 Skovde, Sweden USA ITF Tourny April 3-4 Westfield, Massachusetts SAF Games April 3-6 Islamabad, Pakistan European Team Chip April 10-11 Grenoble, France Ismet Iraz Juniors April 16-18 Istanbul, Turkey Missouri State Chip April 17 Fenton, Missouri Flanders Open April 17 Namur, Belgium California State Jrs (South) April 17-18 Irvine, California Texas State Chip April 17-18 Dallas, Texas ITF Int Comp April 23-25 Wroclaw & Legnica, Poland Minnesota AAU Quals April 24 Maple Grove, Minnesota Middle Atlantic Chip April 24 Conshohocken, Penn Pacific Northwest AAU Quals April 24 Tacoma, Washington Awaken The Dragon AAU Tourny April 24 Cedar Rapids, Iowa 5th TKD Masters Cup April 24-25 Geleen, Netherlands 2nd Olypiad of Cuban Sports April 26-29 Holguin, Cuba California State Jrs (North) May 1 San Francisco, California Maryland Junior Chip May 1 Baltimore, Maryland AAU Sonoma State Open May 1 Sonoma, California Massachusetts AAU Quals May 1 Holyoke, Massachusetts Ozark AAU Quals May 1 Union, Missouri Oregon State Chip May 1 Portland, Oregon Music City Open May 1 Murfeesboro, Tennessee Pennsylvania State Chip May 5 State College, Penn 13th Women's European Senior May 6-9 Lillehammer, Norway 15th European Senior Chip May 6-9 Lillehammer, Norway Virginia State Junior Chip May 8 Fairfax, Virginia Region 2 AAU Chip May 8 Waldorf, Maryland Fajr International May 12-14 Tehran, Iran ITF Jr and Sr European Chip May 14-16 Tampere, Finland Danish Open May 15 Kolding, Denmark Arkansas AAU Quals May 15 Springdale, Arkansas Region 1 AAU Chip May 15 Niskayuna, New York Ohio State Chip May 15-16 Columbus, Ohio Asian TKD Chip May 20-23 Seongnam, Korea ITF Panam Chip May 21-23 Asuncion, Paraguay Fight Fest May 22 Melbourne, Florida 8th Intl Luxembourg Tech Open May 23 Steinfort, Luxembourg Canadian Junior Nationals May 28-30 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia Aruba Open May 29 Santa Cruz, Aruba 8th World University Chip June 2-5 Patra, Greece Moja Kwan Invitational June 5 Roswell, Georgia 5th World Junior Chip June 12-18 Suncheon, Korea Rhode Island Chip June 17 Providence, Rhode Island Friendship TKD Chip June 18-20 Portland, Oregon 4th International Challenger Cup June 26 Herrenberg, Germany Chung Cheong Open July 1-5 ChungCheong, Korea AAU National Taekwondo Chip July 6-10 Ft.Lauderdale, Florida ITF Junior World Chip July 7-10 Riccione, Italy Canada Open July 16-18 Montreal, Canada BTCB British Open July 17 Portsmouth, England Junior Nationals July Atlanta, Georgia AAU Junior Olympic Games Aug 4-7 Des Moines, Iowa 2004 Olympic Games Aug 26-29 Athens, Greece Central American Chip Sept 3-5 San Salvador, El Salvador Champions TKD Oct 2 West Carrollton, Ohio 18th US Martial Arts Chip Oct 2 Youngstown, Ohio Finish Open Oct 9 Turku, Finland Dutch Open Technical Oct 16 Kerkrade, Netherlands ITF Oceania Chip Oct 23-24 Auckland, New Zealand Southeast Asian Games Oct Hochiminh City, Vietnam Yim's TKD Chip Dec 6 Dallas, Texas PanAm Games Dec 6-12 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic 20th Internat. Boeskool Trophy Dec 11 Oldenzaal, Netherlands ITF World Cup Dec Orlando, Florida GTF World Chip TBD Russia 2005 4th East Asian Games TBD Macao, China ITF Senior World Chip TBD Uzbekistan GTF European Chip TBD England 17th (10th Women's) World Chip TBD Madrid, Spain Open Belgium Chip March 4-6 Herentals, Belgium Islamic Solidarity Games April 8-20 Saudi Arabia 23rd Universiade July 16-26 Izmir, Turkey ITF Senior World Chip July 28-31 Dortmund, Germany 17th Maccabia Games July Jerusalem, Israel 23rd Universiade Aug 11-21 Izmir, Turkey 2006 GTF World Chip TBD Puerto Rico European Senior Chip TBD Riesa, Germany 15th Asian Games Dec 11-14 Doha, Qatar World Cup Taekwondo Team Chip TBD Colorado Spgs, Colorado 2007 ITF World Chip May 31-June 3 Quebec, Canada 15th Pan Am Games July 14-19 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 2008 2008 Olympic Games Aug 8-24 Beijing, China Please submit updates, additions, corrections. Ray Terry California Taekwondo and Hapkido http://MartialArtsResource.com The_Dojang, the Internet's discussion forum for Korean Martial Arts http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest